37 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

[color=#959595]You know guys. I know people have conflicting opinions about AMS, but if ya'll really wanted to drive out the damage farmers from Tier 1, you would equip an AMS on your mech. Every missile you knock down is one less point of damage they could have done and more points for you to drive up the average Matchscore. ATMS and clan LRMs are particularly susceptible.[/color]

not really when im using full Radar D and Movement to come in Cover and the missles only hit the Terrain.

[Nesutizale]

Then just stop running and face the rain
Just kidding. Be it AMS or getting into cover or both, it works to deny MS for LRMers.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Nightbird, on 07 July 2020 - 10:51 AM, said:

Then a pilot who destroys both arms, both torsos, a leg, and then the CT earns 6pts, and a pilot who only destroys the CT earns 1pt. Is the former 6x better than the latter? No. The former is worse. MS is somewhere between useless and terrible.

Don’t get me wrong - I am in the WLR camp as the only true and meaningful statistic for determining PSR. My only point was that “components destroyed” is better than “damage” number in indicating what you actually achieved by firing at the enemy. WLR is the only figure of merit that cannot be bent, and if you can bend it - that’s not a foul, that’s the objective of the game!

[Anomalocaris]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 08 July 2020 - 02:04 AM, said:

not really when im using full Radar D and Movement to come in Cover and the missles only hit the Terrain.

Sure, but that won't stop a good ATM pilot. Because he's going to be looking at you/tagging you and shooting from inside 300m.

ATMs in the hands of average pilots are no more dangerous than LRMs. But when facing a decent or better pilot in a ATM VGL, having some AMS around is really, really nice.

[Jman5]

Anomalocaris, on 08 July 2020 - 05:35 AM, said:

Sure, but that won't stop a good ATM pilot. Because he's going to be looking at you/tagging you and shooting from inside 300m.

ATMs in the hands of average pilots are no more dangerous than LRMs. But when facing a decent or better pilot in a ATM VGL, having some AMS around is really, really nice.

Not to mention that AMS not only works for you but also any teammates nearby. Lion share of missiles I'm shooting down is helping my teammates.

Honestly though, speaking as someone who plays not only a 135kph Light mech, but also has full radar deprivation AND AMS, I still get hit with plenty of lock-on missiles. No amount of "get gud" is ever going to change that.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Jman5, on 08 July 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

Not to mention that AMS not only works for you but also any teammates nearby. Lion share of missiles I'm shooting down is helping my teammates.

Honestly though, speaking as someone who plays not only a 135kph Light mech, but also has full radar deprivation AND AMS, I still get hit with plenty of lock-on missiles. No amount of "get gud" is ever going to change that.

Unrelated, but which light is your deathtrap of choice?

[Jman5]

OneTeamPlayer, on 08 July 2020 - 08:02 AM, said:

Unrelated, but which light is your deathtrap of choice?

Small Pulse Laser Firestarter!

[Davegt27]

I am seeing a lot of equal signs in my matches

for zero sum wouldn't you eliminate zero ??

seems going down is a lot harder then reported

[Bowelhacker]

Just remember people: don't play the objectives. That way Tier 5 lies.

[Nesutizale]

Davegt27, on 08 July 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

I am seeing a lot of equal signs in my matches

for zero sum wouldn't you eliminate zero ??

seems going down is a lot harder then reported

From my understanding getting = is the goal. You could either have the same amount of + / - games or =...for the placeing in the Tier it should be the same result....except you are at a border of two tiers. Then + /- means you constantly move up and down while = you would stay.
Still in the end its the goal of the system to move you to a place where you would get equal + / - matches or simply = match results.

Anyway I think it should be rather rare to have = matches. Simply because there needs to be someone else with the same MS as you have, including the win/loss bonus.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

We have no lobbies where you can choose who you play with, so WLR is not a real factor, next game you are with a bunch of -90dmg players, then the next time with Russian elite players who kill everything so quickly that you only see the opponents briefly
I play 100 matches with the same people as for example at Battlefield you have more stable results than every time with 47 random factors

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 09 July 2020 - 02:15 AM.

[martian]

Bowelhacker, on 08 July 2020 - 12:52 PM, said:

Just remember people: don't play the objectives. That way Tier 5 lies.

This exactly.

[Brauer]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 09 July 2020 - 02:13 AM, said:

We have no lobbies where you can choose who you play with, so WLR is not a real factor, next game you are with a bunch of -90dmg players, then the next time with Russian elite players who kill everything so quickly that you only see the opponents briefly
I play 100 matches with the same people as for example at Battlefield you have more stable results than every time with 47 random factors

Over time with truly random teammates your WLR will show your ability to drive wins. As long as teams are truly random and you have enough matches this works fine.

Right now there's an issue with groups in queue because teams are non-random and that messes up the ability of WLR to show individual contributions to wins.

[Nesutizale]

Take out the W/L PSR bonus and you got an indiviual score, no matter if there is a group present.

[pomomojo]

Brauer, on 09 July 2020 - 04:59 AM, said:

Over time with truly random teammates your WLR will show your ability to drive wins. As long as teams are truly random and you have enough matches this works fine.

Right now there's an issue with groups in queue because teams are non-random and that messes up the ability of WLR to show individual contributions to wins.

This statement is true after combining the solo and group queue. It's not unexpected, but can be frustrating as PUG purist. E.g. Brauer has a 14.6 WLR in June, and I clocked in at 0.95 while maintaining >300+ match score. FYI, the trend has been even worse this month. My WLR decreased to 0.86 and my average match score actually increased....

Edited by pomomojo, 09 July 2020 - 04:14 PM.

[Brauer]

pomomojo, on 09 July 2020 - 08:21 AM, said:

This statement is true after combining the solo and group queue. It's not unexpected, but can be frustrating as PUG purist. E.g. Brauer has a 14.6 WLR in June, and I clocked in at 0.95 while maintaining >300+ match score. FYI, the trend has been even worsened this month. My WLR decreased to 0.86 and my average match score actually increased....

Yeah, groups definitely add a LOT of noise to the WLR signal. Given enough time I'd assume that it would balance out and a purely solo account would still show the player's contribution to wins and losses, but if you're dropping in groups at all it'll get odd. I know from experience that you can get a decent WLR dropping solo right now, but I'd also wager that it's basically impossible to hit a 10+ WLR while solo-dropping given a decent number of matches.

Anyway, my feeling is the queue merge is a mess on all levels.

[L1f3H4ck]

Yes, supporting your team strategically hurts your psr if it does not translate into the correct numbers, things like escorting assaults to the front while shooing away thirsty lights. When it come to PSR, the new system has certainly increased the 1v23 factor.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

I myself, for example, mostly fight as a heavy front 'Mech and initially concentrated to the heaviest enemy fire in the vicinity, an unarmed' Mech didn't really interest me then and I happily left the kill to face the next enemy, bad if you then defiled, because the last mech of your own is an LRM launcher without backup, which is done by a one-armed light.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 10 July 2020 - 02:33 AM.