37 replies to this topic

[Vyx]

Monkey Lover, on 10 September 2020 - 11:58 PM, said:

We can thank Paul for putting them in tier3 when they should start in 4. For some time I was thinking they were smurfy accounts but almost everyone does less than 50 dmg.

Really how many of these new people are going to stick around to get smashed over and over until they drop to tier 4?.

Everyone should start in Tier5 IMO. Then new players with even just a little skill would be rewarded with raising up a Tier or two. Might keep them interested.

[Willard Phule]

Vyx, on 11 September 2020 - 09:06 AM, said:

Everyone should start in Tier5 IMO. Then new players with even just a little skill would be rewarded with raising up a Tier or two. Might keep them interested.

But....with the +/-1 tier spread of the matchmaker, the new guys won't be able to be harvested by the T1s, and that is completely unacceptable. One of the reasons new players are started at T3 is so they can experience being stomped by people with years of experience and mechs they can't afford unless they drop real money on the game.

[Black Caiman]

Kiran Yagami, on 05 September 2020 - 10:10 AM, said:

I believe what the stats say over what you vomit onto the forums. It takes only a cursory glance to see that my W/L spiked considerably since the queue merge. My stats are inflated because of it, while most players who don't group on a regular basis have stats that have suffered. What you witness is just in your head.

Thats interesting because I havent noticed a significant change overall. I would say my drop rate now is 50/50 between solo and group queue, but even when it was damn near 100% solo the stats all kind of even out overall. I cant remember exactly when group queue was revitalized, but my last 3 seasons (not including this one) arent significantly different than the 3 prior to that. In fact if you take last season's numbers into account you could say Im trending down. Perhaps that has to do with who people are grouping up with? If you exclusively group up in super teams then Im sure your stats would inflate, but if you drop with more "average" players as well then it probably wont have as dramatic an effect.

[Willard Phule]

Black Caiman, on 11 September 2020 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thats interesting because I havent noticed a significant change overall. I would say my drop rate now is 50/50 between solo and group queue, but even when it was damn near 100% solo the stats all kind of even out overall. I cant remember exactly when group queue was revitalized, but my last 3 seasons (not including this one) arent significantly different than the 3 prior to that. In fact if you take last season's numbers into account you could say Im trending down. Perhaps that has to do with who people are grouping up with? If you exclusively group up in super teams then Im sure your stats would inflate, but if you drop with more "average" players as well then it probably wont have as dramatic an effect.

Various "primetimes" matter. A dynamic you never saw in FP was the whole "matchmaker" thing. Now that groups have been added to QP, "primetime" for some of the time zones dump a LOT of experienced group players into the T1 mix and most of your matches are pretty much T1/T2, with the occasional T3 filler tossed in.

During the slow periods, that whole +/- 1 tier thing gets pushed to it's limit. I'm in Mountain time, and around 0500-0600, I see teams with multiple Cadets in them. Against T1 solos. Heaven forbid there's a 2 or 3 man from an experienced group. Most outcomes during that timeframe are 3-4/12 stomps.

But, honestly, most of us QP denizens learned a long time ago that playing QP to win only ends in frustration.

[Rosarius]

Yeah, it sucks when your side drops light...

[Scout Derek]

Omaha, on 11 September 2020 - 05:21 PM, said:

Hey Willard sorry bro about that match. I get kinda ticked off at times, when I'm forced to play certain ways. Such as play with pre-made groups.(Since a group basically forces you into play their way) Sometimes I'll basically suicide. It's not to tick anyone off. It's just out of frustration. I play and have always played solo queue quick play. Since the beginning.

Guess you can call it, a ******** move. But I dunno I called Faction play with no MM a ********* move. So no offense to anyone if I take out some anger on myself, and jump into the 12v1 fray.

It's a team game though, not a lone wolf game.

I hear MW5 is a mighty fine game to do whatever you want however you want without any outside forces to disturb you.

[Willard Phule]

Scout Derek, on 12 September 2020 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's a team game though, not a lone wolf game.

I hear MW5 is a mighty fine game to do whatever you want however you want without any outside forces to disturb you.

FP may be a team game, but QP has never been. It still isn't. It's 24 random people with random skill levels put into a toilet bowl where some float to the top and others sink to the bottom.

[Beorning]

Willard Phule, on 12 September 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

FP may be a team game, but QP has never been. It still isn't. It's 24 random people with random skill levels put into a toilet bowl where some float to the top and others sink to the bottom.

Play enough matches and it is, great games bad games, it's a gamble.

[Willard Phule]

Beorning, on 12 September 2020 - 04:36 AM, said:

Play enough matches and it is, great games bad games, it's a gamble.

Always been that way. But, now, we have the option of grouping up with 3 other T1s before dropping to face the T3 cadets. Nothing quite like harvesting baby seals that can't orient toward a target.

[Anomalocaris]

Scout Derek, on 12 September 2020 - 04:17 AM, said:

It's a team game though, not a lone wolf game.

I hear MW5 is a mighty fine game to do whatever you want however you want without any outside forces to disturb you.

Such a deceptive argument. Surprised you made it, unless you're being sarcastic. If the latter, please forgive me.

When each team is composed of 12 solos trying to make the best of what the matchmaker gave them starting from the moment the drop begins, it's a relatively fair fight. Each _team_ has the same task and tools. In game comms, random mech and player distribution (within reason), similar weight balance. Whoever adapts better to the cards they draw tends to win (and better players adapt better). It's a team game, composed of 12 players who tend to win more if they work together.

When each team is given a 3-4 man group of players, the deck has the potential of becoming stacked. While cases exist when the pre-made is similar in skill and weight distribution on each side, in a significant number of drops there is a substantial skill difference between the pre-made on each team. It doesn't matter who gets the 3 aces and who gets a multi suit 3,5,8, the fact remains that there is substantial difference and that borks the matchmaker (more so than it already is). And that's before we get into synergistic group drops vs. a team dropping with mechs that don't sync up well.

Trying to justify merging queues with the "it's a team game" argument just doesn't fly.

[R Valentine]

Black Caiman, on 11 September 2020 - 12:17 PM, said:

Thats interesting because I havent noticed a significant change overall. I would say my drop rate now is 50/50 between solo and group queue, but even when it was damn near 100% solo the stats all kind of even out overall. I cant remember exactly when group queue was revitalized, but my last 3 seasons (not including this one) arent significantly different than the 3 prior to that. In fact if you take last season's numbers into account you could say Im trending down. Perhaps that has to do with who people are grouping up with? If you exclusively group up in super teams then Im sure your stats would inflate, but if you drop with more "average" players as well then it probably wont have as dramatic an effect.

Given that it's already established that groups made of poor players have just as much an effect on the match as groups made of superb players, perhaps it is the people you are grouping with. I hardly alter my play style even when grouping. I just feel more confident that my position is secure when I have group mates. And there's a reason I rely on measurable metrics like stats, things that are actually tracked objectively rather than just what I "experience". My experience varies with my mood, so even when I'm playing poorly, if I'm in a good mood it might be tinted with rose colored glasses or the opposite if I'm in a lesser mood. But the stats don't lie. They measure my performance accurately regardless of how I "felt" that performance was.

[Willard Phule]

Omaha, on 12 September 2020 - 12:20 PM, said:

Faction play should of NEVER been a separate thing. Faction play should of been just playing in general. Like quick play is, but instead it was made to cater to a ONE type mentality. And made separate, and now effects others. Faction play dead, leaks over to group queue, group queue dies, now effects quick play. There is a pattern here evolving. IF you ask why I mention faction play, it's because that is when this push for group content started. Also when the game started to go down hill. Also, lone wolfing IS a team tactic. I don't lone wolf either anyways. I try to protect the team I'm assigned usually. But I grow tired of being dictated how to play the game, because I play solo. Which is different then running off in a match and doing my own thing. Loadouts and mech choices effect how people need to position, and frankly play. Take for instance, a grouped 4 man of fleas or another fast mech, Running charging decimating everything. Everyone else can just sit there and look stupid. Maybe I didn't just want to lrm in the back line. But hey at least it was fun for the grouped players right? Because it's those players that REALLY matter right? It's almost comical you tell me to just go play another game. When this is the problem to begin with. Might as well change QP to 4v4. and call it group queue and be done with it.

We saw the same thing happen with FP. Bad decisions lead to driving out population, over and over again. Look back at the last 3 major changes they've made. The "New" FP, the PSR reset that puts new players in the middle of the tier structure, and letting groups into QP because there just aren't enough group players to keep a queue going anymore.

Not one of those changes were designed to make the game more enjoyable or to draw new players in. Not one of them were advertised outside of the internal discussions and many times, done in the standard "what we said isn't exactly what you got" fashion they've done everything.

It almost makes you think they're trying to tank the game enough so they can ditch the servers without causing an uproar among loyal mechwarrior title followers, followed by demands of refunds.

[Solarise]

usually lights and mediums get top kills and damage in a match, i think tonnage wont matter that much.

[martian]

Willard Phule, on 12 September 2020 - 03:05 PM, said:

We saw the same thing happen with FP. Bad decisions lead to driving out population, over and over again. Look back at the last 3 major changes they've made. The "New" FP, the PSR reset that puts new players in the middle of the tier structure, and letting groups into QP because there just aren't enough group players to keep a queue going anymore.

The only logical thing would be to split queues as they were, so that MatchMaker can work with 12 random PUGs on both sides, but I do not think that Russ Bullock will agree with it.

[Slothasaurus]

Solarise, on 25 September 2020 - 03:55 AM, said:

usually lights and mediums get top kills and damage in a match, i think tonnage wont matter that much.

Skill being equal of course tonnage matters. Skill>tonnage but to say tonnage doesn't matter is silly.

[Willard Phule]

martian, on 26 September 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

The only logical thing would be to split queues as they were, so that MatchMaker can work with 12 random PUGs on both sides, but I do not think that Russ Bullock will agree with it.

Incorrect. You're basing that "logical" decision on the premise that PGI wants to keep this game up and running. If you change that parameter, logic changes as well. If the purpose is to drive away as many "veteran" players that remember the history of this title, then the logical choice would be the same one they used for FP. Allow full 12 man premades into QP and thus force all the solo players to join a group, accept being harvested or go to FP where it is safe until the groups come looking for them.

[martian]

Willard Phule, on 26 September 2020 - 10:46 AM, said:

Incorrect. You're basing that "logical" decision on the premise that PGI wants to keep this game up and running.

Surely they want to keep MWO up and running. It is a source of income for them, is not it?

[Willard Phule]

martian, on 27 September 2020 - 12:37 AM, said:

Surely they want to keep MWO up and running. It is a source of income for them, is not it?

One would think, since that's generally part of every business model. The problem is, how does that reconcile with the history of decisions that have brought us to this point? Isn't it more logical to predict PGI following previous decisions based on a history of decisions that have been made versus what the best possible decision would be at any given time? Overall, the history of bad or poorly implemented decisions overwhelmingly outnumber the good ones throughout the history of this particular title. Call it pessimistic, but when someone has a history of making bad decisions, that's where the smart bet will put it's money.