30 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

If MWO is serious about wanting to try to revitalize their game then there are many many things they seriously need to look and and un-do. One of the Top 10 for me is fixing the damn Jenners (And other 35 tonners).

Jenners used to be king and the lights and rightly so, now they are mere garbage and there are many many many many reasons for this.

Agility is absolute crap even with a full Mobility Spec in the tree. These things take forever to turn their Jump Jets don't do crap, and they can not evade to save their life compared to others Further more most mediums and some heavies are actually more maneuverable than a Jenner, that is just wrong on so many levels. The engine desync had a lot to do with this but so also does the reduction in mobility quirks they had.

Armor..... OMFG can we please put the armor back on the ARMS. Whoever made the brilliant decision to take off half the armor from the arms, where 50-100% of their weapons are and put it into the torso's needs to be fired. For years, and I mean years the torso have always been the Achilles heel of the Jenner. The ST hit boxes were changed which made it even easier to core out a Jenner. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that the Jenners wanted or needed or WAS ASKED FOR was a general armor/structure quirk to the torsos. But no, someone decided to take the arms away from the Jenner. This need to revert back. I much rather have the normal torso armor than lose my weapons EVERY DAMN GAME.

Rescale....

Nuff said this is single handedly the biggest nerf to all light mechs we survive by not being seen and not being in the same place for more than a second. With the size we are now is almost impossible to miss us.

CHALLENGE!!!!!!

I would like PGI to post the data of Jenners played vs the rest of the light mechs. I mean seriously I would love to know the number of all mechs being played I know they track it. SO lets see the numbers.

You want to make this game viable again you have a lot of work that needs to be done and you need to UNDO ALOT of the changes you have made in the past.

[TELEFORCE]

I actually liked the armor shift since it makes up for lack of RNG hit locations. I haven't driven Jenners lately, but I rarely hit their arms with direct fire weapons. I think missiles usually miss the arms too.

[KodiakGW]

Darian DelFord, on 03 November 2020 - 08:05 AM, said:

Rescale....

My Sarah’s Jenner shed a tear post rescale. Been sitting in inventory collecting dust ever since. I’d play it every day if they reverse at least that change THIS MONTH.

[LordNothing]

i recently had a lot of fun in my dual uac5 fury. iic and oxide still make great srm divebombers.

they would all benefit from being a tad smaller though.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 November 2020 - 09:35 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The Clan ones need buffed a bit too. Smaller, more nimble.

[Nightbird]

Nothing wrong with the Jenner, at least the 6E and hero variants.

[M R T]

Same goes for the Jagermech. It has the the same armor value on the arms as a 50 tonner. All of its main weaponry are in the arms. If you try to twist you are a weaponless stick. If you meet a semi competent opponent you are a weaponless stick.

[JediPanther]

Can't be said enough so c'n'p:

Armor..... OMFG can we please put the armor back on the ARMS. Whoever made the brilliant decision to take off half the armor from the arms, where 50-100% of their weapons are and put it into the torso's needs to be fired. For years, and I mean years the torso have always been the Achilles heel of the Jenner. The ST hit boxes were changed which made it even easier to core out a Jenner. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that the Jenners wanted or needed or WAS ASKED FOR was a general armor/structure quirk to the torsos. But no, someone decided to take the arms away from the Jenner. This need to revert back. I much rather have the normal torso armor than lose my weapons EVERY DAMN GAME.

Rescale....UNDO DAMIT

JENNERS compared to other 35t lights.

These two are the main reason I mostly quit using them. and Pgi's quirk be damed as well. 15% missile cool down ?! On a Jenner? If I want to lrm I have Catapults,about five of them, to do the same job. 15% ml laser burn duration too much on the F?

My panther's have 40-48 arm armor for crying out loud. Urb has 50-ish. The lcts and fle have mostly replaced jenners. Yet which mech still gets the must nerf op cry the most? fle-20? fle-17? lct-pb? com 2-d? Wrong!

[VonBruinwald]

Morte Nilsum, on 03 November 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

Same goes for the Jagermech. It has the the same armor value on the arms as a 50 tonner. All of its main weaponry are in the arms. If you try to twist you are a weaponless stick. If you meet a semi competent opponent you are a weaponless stick.

I don't mind it on the Jager, if you build for sustained DPS (4x/6x lbx2s) it turns into a beast. Not every mech needs to be alpha-twist-alpha-twist-alpha-twist.

Unfortunately the Jenner doesn't have the inital tonnage to mount enough armour for a stare-down-build to be viable.

Same deal with the Stalker, if you build for a stare down and wiggle that nose rather than twist it can tank with the best of them.

[LordNothing]

JediPanther, on 03 November 2020 - 03:02 PM, said:

Can't be said enough so c'n'p:

Armor..... OMFG can we please put the armor back on the ARMS. Whoever made the brilliant decision to take off half the armor from the arms, where 50-100% of their weapons are and put it into the torso's needs to be fired. For years, and I mean years the torso have always been the Achilles heel of the Jenner. The ST hit boxes were changed which made it even easier to core out a Jenner. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that the Jenners wanted or needed or WAS ASKED FOR was a general armor/structure quirk to the torsos. But no, someone decided to take the arms away from the Jenner. This need to revert back. I much rather have the normal torso armor than lose my weapons EVERY DAMN GAME.

Rescale....UNDO DAMIT

JENNERS compared to other 35t lights.

These two are the main reason I mostly quit using them. and Pgi's quirk be damed as well. 15% missile cool down ?! On a Jenner? If I want to lrm I have Catapults,about five of them, to do the same job. 15% ml laser burn duration too much on the F?

My panther's have 40-48 arm armor for crying out loud. Urb has 50-ish. The lcts and fle have mostly replaced jenners. Yet which mech still gets the must nerf op cry the most? fle-20? fle-17? lct-pb? com 2-d? Wrong!

i not really as disturbed at the reduced arm armor than most, especially on is jenners. st xl engine hit is going to screw with your day more than losing some guns and people are going to be aiming at that torso more than the arms, that's just the generally accepted best way to kill a jenner. so thats where id rather the armor buffs be.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 November 2020 - 04:18 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

TELEFORCE, on 03 November 2020 - 08:35 AM, said:

I actually liked the armor shift since it makes up for lack of RNG hit locations. I haven't driven Jenners lately, but I rarely hit their arms with direct fire weapons. I think missiles usually miss the arms too.

Welp you need to drive one now. I can assure you, when I see a Jenner I target the arms first. They can not take even the weakest of alpha's out there before 50% of your weapons are gone. I mean my locust has more armor in its arms.

Nightbird, on 03 November 2020 - 01:53 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with the Jenner, at least the 6E and hero variants.

They all suffer from the same problem.

JediPanther, on 03 November 2020 - 03:02 PM, said:

Can't be said enough so c'n'p:

Armor..... OMFG can we please put the armor back on the ARMS. Whoever made the brilliant decision to take off half the armor from the arms, where 50-100% of their weapons are and put it into the torso's needs to be fired. For years, and I mean years the torso have always been the Achilles heel of the Jenner. The ST hit boxes were changed which made it even easier to core out a Jenner. The only thing, and I mean the only thing that the Jenners wanted or needed or WAS ASKED FOR was a general armor/structure quirk to the torsos. But no, someone decided to take the arms away from the Jenner. This need to revert back. I much rather have the normal torso armor than lose my weapons EVERY DAMN GAME.

Rescale....UNDO DAMIT

JENNERS compared to other 35t lights.

These two are the main reason I mostly quit using them. and Pgi's quirk be damed as well. 15% missile cool down ?! On a Jenner? If I want to lrm I have Catapults,about five of them, to do the same job. 15% ml laser burn duration too much on the F?

My panther's have 40-48 arm armor for crying out loud. Urb has 50-ish. The lcts and fle have mostly replaced jenners. Yet which mech still gets the must nerf op cry the most? fle-20? fle-17? lct-pb? com 2-d? Wrong!

Saying it again!

LordNothing, on 03 November 2020 - 04:17 PM, said:

i not really as disturbed at the reduced arm armor than most, especially on is jenners. st xl engine hit is going to screw with your day more than losing some guns and people are going to be aiming at that torso more than the arms, that's just the generally accepted best way to kill a jenner. so thats where id rather the armor buffs be.

Once again all the community wanted back in the day was a ST and CT armor/structure quirk. But PGI thinking they know what they are doing did this change after so many other horrid changes.

The problem your not seeing, is most jenners prior to this could take an alpha to the ST and still keep breathing. This is simply not the case with the arms, one alpha from a locust or even a flea could remove your weapons. Tell me on what other mech THAT can happen to.

[Y E O N N E]

VonBruinwald, on 03 November 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

I don't mind it on the Jager, if you build for sustained DPS (4x/6x lbx2s) it turns into a beast. Not every mech needs to be alpha-twist-alpha-twist-alpha-twist.

Unfortunately the Jenner doesn't have the inital tonnage to mount enough armour for a stare-down-build to be viable.

Same deal with the Stalker, if you build for a stare down and wiggle that nose rather than twist it can tank with the best of them.

I can blow off your Jager's arm armor before you even clear whatever terrain you are emerging from before you get to fire with only a modest alpha. Congrats, now you get to spend the match attempting to baby that arm with a 'Mech that relies on sustained exposure to work and which has guns making those arms hilariously large and easy to hit.

Stalker is far less egregious' the arms don't get bigger when weapons are mounted, there's still decent armor on them, and they are harder to shoot than a Jager.

[Nightbird]

Darian DelFord, on 03 November 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

They all suffer from the same problem.

Well, we have a difference of opinion, where do we go from here?

[JediPanther]

LordNothing, on 03 November 2020 - 04:17 PM, said:

i not really as disturbed at the reduced arm armor than most, especially on is jenners. st xl engine hit is going to screw with your day more than losing some guns and people are going to be aiming at that torso more than the arms, that's just the generally accepted best way to kill a jenner. so thats where id rather the armor buffs be.

So you don't get mad when even one 20 dmg hit blows off 50% of your weapons? Ok. I'd rather have ARM armor even just at 24 which the raven has which also loses a vast amount of fire power when that arm side is gone. Hell even the Javlin a mech 5 tons lighter gets 6 more armor on its arms. F that. Even a comando gets 2 more armor over the Jenner.

Edited by JediPanther, 03 November 2020 - 07:44 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Nightbird, on 03 November 2020 - 01:53 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with the Jenner, at least the 6E and hero variants.

Nightbird, on 03 November 2020 - 07:11 PM, said:

Well, we have a difference of opinion, where do we go from here?

Welp first off, there is no Jenner 6E. Unless 6E = 6 Energy weapons.

No one, and I mean no one can argue the Jenner K.

Assuming you mean 6E = equals the Jenner F and and IIC-A, again 100% of their weapons are in their arms. Again any pilot that has been around as long as we have knows to take out the arms. Pretty simple.

The Hero's come with their own issue, At least only 25% of their weapons are in their arms. But still does not cure the other problems that plague all Jenners as noted above.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 03 November 2020 - 07:47 PM.

[LordNothing]

JediPanther, on 03 November 2020 - 07:43 PM, said:

So you don't get mad when even one 20 dmg hit blows off 50% of your weapons? Ok. I'd rather have ARM armor even just at 24 which the raven has which also loses a vast amount of fire power when that arm side is gone. Hell even the Javlin a mech 5 tons lighter gets 6 more armor on its arms. F that. Even a comando gets 2 more armor over the Jenner.

that's part of the game, why would i get mad? better to lose an arm than part of your xl engine. unless you are one of those oddballs that runs an std or lfe in a light.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 November 2020 - 08:09 PM.

[Nightbird]

Darian DelFord, on 03 November 2020 - 07:46 PM, said:

Welp first off, there is no Jenner 6E. Unless 6E = 6 Energy weapons.

No one, and I mean no one can argue the Jenner K.

Assuming you mean 6E = equals the Jenner F and and IIC-A, again 100% of their weapons are in their arms. Again any pilot that has been around as long as we have knows to take out the arms. Pretty simple.

The Hero's come with their own issue, At least only 25% of their weapons are in their arms. But still does not cure the other problems that plague all Jenners as noted above.

I don't experience this issue of which you speak.

[jjm1]

My thoughts on the mechs I use:

JR7-F: I bring it out a lot, and it can do good numbers. It's real awkward if forced to fight other lights that have better hitboxes though.

JR7-K: One of PGIs jokes. I actually don't use it. Nobody does.

JR7-IIC-A: I used to run it with a big engine, JJs and smalls - on paper it's a rough analog to a JR7-F with meds, in reality, it's worse in every possible way, even heat. Now I just run it with 6 MPLs and heatsinks and hang around the big boys like an Adder.

JR7-IIC-2: all the JJs and 4 heavy meds. Bit of a meme for the JJs. Also JJ + double artillery, which is the real secret to damage farming.

Fury: I run this with a UAC-20, 5 machine guns and two smalls. It's fun when the UAC RNG isn't rolling FUs.

[VonBruinwald]

Miss Greene, on 03 November 2020 - 07:08 PM, said:

I can blow off your Jager's arm armor before you even clear whatever terrain you are emerging from before you get to fire with only a modest alpha. Congrats, now you get to spend the match attempting to baby that arm with a 'Mech that relies on sustained exposure to work and which has guns making those arms hilariously large and easy to hit.

That sounds like a challenge

Jagers arms are high mounted and have a narrow frontal profile (unless you're lurming). If you're picking those things off at 1000m kudos. Meanwhile you're caught in the open, no cover and red-lining after your second alpha...

[Bistrorider]

jjm1, on 03 November 2020 - 10:01 PM, said:

Fury: I run this with a UAC-20, 5 machine guns and two smalls. It's fun when the UAC RNG isn't rolling FUs.

After few tries with Fury (mguns, flamers/ ac2, mguns/ even gauss build) I also did UAC-20 and two tiny lasers. You added mguns, so you run on XL engine.

It's funny till you have ammo.