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Low Cost Game Update Suggestions


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#41 Nightbird

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:50 AM

View PostBelorion, on 14 October 2020 - 06:48 AM, said:

I asked in another thread and you didn't answer. Do you have the sample data? Are you comparing whether an individual player has a high match score in a particular match they win?


Link me to your question or give it a bump.

#42 Belorion

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:52 AM

You could just answer here. The other question was on the discord channel.

Edited by Belorion, 14 October 2020 - 06:53 AM.


#43 Nightbird

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 06:54 AM

Post your questions here: https://mwomercs.com...cy-with-graphs/

I haven't used that discord for more than 1 day 4 months ago.

#44 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 06:36 AM

added #5

#45 The6thMessenger

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 07:01 AM

Hmm, new weapons maybe? Balance-Wise, we can just buff existing underperforming weapons and mechs, and that would give them better value. But my issue is that, well, there are still flexibility issues that hold mechs back, particularly the lights.

Here are some weapon concepts.

Quote


Capacitor PPCs
Spoiler


PPCs are generally hot garbage, and it does not help that lights are tonnage-starved. The LPPCs that which supposed to be for them, are just too damn anemic to use versus the usual ERMLs on their very own class.

The PPC Capacitor may prove problematic with the balance. While techincally PPCs here are mostly hot garbage, the PPC-Cap will instead may out right reduce the usability of PPCs because they are just so light weight.

To balance this, it comes with some caveats, that it instead requires charge-time to shoot much like the gauss, and has reduced GH limit. While the LPPC can now fire from 15 to 20 alpha damage, the opposite is true to the other PPCs, what used to be 20 alpha is now down at 15, and the HPPC from 30 to 20 instead.

This GH limit reduction is specifically geared towards heavier mechs.

Binary Laser
Spoiler


While IS mechs got their ERMeds, the Clans got their Heavy Lasers instead, which just tipped the balance even more with the high-alpha that the players can do.

To even the odds, we can add Binary Lasers as the 4th Laser-Level for the IS instead. Basically like 2 Large-Lasers, DPS wise, but it has . Unlike Clans however, the Binary Lasers instead are heavy, quite heavy, and alpha-wise, you are better off with two Large-Lasers anyways.


LACs

Quote

Spoiler


LACs sadly were missed. These are AWESOME weapon systems that could have been added. Yes, quite frankly they can break balance quite a bit. While they will allow Lights to have a bit of Ballistic punch when they generally do not have the tonnage for it, simply the heavier mechs could load them up anyways.

The Mauler that usually struggles 6x AC5, or the Anni that is built for it, both of which are just assaults. With the LAC5 at 5 tons, this means that 6x LAC5 can be easily achieved, that something like a Jagermech that normally couldn't properly boat 6 AC5s with ease, they can now bring 6 LAC5s for the same alpha if not same DPS, because they can already wield two Gauss Rifles.

This is a problem, especially with balance. That is why the LACs, while offers build flexibility by being smaller and lighter, they instead have increased CDs, reduced range, reduced velocity, and fires in burst -- in other words, less ergonomic by comparison. You can still use AC5s for their range and single-slug.


MagShot

Quote

Spoiler


Gauss, the LGR, and the HGR are generally unnatainable to lights, the HGR in particular. Well you can technically put those in SOME lights, but never in any serious capacity.

The MagShot, can offer a good alternative for tonnage-stricken lights. It does horrendous DPS, and has extremely high CD for the duration it has, as well as shorter ranged and has low projectile speed. But it is a good gauss alternative.

Versus MGs, it will NOT CRIT AS MUCH, so the LMG and the MG still has their niche, as well as superior DPS.[/spoiler]


Arrow IV

Quote

Spoiler


So how do you balance this one? LRMs, ATMs, and SSRMs are already percieved to be unfair by some, and can be frustrating to play (improperly) against, and now you want to add it? That depends on how you intend to use this.

How it works:
- Does not use Missile Lock
- Woks like slow and more-vulnerable AC20
- Can be Steered by TAG

Without TAG -- rather dumb-fired, its basically like a super long-range AC20 with splash-damage. But while that sounds like a good thing, remember that it is still at 500m/s, and at 1000m, that will take 2 seconds worth of lead.

TAG is required to use this properly, and unlike LRMs, it's not autoaim, rather the TAG is used to steer the missile manually through the air. That means to IDF this, you need to aim up, and then make it arc manually. Once TAGGed, it will home properly like any other homing weapons.

Direct-Hit deals 20 damage, but it also deals additional 10 damage around 45m of the impact, and this 10 damage is spread among the 6 components when front-facing, 3 components when side-facing.


Thumper Artillery Piece

Quote

Spoiler


Much like the AIV, this is geared for Artillery use. But unlike the AIV that requires TAG, this instead uses IDF like LRMs, like SSRMs require lock, but Thumper only provides an adequate lead, this means that the enemy could shake the shell off simply by moving. At 270m, the Thumper won't fire.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 October 2020 - 06:21 PM.


#46 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 07:47 AM

The Light AC and Binary laser can probably be done without new art assets, and shouldn't be too hard to balance. The rest either require new assets or be a balancing nightmare or both. Magshot is basically a 0.5 ton AC2. A PPC+capacitor has to be balanced against a HPPC standalone. Arrow IV and Thumper is probably impossible because new art and mech retrofit would be needed.

#47 Willard Phule

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 08:10 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 15 October 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

Hmm, new weapons maybe? Balance-Wise, we can just buff existing underperforming weapons and mechs, and that would give them better value. But my issue is that, well, there are still flexibility issues that hold mechs back, particularly the lights.

Here are some weapon concepts.



LACs


MagShot


[size=6]Arrow IV


[size=6]Thumper Artillery Piece


How about AP Gauss?

#48 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 09:35 AM

View PostWillard Phule, on 15 October 2020 - 08:10 AM, said:

How about AP Gauss?


Basically a 0.5 ton LBX3. Same issue with the Magshot... need new art asset and mech refit, and rather hard to balance stat-wise. I'd be OK if they reused the MG art for Magshot and AP gauss to avoid a refit but it would probably be below PGI's art standard.

Edited by Nightbird, 15 October 2020 - 09:39 AM.


#49 LordNothing

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 09:53 AM

View PostNightbird, on 15 October 2020 - 07:47 AM, said:

The Light AC and Binary laser can probably be done without new art assets, and shouldn't be too hard to balance. The rest either require new assets or be a balancing nightmare or both. Magshot is basically a 0.5 ton AC2. A PPC+capacitor has to be balanced against a HPPC standalone. Arrow IV and Thumper is probably impossible because new art and mech retrofit would be needed.


arty would be really op in mwo. it seems pgi has gone out of their way to avoid aoe weapons other than consumables. which is unfortunate because aoe weapons in games are historically really fun.

arrow might work if you make the ammo take up 3 slots and dont do half ton. the weapon itself is 15 slots, and without crit splitting would be impossible to implement as in tt. knocking it down to 12 slots would limit it to torso sections only with an std engine. so the weapon and the first ton of ammunition now take 15 slots. this way it can be really strong but very ammo limited. limiting the weapon to st positions only minimizes the number of retrofits needed (this might be why they decided to do an 11 slot is lb20).

make an exception for the cplt-c3 by removing the shoulder and upper arm actuator and setting the arm range of motion to zero, thus simulating crit spliting. might also count as a buff because the catapult has become a very flimsy platform for anything having been powercreeped into oblivion and getting a pair of big aoe weapons might help that. hell i would even be cool if only the cplt-c3 supported the weapon as fixed equipment, and thats something you can sell for just the novelty (or do a pack of 4 arrow iv variants of existing chassis).

i wouldn't do any of the mech ballistic artillery. but maybe mech mortars. sort of a mini artiliary that can arc over hill, sort of an indirect ballistic. but that poses a retrofit problem.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 October 2020 - 10:04 AM.


#50 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 09:57 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 15 October 2020 - 09:53 AM, said:



You bring up a good point. If certain new weapons were added only to one or a few mech variants, it can limit the cost of retrofitting and also add the revenue possibility of a mechpack. Two birds with one arrow.

#51 LordNothing

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 10:06 AM

View PostNightbird, on 15 October 2020 - 09:57 AM, said:

You bring up a good point. If certain new weapons were added only to one or a few mech variants, it can limit the cost of retrofitting and also add the revenue possibility of a mechpack. Two birds with one arrow.


cheap variants with fixed equipment for a few bucks a pop. you could do a whole set of theme packs. like a periphery pack, crappy armor and you are stuck using rifle and rocket launchers (maybe come with huge bonuses since they would be intentionally bad). or a solaris pack with solaris weapons (and acc bonuses).

maybe also revision trial mechs. trial mechs go in your inventory, and can be leveled or small adjustments made (like armor or ammo), but everything is fixed. each time new trials come up they get added to the inventory (you can keep the old ones). this would enable new players to be able to compete a little better while they work on getting their own mechs. wouldnt make money directly but if it helps retain new players it is good for the game in the long run.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 October 2020 - 10:22 AM.


#52 VonBruinwald

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 10:14 AM

View PostNightbird, on 15 October 2020 - 09:57 AM, said:

add the revenue possibility of a mechpack


Why not sell it as an IS weapons pack?


4x LAC2
4x LAC5
4x Binary Lasers
4x Bombasts

$10 for the set or $5 a la carte, I'd seriously consider that, sure it'll be free (and nerfed, sorry, "balanced") in 6 months but until then PGI get a few $$$ and we get a few new toys. Throw in a new warhorn for good measure and you got a winner.

#53 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 10:31 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 15 October 2020 - 10:14 AM, said:

Why not sell it as an IS weapons pack?


Depends on if the sales system can handle it. It's also harder to balance. If it involves art assets, fitting it on 1 mech variant is 1000x easier than fitting it on 1000 variants.

Edited by Nightbird, 15 October 2020 - 10:49 AM.


#54 LordNothing

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:14 AM

we could restructure the way mc and premium time works.

stop giving away mc in events.

more mc/premium time in supply caches, enough to whet their appetites (right now they are extremely rare).

premium time now grants mc victory pay at a rate of 1/10th match score, but only if your team wins.

5mc victory pay for heroes (im a little biased here as i have 55 of them).

more premium time options, including bankables. selling bankable 1/3/7 day packs, or bundles of same. like get 10 1-day bankables for $12. or 10 3-day bankables for $15 (call it a weekend warrior pack).

increase premium time bonuses to 2x. extend bonuses to solaris (acc) and fp (rp/lp) and decreses grind for supply caches.

special mc grinder items grant 1mc per game mc reward (they might stack, maybe you get a 1mc bonus for each additional item such if you have 2, you get 3 mc and if you have 3 you get 5mc). might sell them in packs of 12 exclusively in the store.

restructure mechpacks to include above (doesn't apply retroactively). might also come with new cash only content like variant packs or weapon packs.

add mc-only weapon and equipment variants as an mc sink. only small *** for tat tweaks (such as range for heat or shot count for velocity), or cosmetic only (purple lasers!). no p2w, no retrofits.

encourage first time buy-in with a huge bonus pack (only available once). pack of premium goodies including but not limited to mc, premium time, mech bays, skins, colors, weapons, consumables, dekkles, boltons, cockpit items (including mc grinders), perhaps a free hero and champion mech. people who already bought stuff might also get this retroactively, or it would be available upon a new purchase.

friend referral bonuses (especially viable now that teams are allowed in qp). might help population.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 October 2020 - 11:28 AM.


#55 Nightbird

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:18 AM

There's nothing wrong with discounting existing prices (increasing is a non-starter) but the opportunity to generate revenue through discounts is extremely limited at this point in the product life-cycle. I don't think the additional revenue generated through a pricing model revamp can offset even the small amount of work needed.

Edited by Nightbird, 15 October 2020 - 11:18 AM.


#56 LordNothing

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 11:32 AM

View PostNightbird, on 15 October 2020 - 11:18 AM, said:

There's nothing wrong with discounting existing prices (increasing is a non-starter) but the opportunity to generate revenue through discounts is extremely limited at this point in the product life-cycle. I don't think the additional revenue generated through a pricing model revamp can offset even the small amount of work needed.


saw it more trying to sweeten the deal for store purchases. i think id play more if i could grind mc to finish my hero collection, and i would definately buy the grinder items. the initial buy-in bonus might encourage the f2p crowd to buy something. if that leads to further development then its worth it as a means to implement some of the other low cost features proposed here.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 October 2020 - 11:33 AM.


#57 maxdest

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 01:24 PM

1) Decrease the time to load mech lab , and therefore between matches.
- Perhaps locally cache the data needed for the mech lab.(update server when saved mech)
- Or using pictures of mechs (instead of engine renders)
Doesnt affect core engine , so should be doable without the spagheti.

2) Randomise drop points for teams (but still grouped) , and spread them around map.
- More variety of games / maps

3) Remove all game modes except Skirmish from quickplay
- other modes pointless

4) Add a new FFA solaris mode
- bodge this by:
- turning off all targeting and banning weapons that need it
- maximum of 12 people (actually just one team)
- but with a generator requires kill for victory which remains covered (like Faction play) until just one player left and game over when it is destroyed (or after 10 mins)
- Have scores tweaked so that team kills and team damage are +ve, and big bonus for killing generator (i.e. last mech alive)
- Congratulate me on hacking the game code to deliver the solaris people actually wanted.

Edited by maxdest, 15 October 2020 - 01:37 PM.


#58 Horseman

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 02:42 PM

View Postmaxdest, on 15 October 2020 - 01:24 PM, said:

- Or using pictures of mechs (instead of engine renders)
Already are, they're cached locally on your machine and only updated when you change the loadout.

#59 The6thMessenger

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 03:13 PM

View PostNightbird, on 15 October 2020 - 07:47 AM, said:

The Light AC and Binary laser can probably be done without new art assets, and shouldn't be too hard to balance. The rest either require new assets or be a balancing nightmare or both. Magshot is basically a 0.5 ton AC2. A PPC+capacitor has to be balanced against a HPPC standalone. Arrow IV and Thumper is probably impossible because new art and mech retrofit would be needed.


But do you really have to make custom assets on launch? Seems like something they could do on the course of a year or two. It's the experience that what matters. When Civil War launched, only a few mechs were retrofited, and it didn't took away from the experience.

Do you honestly notice the weapons immediately? So far the only weapon I look at visually is the Gauss, and so far I don't really notice the rest.

Placeholder could be used for the moment. The Thumper would use AC20, the Arrow-IV would use NARC, the LACs would use respective calibers, and the Magshot will use LGR.

#60 LordNothing

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 04:34 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 15 October 2020 - 03:13 PM, said:


But do you really have to make custom assets on launch? Seems like something they could do on the course of a year or two. It's the experience that what matters. When Civil War launched, only a few mechs were retrofited, and it didn't took away from the experience.

Do you honestly notice the weapons immediately? So far the only weapon I look at visually is the Gauss, and so far I don't really notice the rest.

Placeholder could be used for the moment. The Thumper would use AC20, the Arrow-IV would use NARC, the LACs would use respective calibers, and the Magshot will use LGR.


all lasers and small missiles could use the existing systems. ballistics could probably make due with current models in most cases (lac). only real standouts are artillery weapons which are angled up and not pointed forward or large missile systems like arrow iv.

it does not preclude variants of existing weapons either. there is a lot you can do without any retrofits at all.





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