22 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Currently Match Score is heavily heavily weighted towards damage. Last I recall almost half of MS is damage.

The problem with this fiasco is a light mech with a 20 point alpha at less than 150 meters can not compete with an assault who can dish out a 100+ alpha at 500+ meters.

Easy fix, adjust the match score damage calculation to account for tonnage.

[JediPanther]

Adjusting it for weight would be nice. Did nearly 500 dmg in a 3l with 3 kills and only get 400 ms. During events I just go the ams boat on lights or go meh into a lrm catapult to do damage padding for ms. Makes the game boring and frustrating as hell with everyone out in their most meta-dmg stat padding builds.

I have nearly 35-37 lights unused while my two 3ls and lct-pb see the most use. Some times I look at the jenners and go meh. For events go meta or don't bother.

[dario03]

By how much though?

[Darian DelFord]

JediPanther, on 21 October 2020 - 07:41 PM, said:

Adjusting it for weight would be nice. Did nearly 500 dmg in a 3l with 3 kills and only get 400 ms. During events I just go the ams boat on lights or go meh into a lrm catapult to do damage padding for ms. Makes the game boring and frustrating as hell with everyone out in their most meta-dmg stat padding builds.

I have nearly 35-37 lights unused while my two 3ls and lct-pb see the most use. Some times I look at the jenners and go meh. For events go meta or don't bother.

I hear you on the unused lights.... I am normally only in a flea or a locust, most of the others are crap for output and survive-ability. There are exceptions but very few.

dario03, on 21 October 2020 - 07:46 PM, said:

By how much though?

Well the way I look at it.....

An assault mech that does 600 points of damage vs a light mech that does 600 points of damage should NOT be scored the same.

This is an easy fix and one that we have been asking for since its inception. I mean hell.... a Locust 1V only has 1 energy slot. In a flea I am routinely in the enemies backside or face at less than 150 meters. With 23 other mechs shooting at you (Yes I count Team Mates in that Friendly Fire is a thing) It is very difficult for most lights to compete against a 100 point alpha in regards to the match Score.

Something to the affect of a 50% boost for Lights.....30% for Mediums..... 15% for Heavies and nothing for assaults. Or something.


Also Arties and Air Strikes need to be reworked. My gawd that amount that are dropped during a match is ridiculous and half the time you do not even know its there. They wreck light mechs while hardly doing anything to heavies and assaults.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 21 October 2020 - 08:11 PM.

[dario03]

Darian DelFord, on 21 October 2020 - 08:08 PM, said:

I hear you on the unused lights.... I am normally only in a flea or a locust, most of the others are crap for output and survive-ability. There are exceptions but very few.




Well the way I look at it.....

An assault mech that does 600 points of damage vs a light mech that does 600 points of damage should NOT be scored the same.

This is an easy fix and one that we have been asking for since its inception. I mean hell.... a Locust 1V only has 1 energy slot. In a flea I am routinely in the enemies backside or face at less than 150 meters. With 23 other mechs shooting at you (Yes I count Team Mates in that Friendly Fire is a thing) It is very difficult for most lights to compete against a 100 point alpha in regards to the match Score.

Something to the affect of a 50% boost for Lights.....30% for Mediums..... 15% for Heavies and nothing for assaults. Or something.


Also Arties and Air Strikes need to be reworked. My gawd that amount that are dropped during a match is ridiculous and half the time you do not even know its there. They wreck light mechs while hardly doing anything to heavies and assaults.

I think that would be to high. Jarls adjusts match score for the weight classes and does ~-4% for mediums, ~-5% for heavies, and ~-9% for assaults, with plus ~9% to lights. Something like that or shifted to just positives for everything but assaults that still works out to that would probably be enough.

[Monkey Lover]

Taking dmg away will hurt lights more than most mechs. They're almost always topping for what I have seen. Of course they're not runnine 20 dmg mechs in my games more like 6xmPl lol

[Dr Wubs]

I have zero interest in PSR while groups rule QP.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i think they are more talking about match score because often events have match score requirements that are harder to meet in a light (i don't play lights other than my annoyance Urbie (1 ER PPC, 3 MGs, and a pair of MLs). though i do think the lights and mediums need some love when it comes to match score. the problem is you have mechs like the Piranha that can really dish out damage and are so fast you can hardly hit them if the pilot is decent (anything over about 110 kph gives me a headache though if i'm piloting)

[Solarise]

lights need a buff to beat assaults easier

[JediPanther]

Solarise, on 23 October 2020 - 07:47 AM, said:

lights need a buff to beat assaults easier

They need their size reduced from being made into balloon sized targets the most. Watch the mwo rescale video on youtube and see how many lights were made larger. Most can't even do 40 alpha unless clan. When the dire whale came into the game I used an anti-direwhale build on the oxide which could two-shot a whale from the back. I called it the harpoon build. now it's just another casualty of power creeps and nerfs into useless. Dhrg meta rules the game now while a kgc can't even fire dual ac 20s stock without massive heat spike.

[Darian DelFord]

dario03, on 21 October 2020 - 08:19 PM, said:

I think that would be to high. Jarls adjusts match score for the weight classes and does ~-4% for mediums, ~-5% for heavies, and ~-9% for assaults, with plus ~9% to lights. Something like that or shifted to just positives for everything but assaults that still works out to that would probably be enough.

those were just place holders that I suggested. Based on the ease most heavies and assaults have at doing damage.

Monkey Lover, on 21 October 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

Taking dmg away will hurt lights more than most mechs. They're almost always topping for what I have seen. Of course they're not runnine 20 dmg mechs in my games more like 6xmPl lol

Any light that runs 6MPL's is seriously over heating.

Solarise, on 23 October 2020 - 07:47 AM, said:

lights need a buff to beat assaults easier

not really and not what this thread is about.

JediPanther, on 23 October 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

They need their size reduced from being made into balloon sized targets the most. Watch the mwo rescale video on youtube and see how many lights were made larger. Most can't even do 40 alpha unless clan. When the dire whale came into the game I used an anti-direwhale build on the oxide which could two-shot a whale from the back. I called it the harpoon build. now it's just another casualty of power creeps and nerfs into useless. Dhrg meta rules the game now while a kgc can't even fire dual ac 20s stock without massive heat spike.

I agree the rescale needs to be re-done. But that idiotic mistake will not be fixed by PGI I do not think.

Another major issue is arty and air strikes. Simply to damn many and you have no idea they are there, lets face it just one shell can wreck a lights life.

[VeeOt Dragon]

as for arty well a Light is fast enough to get the hell out of dodge before it hits (if you see the smoke or get a warning) so the danger is about even really (slow assaults can't get out of the way at all most of the time)

as for the rest i think lights are fine were they sit as far as scale goes (ok there are a few that seem a little big like the Jenner) i do agree with some kind of match score buff for light or even for lights on a per chassis basis (something like a Flee or Locus should get the buff while mechs like the Piranha that can carry a stronger weapon load shouldn't.

(on a side not i do think we need some re-Quirks on some Chassis, ones that have been left behind by the power creep. there are some great mechs that just don't get used because they have been left so far behind. this goes for just about every class of mech.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 23 October 2020 - 07:18 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 October 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

as for arty well a Light is fast enough to get the hell out of dodge before it hits (if you see the smoke or get a warning) so the danger is about even really (slow assaults can't get out of the way at all most of the time)

The problem is Heavies and assaults can handle taking multiple hits from an arty..... Lights can not. Seriously one shell can ruin a locust's day. the problem is there is no warning where an arty or air might hit.

Also there so just so damn many of them.

[JediPanther]

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 October 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

as for arty well a Light is fast enough to get the hell out of dodge before it hits (if you see the smoke or get a warning) so the danger is about even really (slow assaults can't get out of the way at all most of the time)

as for the rest i think lights are fine were they sit as far as scale goes (ok there are a few that seem a little big like the Jenner) i do agree with some kind of match score buff for light or even for lights on a per chassis basis (something like a Flee or Locus should get the buff while mechs like the Piranha that can carry a stronger weapon load shouldn't.

(on a side not i do think we need some re-Quirks on some Chassis, ones that have been left behind by the power creep. there are some great mechs that just don't get used because they have been left so far behind. this goes for just about every class of mech.)

How fine is the spider 5v compared to a lct 1v? Some lights are very much superior to others from number and hard point locations to armor amounts. If the panthers can have 48 arm armor why can't the jr7-f since 50% of its weapons are in each arm?

[VeeOt Dragon]

that goes the same for every class of mech, there are some that are just far better than others its not something only to do with lights. as for the arms of the Jenner well thats were some new Quirk adjustment comes in, give them an armor bonus to the arm pods. any armor has to come from somewhere as far as unquirked base. so for the Jenner example you would have to lose max armor somewhere else to gain an increase to the arm max base. you only have so many tons for each mech and that can't and shouldn't be changed.

as for size well its all on how the mech is built. a more humanoid mech is going to be taller than something like a Locust. also a 20 ton mech is going to be smaller than say a 35 ton mech. (don't play lights other than an Urbie now and again so i don't remember the tonnage of the Spider)

oddly you see more of the 20 tonners on the battlefield than the 35 tonners even though a 35 ton mech can usually bring more firepower and or armor (hell the Urbie can be a tanky little ******* while still doing 100+kph).

[Nightbird]

You can't change match score in a way that is able to differentiate actions that help the team win versus actions that help a team lose. Can't fix match score, just don't use it.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Nightbird, on 23 October 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

You can't change match score in a way that is able to differentiate actions that help the team win versus actions that help a team lose. Can't fix match score, just don't use it.

Not perfectly no, but you can do a lot better than how it’s done now. MS should reward results, not the means to the results - damage is means to destroy components and kill mechs. Therefore, MS should reward components destroyed and kills more than raw damage, which is mostly removing armor.

Rewarding damage says that splat weapons are the most useful to your team. This is absolutely wrong. A well aimed shot to remove the red ST of an XL build is a lot more useful than removing another 100 points of armor from the other 7 mech components. Lights that back-stab through 10 points of back armor are more useful than the MRM boat that removed 100 points of front armor divided between arms, legs, and torsos.

Rewarding components destroyed and kills allows light mechs to increase MS by targeting weak components and securing kills - which is what they are supposed to do. RACs, LRM, MRM, ATM, and streaks rack up a lot of damage by removing unnecessary amounts of armor - this is only marginally useful to the team and should be rewarded accordingly.

[Nightbird]

ShiverMeRivets, on 24 October 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Not perfectly no, but you can do a lot better than how it’s done now. MS should reward results, not the means to the results - damage is means to destroy components and kill mechs. Therefore, MS should reward components destroyed and kills more than raw damage, which is mostly removing armor.

Rewarding damage says that splat weapons are the most useful to your team. This is absolutely wrong. A well aimed shot to remove the red ST of an XL build is a lot more useful than removing another 100 points of armor from the other 7 mech components. Lights that back-stab through 10 points of back armor are more useful than the MRM boat that removed 100 points of front armor divided between arms, legs, and torsos.

Rewarding components destroyed and kills allows light mechs to increase MS by targeting weak components and securing kills - which is what they are supposed to do. RACs, LRM, MRM, ATM, and streaks rack up a lot of damage by removing unnecessary amounts of armor - this is only marginally useful to the team and should be rewarded accordingly.

This discourages people from shooting targets with armor on, instead you'll have MS farmers wait until targets are open and only then exposing, sharing armor, and shooting. Do you really want to play in that environment?

[Darian DelFord]

VeeOt Dragon, on 23 October 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

that goes the same for every class of mech, there are some that are just far better than others its not something only to do with lights. as for the arms of the Jenner well thats were some new Quirk adjustment comes in, give them an armor bonus to the arm pods. any armor has to come from somewhere as far as unquirked base. so for the Jenner example you would have to lose max armor somewhere else to gain an increase to the arm max base. you only have so many tons for each mech and that can't and shouldn't be changed.

as for size well its all on how the mech is built. a more humanoid mech is going to be taller than something like a Locust. also a 20 ton mech is going to be smaller than say a 35 ton mech. (don't play lights other than an Urbie now and again so i don't remember the tonnage of the Spider)

oddly you see more of the 20 tonners on the battlefield than the 35 tonners even though a 35 ton mech can usually bring more firepower and or armor (hell the Urbie can be a tanky little ******* while still doing 100+kph).

Actually that is exactly what happened to the Jenner. The problem "Pre Fix" was it was super easy to just ST a Jenner. So the community as a whole just wanted some Torso Structure quirks..... thats it. Instead they redid the hit boxes and then made the CT so damn big you could not miss that hit box. Again all the community wanted was a structure quirk buff. But alas PGI in its "ultimate" wisdom decided to take off 80% of the armor from the arms and put it on the toro's. So now half an alfa from any mech will literally remove half the weapons from the Jenners. Most Jenners have most of their weapons in their arms. When i see a Jenner my first shot is always the arms half their firepower gone.

What I would really really be interested in seeing is the raw data of how many of watch chasis drop in a given time period. That data I think would be gold.

The reason you see more 20 tonners is simply size. The 35 ton mechs are way to easy to hit than a flea or a locust.

Nightbird, on 23 October 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

You can't change match score in a way that is able to differentiate actions that help the team win versus actions that help a team lose. Can't fix match score, just don't use it.

Actually you can adjust match score and the way points are added, they have done it multiple times. Now I agree it is impossible to score me in a flea pulling off half the team to chase me allowing my team to roll the opponents. That is not what I am asking for.

It is common knowledge that lights have to bring their A game to every match in order to preform well in the current environment where some mechs boast 75+ point alpha's at greater than 500 meters. If I am not mistaken Match score is roughly 50% of raw damage.

What I am asking for is a modifier based on weight or something that allows the MS to be a bit more balanced for lighter chasis.

Nightbird, on 24 October 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

This discourages people from shooting targets with armor on, instead you'll have MS farmers wait until targets are open and only then exposing, sharing armor, and shooting. Do you really want to play in that environment?

This is not true

Edited by Darian DelFord, 24 October 2020 - 05:41 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

I'd like to see active scouting activities see better rewards, like for narcing or TAGging targets. I think C-Bills and EXP for just hitting the targets with Narcs is waaaaay overdue!