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A Tier Lock Option Would Be Nice.


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#1 Shereza

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 12:50 PM

I'm tired of bouncing back and forth between Tier 2 and Tier 3, and while I don't have a markedly higher win rate, 60% to 53%, in Tier 3 than Tier 2 it just feels more fun.

I don't have fun in Tier 2, however. I don't have fun bouncing up into Tier 2 and hitting my head on a steel wall. I don't have fun feeling like I lose every match until I hit Tier 3 again. Similarly I don't have as much fun when I win matches in Tier 3 because I know that each win usually brings me closer to hitting Tier 2 again.

It'd be great if, in order to avoid hitting Tier 2, I could do more than run "troll" builds like a flamer-based Firestarter or a capture Spider which can do much to help a team but still ultimately lose tier points despite winning a match.

Frankly, as it stands I'm having less fun playing the game now than I did last year before match making and tiering were reworked. For me personally being able to lock myself to Tier 3 so long as I remain eligible for Tier 3 would help somewhat with that.

At the very least it'd cut down on my thoughts of, "I know I'm not that good of a player, so why does the matchmaker expect me to carry teams once I hit Tier 2?"

#2 Gagis

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 01:17 PM

This could be abused in horrifying ways. Please no.

#3 Shereza

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 11:38 AM

I'm open to other suggestions for avoiding getting into Tier 2 and Loose-a-palooza.

Like I said, getting curb-stomped every time I hit Tier 2 is not fun, and frankly it feels damn near abusive in its own right.

Edit: And I realized I did the math wrong. I've got a 34.7% win rate in Tier 2 and 39.6% in Tier 3.

Edited by Shereza, 07 November 2020 - 11:47 AM.


#4 Seth Kalasa

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM

You are taking the fun out of pure Tier 3-4 players the same way as Tier 1-2 players “steal” fun from your games.
So the only way for you is to “grow up” as a player. The truth is that if you want to use “troll” configs and win in top tiers you have to be a hell of a player or play in a good team of 4. Or at least 2-3 if we are talking about lights (firestarters).

#5 martian

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Posted 08 November 2020 - 12:28 AM

View PostShereza, on 01 November 2020 - 12:50 PM, said:

I'm tired of bouncing back and forth between Tier 2 and Tier 3, and while I don't have a markedly higher win rate, 60% to 53%, in Tier 3 than Tier 2 it just feels more fun.

It feels fun because you are farming players with lower skill than you have. When you move up to Tier 2, you are experiencing the opposite.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

You are taking the fun out of pure Tier 3-4 players the same way as Tier 1-2 players “steal” fun from your games.

This, pretty much.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

So the only way for you is to “grow up” as a player.

Yes, exactly. Improve your gameplay and your 'Mech builds, so you are not an easy prey for the other players.

You may not like it, but this is how the things work in the current MWO.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

The truth is that if you want to use “troll” configs and win in top tiers you have to be a hell of a player or play in a good team of 4. Or at least 2-3 if we are talking about lights (firestarters).

Of course, he can be lucky and be carried by a good team even when piloting a troll build.

#6 Bronn of the Blackwater

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Posted 08 November 2020 - 06:44 AM

I´m sorry, but probably your impression to be doing better in a tier or in other is totally ilusory.

There are not enough players active to achieve a separation between tiers. Tier 1 players are contiuosly mixed with tier 3 players, and vice versa of course. We are in fact in the same bucket.
I´m not suposed to see cadets (Tier 3) in any of my games, but i see them all the time...

What is making this game miserable is not the mix of tiers, that could be even fun IF ALL THE LOW TIER PLAYERS ARE NOT IN THE SAME TEAM. What is fraking the game is the groups and the solo queue mixed...

This is ruining the fun for everybody not being in a decent team. If you like to play solo, or your timezone or whatever reason dont let you play in team, you will learn in the hard way...

#7 Belorion

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Posted 09 November 2020 - 09:27 AM

This just wouldn't work. Grifter floats tier score down to T4/T5, and locks it... roflestomps ensue.

#8 PCHunter

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Posted 09 November 2020 - 06:25 PM

Until active player population increases dramatically, this is life. For me, it's the Tier 3-4 bounce. I play up to Tier 3 and into it with builds that can nudge my PRS upwards - basically high burst damage Heavy and Assault classes. Then I play the more fun classes Lights and Mediums until I drift down to Tier 4. Rinse and repeat. This happens because the PSR in no way, shape or form reflects individual player's contribution to the match except for damage points and match score. Light mechs that do base and resource captures, or base destruction, do not get the credit they are due in this calculation. A single light mech can win a match, but if it doesn't do 400 damage points a player's PSR is likely to decrease. So, until this gets addressed somehow, this is my way of dealing with the PSR system and playing the different mechs in my hangar.

#9 PCHunter

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Posted 09 November 2020 - 06:38 PM

On a separate note is the dreaded match making analog used. God knows I tried to follow it, but it defies rationale. This, to me, is the No. 1 issue holding back the game in making it fun, fair and enjoyable for all players, old and new. The main issues are:

1. Group play vrs. solo players. The cure is to rate the entire group at the highest player's tier. Or just don't mix them.
2. Allocate team mechs according to player PSR and mech weights. I can't figure out why this is so difficult. It takes a simple allocation model - put 24 plus players in a match pool, allocate players according to PSR, make adjustments based on what weight mechs are in the 2 team pools. If it takes more players in the pool than the 24 it requires for a match, then increase the pool size accordingly and draw out the 24 best combinations.

Honestly, it is silly to see the extreme cases of 7 assaults on a team versus 2. Players keep commenting about the firepower, but it is not that, it is the combined armor count it takes to grind through. I have played matches where my lighter team clearly has the upper hand in firepower and maneuverability, but in the end, the team with the most armor outlasted us. At some point the DPS loses to the massed armor against it.

Likewise sometimes there seems to be an averaging model employed - 6 assaults handicapped by 6 lights and mediums. Group play seems to influence this allocation. Holding groups to a 4/1 format seems a possible fix.

#10 Gagis

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 02:18 AM

View PostPCHunter, on 09 November 2020 - 06:25 PM, said:

Until active player population increases dramatically, this is life. For me, it's the Tier 3-4 bounce. I play up to Tier 3 and into it with builds that can nudge my PRS upwards - basically high burst damage Heavy and Assault classes. Then I play the more fun classes Lights and Mediums until I drift down to Tier 4. Rinse and repeat. This happens because the PSR in no way, shape or form reflects individual player's contribution to the match except for damage points and match score. Light mechs that do base and resource captures, or base destruction, do not get the credit they are due in this calculation. A single light mech can win a match, but if it doesn't do 400 damage points a player's PSR is likely to decrease. So, until this gets addressed somehow, this is my way of dealing with the PSR system and playing the different mechs in my hangar.

Most of the time when a player claims they are playing the objective, what they are actually doing is abandoning their team to fight the enemy 11v12, and then eventually failing the objective as the enemy comes to claim the objective 1v12.

There being 12 enemies trying to disrupt you from achieving the goal is kind of a big deal. You need to be able to do something about that.

#11 Belorion

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 08:17 AM

Tier 4 is exceptionally hard, since at Tier 3 you can be matched against Tier 1 players.

They really need to add at least 1 tier.

#12 Shereza

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

You are taking the fun out of pure Tier 3-4 players the same way as Tier 1-2 players “steal” fun from your games.


How am I "taking the fun out of pure Tier 3-4 players" when I usually get bounced down to Tier 3 within 6 matches? I'm clearly a Tier 3 player so how is playing at my tier taking the fun out of it for me?

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

So the only way for you is to “grow up” as a player.


I'm reasonably sure I've done all the "growing up" I can given that I started playing a couple years ago.

About the only thing to really do is skill up the mechs I play to 91 points, but that's such a stupidly frustrating slog that I'll do one or two matches on a mech that I want to play and then play 4-5 matches on a 91 point mech in the hopes of getting in just one win for the day.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

The truth is that if you want to use “troll” configs and win in top tiers you have to be a hell of a player or play in a good team of 4.


I don't want to run "troll" builds though. I don't want to have to game the system in order to have fun playing the game.

View Postmartian, on 08 November 2020 - 12:28 AM, said:

It feels fun because you are farming players with lower skill than you have. When you move up to Tier 2, you are experiencing the opposite.


I have a 42% win rate in Tier 3 and a 35.57% win rate in Tier 2. Please explain to me how I'm farming anything. If anything it's a clear indication that even in Tier 3 I'm the one being "farmed."

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yes, exactly. Improve your gameplay and your 'Mech builds, so you are not an easy prey for the other players.


What build/mechs/gameplay tips would you suggest for being put on a team that's 40+ tons underweight or is half-staffed with idiots?

I had one match today where my team had two heavies for our largest mechs while the enemy had two heavies and an assault. I also had at least two matches lost within the first 3-4 minutes of gameplay. Gameplay, not combat. I'd love to know what mechs/builds can carry a whole team in situations like those.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Of course, he can be lucky and be carried by a good team even when piloting a troll build.


I'm not that lucky. The matchmaker seems to expect me to carry teams, not the other way around.

No, I just do **** like run a +100% capture rate spider and run batteries in Incursion, managing to have nearly 100% up time on radar and jammer or hit the overheating mechs with flamers and work on opening up their backsides while my team hits the front.

Really bugs me that on the one hand I wish match scoring was better yet on the other hand knowing that if it were it'd be harder to stay in Tier 3. I had a match yesterday where I ran battery support in Incursion, had the radar up in time to spot where the enemies all were, had the jammer up 40 seconds later to play hob with their end since they didn't have radar up, and then put radar up again a second time just to make the mopup easier. For final measure I did the game winning base plink.

I got all of 95,833 C-Bills for that. Three battery pickup/dropoffs, a salvage bonus for some reason, and absolutely jack all for doing things with the radar station that would've netted me points/score/cash had i done it with a UAV.

I mean on the one hand my contribution was under-valued by the game so that I can slip back down into Tier 3 faster. On the other hand my contribution was under-valued by the game so that if I wanted to do something other than pretend that every mode is Skirmish I'd be screwed.

View PostSeth Kalasa, on 07 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

You may not like it, but this is how the things work in the current MWO.


I don't like it, and you're correct.

And that's why I believe I'm done playing the game. I just got done with an 8 loss losing streak with one victory at the end. That was my entire morning and about two hours of playing.

I think it's probably better that I quit before I get to the point that I start dropping artillery strikes on my own team and calling out their locations for the enemy team when they NASCAR me to death as happened in one game today and who knows how many games in the past.

#13 martian

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 11:42 AM

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

I have a 42% win rate in Tier 3 and a 35.57% win rate in Tier 2. Please explain to me how I'm farming anything. If anything it's a clear indication that even in Tier 3 I'm the one being "farmed."

Well, there are some players in Tier 4 and 5 with even lower stats than yours. And you are meeting them and killing them in your Tier 3 games.

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

What build/mechs/gameplay tips would you suggest for being put on a team that's 40+ tons underweight or is half-staffed with idiots?

There are three things that you can not influence:
  • your team's weight
  • enemy team's weight
  • your team's tactics and composition
However, you can make sure that your 'Mech is prepared the best way possible and that your personal tactics can bring you C-Bills and "=" or even the green arrow sign, even in defeat. Not always, of course.

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

I had one match today where my team had two heavies for our largest mechs while the enemy had two heavies and an assault. I also had at least two matches lost within the first 3-4 minutes of gameplay. Gameplay, not combat. I'd love to know what mechs/builds can carry a whole team in situations like those.

What about asking in the appropriate section of the forum? You could go here: New Player Help and ask some questions about 'Mech builds and the best tactics for their use.

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm not that lucky. The matchmaker seems to expect me to carry teams, not the other way around.

That's just your feeling. You should simply concentrate on your best personal performance.

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

No, I just do **** like run a +100% capture rate spider and run batteries in Incursion, managing to have nearly 100% up time on radar and jammer or hit the overheating mechs with flamers and work on opening up their backsides while my team hits the front.

Really bugs me that on the one hand I wish match scoring was better yet on the other hand knowing that if it were it'd be harder to stay in Tier 3. I had a match yesterday where I ran battery support in Incursion, had the radar up in time to spot where the enemies all were, had the jammer up 40 seconds later to play hob with their end since they didn't have radar up, and then put radar up again a second time just to make the mopup easier. For final measure I did the game winning base plink.

I got all of 95,833 C-Bills for that. Three battery pickup/dropoffs, a salvage bonus for some reason, and absolutely jack all for doing things with the radar station that would've netted me points/score/cash had i done it with a UAV.

I mean on the one hand my contribution was under-valued by the game so that I can slip back down into Tier 3 faster. On the other hand my contribution was under-valued by the game so that if I wanted to do something other than pretend that every mode is Skirmish I'd be screwed.

Well, Spider was obsolete six years ago.

As for the Match Score and PSR, direct damage pays better than capping. Even if you dislike how these conditions are set, there is nothing you can do with it.

Honestly, killing enemy 'Mechs would have helped your team better.

View PostShereza, on 15 November 2020 - 10:29 AM, said:

I don't like it, and you're correct.

And that's why I believe I'm done playing the game. I just got done with an 8 loss losing streak with one victory at the end. That was my entire morning and about two hours of playing.

I think it's probably better that I quit before I get to the point that I start dropping artillery strikes on my own team and calling out their locations for the enemy team when they NASCAR me to death as happened in one game today and who knows how many games in the past.


Essentially, your tactics should be to ensure that you do some some damage, one kill maybe and perhaps even do some Match Score boosting actions, if possible. All this before you get killed by the enemy team. Not easy, I know. Posted Image But doable, sometimes.

You just have to be better than other members of your team. Even among members of the winning team would be some players with lower MS. Your aim should be to have a better MS than they have.

Edited by martian, 15 November 2020 - 11:43 AM.


#14 General Solo

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 12:35 PM

Its a match making issue, so pretty much theirs no hope of improvement unless the population picks up.
In the mean time I suggest to ignore your Tier, in fact hide it/
And have fun.

Remember according to the devs
Its Fine, just keep keep playing.

FYI they don't read these forums.

#15 Cichol Balor

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 03:10 AM

Honestly its probably a combination of placebo and self fulfilling prophecy that is your issue. You bring up that you intentionally run builds when you hit T2 that will drop you back down so yeah thats going to make the games feel harder if your making it that way. With the current population you're being matched with the same people between the two with little to no variation. Thinking however when you hit T2 that now all the matches are going to be so much harder is going to put you in a bad state of mind before you even drop.

This is why i really wish tiers were hidden from the players. They are just a tool for the match making to do its best and don't really reflect a players skill rather just how long they have been playing as its skewed to make it easier to go up than down.

The problems with groups being put into the solo queue is more a problem because it can really skew the weight of a team and I think the weight restriction needs to be tightened. The team work aspect is only really apparent if you make the choice not to put in effort to call or if the group your up against is extremely good on their own. In fact I have found having a group on my team feels more like a handicap to the team work more often than not as they never communicate in game except at the end to complain about how it was the fault of everyone else on the team that they lost. Most pug players are more than willing to listen to calls even if they are not talking back particularly if you call out open components like CTs and they want to get the killing blow.

EDIT:

To better explain with the groups. If no one on your team is calling and there is 4 people on the other team working together then yes they have an advantage. If you start calling then 100% of your matches will have some one on your team calling.

Edited by Cichol Balor, 14 January 2021 - 03:14 AM.






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