47 replies to this topic

[Galahad2030]

I'm part of a community that is trying to make resources for new players. One question that is unanswered is what weapon system is easiest for new players to play with.

The choices are as follows:

• Ballistics (autocannons, machine guns, gauss rifles)
  
• Missiles (srm, mrm, lrm, streak srms, atms)
  
• Laser (lasers and PPCs)

I don't have ability to official poll so reply back to this thread with Ballistic, Missiles OR Lasers.

Explanation is optional.

Please remember, this is about new player combat, so if you are a veteran player post what you remember when you first started out, not your experienced balanced viewpoint (which will derail this thread).

ONE WORD: Ballistic, Missiles, OR Lasers.
EXPLANATION: Optional.

Edited by Galahad2030, 01 November 2020 - 02:50 PM.

[Leone]

Lasers are hit scan. They are the easiest to start with, but can take some mastering to stay on target.

Ballistics may need some lead, but are easier to master since they're more 'fire an forget'

Missiles seem easy, but I've seen some many new players launch srms at 500m or rain lrms against terrain without paying attention. They're hard to start right with and hardest to master. My advice to new missiles users is usually to slow down and pay attention to distance and firing lines before launching.

~Leone, of Kell's Commandos

[Galahad2030]

Leone, on 01 November 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

Lasers are hit scan. They are the easiest to start with, but can take some mastering to stay on target.

Ballistics may need some lead, but are easier to master since they're more 'fire an forget'

Missiles seem easy, but I've seen some many new players launch srms at 500m or rain lrms against terrain without paying attention. They're hard to start right with and hardest to master. My advice to new missiles users is usually to slow down and pay attention to distance and firing lines before launching.

~Leone, of Kell's Commandos

The point of this poll is vote for one, not all options if you don't mind.

Which is the easiest system for a new player to start off with?

[Steel Raven]

Depends on how that player manages heat. Laser are easy to aim and have no ammo concerns but there are veteran players who have a hard time managing heat on hot maps in a brawl.

Each AC is a little different thus each requires a different play style. I would say the LB-10X would be the most mid range beginners friendly thanks to the spread, range and running cool. It's a qestion of finding the right mech and build after that.

Missiles have a even larger divide between LRM, SRM, MRM and ATM. SRM brawlers are the easiest to understand; hug enemy and pull trigger, but not so easy to master with brawling now being a refined skill vs the meta. You need good timing to get into range without soaking up too much damage and to torso twist in a brawl. There are plenty of good MRM builds but it's a stretch to call any of them beginners builds as MRM require more face time while leading the target. LRMs... no. Too many beginner get too passive with LRMs.

A Warhammer 6R with 2X LB-10Xs and 4X Medium lasers is a decent starter. You can always swap out the guns for something else on that mech if LB-10Xs are not your thing.

[Galahad2030]

Steel Raven, on 01 November 2020 - 04:56 PM, said:

Depends on how that player manages heat. Laser are easy to aim and have no ammo concerns but there are veteran players who have a hard time managing heat on hot maps in a brawl.

Each AC is a little different thus each requires a different play style. I would say the LB-10X would be the most mid range beginners friendly thanks to the spread, range and running cool. It's a qestion of finding the right mech and build after that.

Missiles have a even larger divide between LRM, SRM, MRM and ATM. SRM brawlers are the easiest to understand; hug enemy and pull trigger, but not so easy to master with brawling now being a refined skill vs the meta. You need good timing to get into range without soaking up too much damage and to torso twist in a brawl. There are plenty of good MRM builds but it's a stretch to call any of them beginners builds as MRM require more face time while leading the target. LRMs... no. Too many beginner get too passive with LRMs.

A Warhammer 6R with 2X LB-10Xs and 4X Medium lasers is a decent starter. You can always swap out the guns for something else on that mech if LB-10Xs are not your thing.

Do you not have a definitive vote on the matter?

[CFC Conky]

It also depends on the type of mech, i.e. light, medium, heavy, or assa

[Galahad2030]

CFC Conky, on 01 November 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

It also depends on the type of mech, i.e. light, medium, heavy, or assa

Please answer this poll with the following format:

Quote

ONE WORD: Ballistic, Missiles, OR Lasers.
EXPLANATION: Optional.

Edited by Galahad2030, 02 November 2020 - 07:12 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Lasers.
If you miss, you have time to correct your aim and deal partial damage. May not do much damage but your indicator will flash a hit which is enough to make them feel they hit. Lasers were my favorite when I started for that reason. I still like them best, honestly.

Ideally, I'd aim for ER Med Laser builds for a new player mech. With perhaps one other weapon system either an AC or a couple SRMs/LRMs.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 03 November 2020 - 03:35 PM.

[martian]

Galahad2030, on 01 November 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

As A New Player Which Loadout Is Easiest To Play With?

Missiles (LRMs/ATMs)

New players do not have to lead the target as with projectile weapons and they do not have to keep lasers on target. Plus, energy weapons are heat intensive, so new players often struggle with overheating.

Guided missiles give them the opportunity to contribute without requiring them to be in the thick of combat.

HBK-4J Hunchback used to be a good beginners' 'Mech:

• It lets them contribute with LRMs and observe the battlefield while having lasers for self-defence.
  
• It is sufficiently fast to keep the pace with the team.
  
• As a medium 'Mech it is not a priority target for the enemy team.
  
• It can be bought for C-Bills and it is quite cheap.

[chevy42083]

This is the great thing about this game... there's SOOOOO many variables. You have to just learn one individual weapon, then move on to another. Whether you master it, or hate it... you move on to learn more.

Lasers let you feel like you did something... even if you just grazed them. but you won't be rocking those high numbers, by grazing. Infinite ammo lets them pop away all match long without worrying about running out. Heat can be an issue... but that's easily learned as long as they don't get trigger happy in the 'heat' of battle.

There's too many types of missiles to compare their usage. Some require locks (which noobs don't know how to do), some require leading, some have min distance, others have max to worry about.

Ballistics are easy do do damage if you're face tanking. But can be tricky to twist and get back on target. LBX are kind of like lasers... one of your rounds will hit something. Running out of ammo... or carrying way too much... can be a tough learning curve.

PPCs don't really fit in either of the categories because of the infinite ammo, but acting like a ballistic.

[Corka]

Lasers.

They are just very straight forward. Shoot at the enemy, no need to manage ammunition, no need to worry about minimum range. If you slightly miss with a laser, you can still correct your aim with the remaining duration to at least get some damage in. Building is often straightforward since you don't need to worry about whether you're taking enough ammo, just whether or not you're taking a good number of heat sinks.

[jss78]

Yeah lasers are definitely easiest, because of the leeway they give in finding your target.

When I've guided a new player into the game, I like to set them up with something like an average-speed, medium-range laser boat. It's probably the easiest way to start in the Quick Play queue -- there's never a game where it's particularly difficult to do your job.

Recently I handheld a new player to start with a Charger 1A1 with an 350-rated LFE, 3 LL and 5 ERML, and about 20 heat sinks. He literally couldn't believe how much easier the game suddenly became.

[El Maestro]

Low caliber balistic (AC5)

- cool down is short, feedback on leading shots is clear.
- AC5 have good range (so you don't need to bother with that)
- Managing Heat is easy
- Great starter is a 4 ac5 Cataphracht 4X (slow but guns in arms makes shooting fun and easy) or a 2 A5 shadowhawk (high mount and low prio target).
- My first mech was a Hunchback 4G slugging an AC20 (= fun starter)

Greetings from the happy blokes and girls of The Phoenix Dominion [PhD]

Edited by El Maestro, 15 November 2020 - 04:13 AM.

[DiDiZacZac]

LRMs

Explanations:
One of the most scary thing as a newb is to manage piloting and gunnery coupled with trying to move in formation and run the play with the majority are doing at the same time. A common mistake would be to charge in guns blazing and becoming easy pick for the opponent. (At least that’s what happened to me - don’t tell me you’ve not done that before.) the thing is, if you die too often amd too quick, you would give up on the game and just leave it. So to really enjoy and learn the game, you need to see out a few runs of the game, spectacle some of the other play. So LRMs from before the front line (properly) gives the newbie some decent play time. May not get a lot of points, but if done properly can still contribute to the team!

[General Solo]

Best weapons are what ever you do best in, so you have to try many comboes
Trust me
Rather have a 1000 damage LRM boat than a 50 damage direct fire assault mech team mate

Pilots are different
If your aiming is good direct fire is master race for a reason
Otherwise what works best for your win rate

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 November 2020 - 12:33 AM.

[Void Angel]

There's no correct answer to the question as asked. Ballistics will be forgiving on new players' heat management skills, but will require projectile leading and may run out of ammunition. Lasers are easy to paint a target with, but must be held on a component to avoid painting all over a target. Direct-fire missiles have generally good heat to damage ratios, but inflict spread damage and require leading as well. Lock-on missiles feel better to many new players, but generally end up being a trap, with new players who rely on them eventually lacking marksmanship and damage spreading skills to use other weapons systems - once they start to run into players who can deal with LRM or Streak fire more effectively.

If you want to give good advice to new players about what weapons to bring, tell to pick weapons that all work the same way at similar ranges - don't mix LRMs with ERPPCs, for example, or try to be a "mech for all seasons" that ends up with weaponry that's inadequate at all ranges. And tell them that while they can and should learn how LRMs work, they must not use those weapons exclusively, or they'll pay for it later. And above all, tell them to find a weapon mix that works well, and then practice that. The biggest difference between the best players and the worst is practice. If your newbies understand the principles of the game, and then put in the hours, they'll reap the rewards of that effort.

TL/DR: the best weapon systems for new players to use are the ones they practice with.
but not LRMs.

[Sunshinetrooper]

Lasers are the easiest.

Its a simple point and click and there is little variance in the weaponry or their use. It also means the user has to focus on their heat management and aim, which are incredibly useful skills to have.

[PinkFluffyUnicorns]

Lasers, and starting in a light mech if they don't have a background in lag input games like this. My year of Raven addiction helped me a lot. Missles could lead to bad habits, bad experiences, unrealistic expectations. ACs on a medium mech could be the next step. Graduating the mech class towards Assault seems like a good progression imho.

[Elizander]

• Lasers have a tendency to overheat and shut down a new player since the heat spikes are so huge.
  
• SRMs are very limited by range and new players might not know what to do for most of the game or they try to run in and die.
  
• Gauss Rifle charge isn't taught to new players there's a chance they just can't use it.

So for new players, I'd go with autocannons since they ramp up heat slow, allow them to spam the fire button somewhat and LBX can sort of help with bad aim thanks to the spread. So avoid the AC/20s and UAC/20s. LB10X or UAC/10+UAC/5 would probably be the best beginner weapons. I'd go so far as to go with LBX or UAC/5s for the purposes of having higher velocity. I'd avoid any projectile with 'floaty' bullets like the AC/20.

Most new players won't be able to 'estimate' riding the line when they alpha with lasers because the heat spikes are huge. UACs/LBX ramp up heat slowly giving them more time to realize they need to stop shooting and get some cover.

Edited by Elizander, 22 December 2020 - 10:39 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

Lasers

- No ammo to manage
- Forces you to learn how to manage heat. Overheat shutdown and getting shot to death or explode is the best way to learn not to do it
- Allows you to correct your shot during the burn time
- Hitscan = no need to lead shots