288 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

MWO is the first Mechwarrior game with 12 vs 12 matches, and thats due the lore of 12 Mech lances.

I'm aware why, I just don't think it was ever a wise decision for QP at least.

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

IMHO it depends on the style of game PGI & the player wants:

Close combat on small maps without respawn and fast matches ?
Solaris
1 vs 1
2 vs 2
4 vs 4
FFA (8-32 players depending on the size of the map)

Small/middle/large maps without respawn and fast matches ?
Domination, Conquest, Escort (if it was reworked to have one person randomly chosen to be VIP), Incursion (reworked to be more like search and destroy or bomb game modes from CoD/CSGO)
6 vs 6
8 vs 8

longer matches with dropdecks & respawns and drop in and out esque gameplay?
new mode like Control Point/Tug of War game modes from other games, Siege (reworked to be an asymmetric of Control Point/Tug of War), maybe CTF?
12 vs 12
16 vs 16

FTFY

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

• Disolving the teams after each match prevents team building. No on care about their "team mates" if they only play one match with them.
  
• No respawns promotes a "no risk" gameplay. Don't risk your Mech, use your team a shield if needed, let slower Mechs behind. Last Mech standing makes the kills.
  
• Leaving ASAP after death to spawn in a new match with a new Mech makes it even worse, because loosing your only Mech isn't much of a thing, yeah, it may hurt your team, but those 11 random players don't matter after your are left the game, so why care about them?

You could add respawn, but that doesn't stop people from hurting their team since they can endlessly throw themselves to the enemy. You aren't going to fix bad play, you can just offer different strokes for different folks.
The group function design of PGI was also terrible. That said, keeping your team if you like it is a nice idea that some games have had.

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

At the start 8 player premades have been put against mixed teams of smaller premades and solo players, and those mixed teams have been stomped.
Instead of limiting the group size to 4 (same as a Lance) PGI split the player base between Solo & Group.
In Group Queue 8 and later 12 player premades have been put against mixed teams of smaller premades.
Balancing by tonnage didn't work in group play, instead it forced bigger group with lower tonnage to use wolfpack tactics to overrun the enemy team.
The unlimited group size also lead to things like incompatible groups (11 players) or hard to match groups (10+2, 9+3). Group sizes from 2 - 12 players also prevented any kind of matchmaking by group tier.

Most games support this sort of matchmaking so not sure that it was ever truly a problem here other than the fact that good players could make less impact when we switched to 12v12s so they even had trouble stopping 12 man group rushes. In 8v8 group sizes of any size should be acceptable. Honestly as far as I know most shooters typically merge group/solo queue and try to match based on group sizes and "skill". For 12v12 and 16v16 modes you brought up earlier, 4 man limits make sense.

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

Group players used the Solo Queue too: it was the place to grind XP & farm events. That was fastern than in group, because you could left the match ASAP after death to grind / farm in the next match with a new mech.

Not sure what the problem here is because the best way to farm is actually make an impact on the team and stomp enemies which generally means lasting a good while.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 30 December 2020 - 02:36 PM.

[Alreech]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 December 2020 - 02:22 PM, said:

I'm aware why, I just don't think it was ever a wise decision for QP at least.

12 vs 12 Quickplay with random teams, dissolved after each map was indeed a bad idea.

Other games with random teams keep the team multiple matches together.
With each macht the teamwork became better (also due the fact that unhappy players leave the server or change teams).

Quote

You could add respawn, but that doesn't stop people from hurting their team since they can endlessly throw themselves to the enemy. You aren't going to fix bad play, you can just offer different strokes for different folks.

You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the spawns are limited.
You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the matchtime is limited.
You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the match ends after one side wins by fullfilling the objective.

The dropdecks in Faction Play & the time limits and game modes like Conquest, Domination, Incursion work that way.

Quote

Not sure what the problem here is because the best way to farm is actually make an impact on the team and stomp enemies which generally means lasting a good while.

Farming events and grinding Mechs for Faction Play had multiple bad impacts:
1st: Group players in Solo Quickplay didn't use their teamplay skills (because it's not usefull in that mode), so teamplay wasn't improved
2nd: It lead to a cynical view about the other players in quickplay. "Quickplay is only good for grinding, good players play Faction Play / Comp play / Solaris" (ironically grinding in Quickplay reduced the playtime in "the real game modes").
3rd: It removed players from Group and Faction Play.

Edited by Alreech, 01 January 2021 - 07:40 AM.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

one of the things that I would love to see is the ability of units to have sub unit designations, with the ability to be able to have unit/sub unit themed decals... this would lead to more of a bond between units and subunits within the parent unit... ie: company A of Battalion bravo of the Northwind Highlanders, for example... or for Clans, Trinary Hawk's Claws of the Provisional Garrison Cluster... thoughts?

[Honeybadgers]

The few players I got to try the game were interested, but as soon as they saw the cost of each mech pack, they thought it was a predatory game and just bailed immediately. It's really annoying that the monetization feels so expensive, but I think a lot of it had to do with the "boss rush" of mechs in 2019. I wouldn't mind a $50-60 mech pack (please, no more mech packs that cost more than $50. I don't think any game really deserves to charge a whole game's worth of money for minor content. Make cosmetics/addons more important, exciting, and easy to apply, and charge for those.)

I do like the idea of a few starter packs/new player packs that give you some good content for a REALLY good value. A lot of players need to be hooked with a very small purchase ("Hey, welcome new guy! thanks for finishing the tutorial! Would you like to buy a starter mech pack for $5 that includes three medium mechs? Once you have that, how about $10 for a heavy and an assault mech later on, or $8.99 for a brawler/ranged/etc pack?")

Essentially, separate the monetization into two groups - those of us willing to be "whales" and the one for the normal players who get turned off by the expensive stuff, and feel like they're being left out of the new content because they don't want to drop huge amounts of money. I do kind of like the single-chassis system for that reason.

[VileKnight]

Alreech, on 30 December 2020 - 07:26 AM, said:

IMHO best way of a future monetization:

Remove Groups from Quickplay, remove Solaris, remove Faction play from MWO.
Claim a monthly fee from the remaining Players to keep the server running.

Port MWO to the new X-Box
Sell Clan & IS DLCs for Mechwarrior 5
Reboot MWO as Multiplayermodes in Mechwarrior 5, sell starter Packs with Mechs for Multiplayer and cosmetics by microtransactions.
Make it Solaris & Faction Play only.

I can't tell if this is a serious post or if you are trolling a little bit.

You propose to remove 2/3 of the game, and stop people from being able to play with their friends.... and then charge people a fee for playing? PGI would be closing it's doors in 2 months - if that.

[Alreech]

VileKnight, on 04 January 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

I can't tell if this is a serious post or if you are trolling a little bit.

You propose to remove 2/3 of the game, and stop people from being able to play with their friends.... and then charge people a fee for playing? PGI would be closing it's doors in 2 months - if that.

According to good players (high tier) Groups kill the fun in Solo, especially for new players.
According to good players (high tier) Solo Quickplay is the most successfull game mode in MWO

So let's remove the groups and the unsuccessfull game modes, and hordes of new Solo Players will storm quickplay, won't they?
As most of the good Solo Players don't spend much money on Mechpacks (most of the Mechs are useless in Quickplay, and skilling them up ruins your K/D, match score and may reduce your tier) charging a monthly fee would be the best way of monetization.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alreech, on 31 December 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

12 vs 12 Quickplay with random teams, dissolved after each map was indeed a bad idea.

Other games with random teams keep the team multiple matches together.
With each macht the teamwork became better (also due the fact that unhappy players leave the server or change teams).

Very few of the big games have the ability to keep teams together outside of multiple rounds, and many work fine without it. Would it be nice? Yes. Is it magically going to change the way this game is played? lolno

Alreech, on 31 December 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the spawns are limited.
You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the matchtime is limited.
You can't throw yourself at the enemy endlessly if the match ends after one side wins by fullfilling the objective.

The dropdecks in Faction Play & the time limits and game modes like Conquest, Domination, Incursion work that way.

I've seen people throw their mechs away even in Faction Play, respawn, limited respawn, no-respawn, it doesn't really matter. Respawn is nice when you are still learning the game but at some point it gets you into bad habits that don't translate over to no respawn the same way being a PUG star does not translate to good play in comp play.

Alreech, on 31 December 2020 - 07:57 AM, said:

Farming events and grinding Mechs for Faction Play had multiple bad impacts:
1st: Group players in Solo Quickplay didn't use their teamplay skills (because it's not usefull in that mode), so teamplay wasn't improved
2nd: It lead to a cynical view about the other players in quickplay. "Quickplay is only good for grinding, good players play Faction Play / Comp play / Solaris" (ironically grinding in Quickplay reduced the playtime in "the real game modes").
3rd: It removed players from Group and Faction Play.

• This legitimately has nothing to do with events. I've never been in a group that changed their playstyle dramatically for an event. That said I've seen more solo players play silly builds that just aren't good but that is more to do with events encouraging stupid builds than anything.
  
• That perception again has nothing to do with events and everything to do with the dynamics of the queues themselves. All of the other queues are meant to be "more competitive" since at least two of the three "higher end" plays have no skill based matchmaking that I know of. Does that mean that people grind events in quick play? Yes, but why would I grind anywhere else? It is simply inefficient to do it anywhere else unless they make the progress made in other modes count for more (which is probably a good idea).
  
• Faction play I can understand, but group queue I kinda doubt that it took that much because I think you overestimate how many people cared about the events in the first place. If we were talking about the "tournament" events then I definitely agree because you have to solo carry to get the good scores but I don't think those come up as often as they used to 6 years ago.

[Alreech]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 05 January 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

I've seen people throw their mechs away even in Faction Play, respawn, limited respawn, no-respawn, it doesn't really matter. Respawn is nice when you are still learning the game but at some point it gets you into bad habits that don't translate over to no respawn the same way being a PUG star does not translate to good play in comp play.

You can "throw away" your Mech in Quickplay and respawn ASAP with a new Mech in a new match. And yes, this lead to a bad habbit.

Quote

This legitimately has nothing to do with events. I've never been in a group that changed their playstyle dramatically for an event. That said I've seen more solo players play silly builds that just aren't good but that is more to do with events encouraging stupid builds than anything.

No, the Group doesn't changed it's play style, Group players drop into Solo with "silly builds" to farm the event.

Quote

Does that mean that people grind events in quick play? Yes, but why would I grind anywhere else? It is simply inefficient to do it anywhere else unless they make the progress made in other modes count for more (which is probably a good idea).

Grinding in Solo Quickplay is better because you don't have to wait on the rest of your group to leave the match.
You can spawn ASAP with a new Mech (build for farming AMS, LRM damage or Kill Assists, ect) in a new match.
Also you don't have to care about the rest of the team in Solo Quickplay, unlike your buddys in a Group they arn't on your team the next match.

[Sare204]

Themed Mech packs:
Clan Faction Pack, Inner Sphere House Pack: 4 Favored Mechs(Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault)
Light packs, Medium packs, Heavy packs, Assault Packs (Clan / Inner Sphere)
Chassis packs as they exist currently, but add all chassis currently in game.
Allow players to "Hero" a single variant (30% C-Bill bonus) for MC
Standardize individual color MC cost, Reduce cost slightly 800MC?
Add Themed Color Packs (i/e Warframe)
Themed bolt on packs.
Add Finish Layer (Matte, Gloss, Metallic, Iridescent, Pearlescent, Battle-Worn)
Improve C-bill/XP boosting addons to make it worth MC investment, (Make them One shots.)

Edited by Sare204, 11 January 2021 - 05:36 PM.

[William Benoldi]

Perhaps it is possible to edit decals ( creating your very own unit insignia ) using a small editor, with given elements, coloring. Each Element has its prize perhabs capping at a maximum. After creating you can allow buying in general ( approval required? ) or unit only.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alreech, on 06 January 2021 - 05:50 AM, said:

You can "throw away" your Mech in Quickplay and respawn ASAP with a new Mech in a new match. And yes, this lead to a bad habbit.

Respawn or no respawn or keeping a team doesn't actually change that behavior. Also I can't even remember were you saying this is an issue with respawn vs no respawn or events because I don't know who is throwing their mech away for an event, that's kinda counterproductive.

Alreech, on 06 January 2021 - 05:50 AM, said:

No, the Group doesn't changed it's play style, Group players drop into Solo with "silly builds" to farm the event.

What silly build is better at farming unless the event has stupid requirements like the AMS missile destroyed from the most recent events? Things like match score, assists, kills, etc are better without "silly" builds.

Alreech, on 06 January 2021 - 05:50 AM, said:

Grinding in Solo Quickplay is better because you don't have to wait on the rest of your group to leave the match.

If you are dying that fast chances aren't good for your grinding.

Alreech, on 06 January 2021 - 05:50 AM, said:

You can spawn ASAP with a new Mech (build for farming AMS, LRM damage or Kill Assists, ect) in a new match.
Also you don't have to care about the rest of the team in Solo Quickplay, unlike your buddys in a Group they arn't on your team the next match.

Playing as a team generally gives you better results overall (granted there is a turning point where this does become more detrimental than solo), Tournament esque events that they used to do a lot definitely are better solo because you need the super carry matches to win those.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 06 January 2021 - 03:33 PM.

[ambosen]

Crazy idea. Raise the number of skillpoints you can spend on a mech to an even 100.

This will make it slightly more obvious to players, both old and new that they can literally buy GSP to skill up mechs as a relatively easy, and for the most part inexpensive monetization friendly shortcut. It also has the added benefit that it'll put 9 more skill points on average into distribution, encouraging more experimentation by users, and likely encouraging older players back into play, which can only help the bottom line in the end.

God knows I've been tempted to buy a GSP pack as a shortcut only to change my mind when I realized I'd have 9 points left over and no idea what to do with them until I had a new mech many times.

Likewise, either a permanent option to purchase multiple mechbays relatively cheaply without having to go through the additional step of purchasing MC, the additional steps of the gifting system, ect or possibly getting rid of the mechbay requirement entirely.

And yes, I already know that option will be unpopular with some players who are heavily invested in on mechbays, but you could probably keep them happy with some sort of loyallty bonus for what they'd purchased previously were you to get rid of that system. Likely especially if it scaled with the number of previous mechbay purchases.

Basically, just come up with ways to make your existing monetization system both physically easier to use, and also easier for users to justify to themselves.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Honeybadgers, on 01 January 2021 - 06:38 PM, said:

The few players I got to try the game were interested, but as soon as they saw the cost of each mech pack, they thought it was a predatory game and just bailed immediately.

It's not only Mech packs that are insane. Let's assume you are a new player and you want to pimp out your shiny new favourite Mech. You want it to have a different colour, want a new Warhorn and a new camo. So you click on colours and notice they are 1000 MC per colour. You click through a few camo's and see they are 750 to 1250 MC. Then you go pick up a warhorn, which is yet again 1000 MC. You notice that you need 3-5K MC to fit out the Mech as you like and check what MC costs. You see a price tag of 15 USD to buy 3000 MC. That's the point when you scratch your head and go "You know what, nevermind."

I have some camo's I really like and a couple of warhorns I enjoy. If the stuff was more affordable, I would buy it. But I am not going to spend 5 USD per Warhorn. I am not going to spend 100 USD to make the 20 Mechs I actually play go "Vroom Vroom" or "Meep Meep" when I kill something.

I would make purely cosmetic things much more affordable. Maybe 1 USD a pop for Warhorns, etc.

And I would want much more of a benefit from spending 70 USD on Mechs, so my suggestion would be to make all of them S-Variants. If you buy the Crab pack, you should not be forced to play the 27 when you need money. You should be able to play whatever you enjoy. This would give newer people a leg up and help them lower the costs for upgrades, as they do earn more than before. It might make people more interested in buying a starter Mech Pack.And the longtime players mostly have insane amounts of CBills anyway.

[PocketYoda]

I would really like and pay for Davion, Steiner, Clan Wolf, Clan Star Adder packs etc, 4 mechs that the said house or clan were known for and a skin a few colors decals warhorns etc..

I think personally they would sell Especially if they were Faction War aimed imo.

A lot more interesting than Nascar etc, what is Nascar outside of the USA honestly many have very little interest internationally in Nascar.

Edited by Samial, 11 January 2021 - 01:23 AM.

[Alreech]

Samial, on 11 January 2021 - 01:21 AM, said:

I would really like and pay for Davion, Steiner, Clan Wolf, Clan Star Adder packs etc, 4 mechs that the said house or clan were known for and a skin a few colors decals warhorns etc..

Packs with Faction Colors, Camo Patterns, Warhorn and Faction Decals are in the store since late 2014.
You can redeem them in the store after buying the Resistance & Clan Wave II & III Mechpacks.

And since 2014 it was suggested in the forum to sell the Packs seperate from the Mechpacks, without PGI listening...

Quote

I think personally they would sell Especially if they were Faction War aimed imo.

PGI groomed the MWO playerbase with Quickplay to not care about factions.

In quickplay you don't have any factions, so why bothering with faction colors & stuff?

Quote

A lot more interesting than Nascar etc, what is Nascar outside of the USA honestly many have very little interest internationally in Nascar.

NASCAR in MWO is a slur to describe the simplest working tactic in the uncoordinated 12 vs 12 mess called quickplay.

I have my doubt that even real nascar fans playing MWO would spend money on a NASCAR pack.
MWO wouldn't even be allowed to sell a NASCAR pack without license of the NASCAR.

[VileKnight]

Alreech, on 05 January 2021 - 04:49 AM, said:

According to good players (high tier) Groups kill the fun in Solo, especially for new players.
According to good players (high tier) Solo Quickplay is the most successfull game mode in MWO

I don't even know where to start with this post. I am floored that you really thought this was something to push for.

So, since the "high tier players" have deemed it so, we must follow? How about no. How about you provide some actual data to back up these outlandish ideas of yours. Just randomly citing faceless "high tier" players to back up your idea is not going to hold water.

Alreech, on 05 January 2021 - 04:49 AM, said:

So let's remove the groups and the unsuccessfull game modes, and hordes of new Solo Players will storm quickplay, won't they?

Do you have any data or metrics to support your claim that groups are unsuccessful? How about any data that "hordes of new solo players" will suddenly join MWO. Last I checked, we are getting a good chunk of new players now WITH groups and these "unsuccessful" game modes.

I'll happily wait for you to provide the data to back this up. Please enlighten me.

Alreech, on 05 January 2021 - 04:49 AM, said:

As most of the good Solo Players don't spend much money on Mechpacks (most of the Mechs are useless in Quickplay, and skilling them up ruins your K/D, match score and may reduce your tier) charging a monthly fee would be the best way of monetization.

It's obvious that you didn't realize (or just don't give a rip) that not all of the players obsess with their K/D, or their tier. These arguments might be better suited for hardcore COD players, but this isn't COD.

Most of the good solo players? Again, what data do you have to support this, and how many is "most of the good solo players"? What is that in relation to the people who are not "good solo players?" Why on earth would PGI go to a subscription model for this supposed small elite group and piss off the rest of the player base?

Charging a monthly fee is a horrendously bad idea. It would be an absolute slap in the face to the player base, and would put a screeching halt to this renewed interest in the game that we have seen over the past 3 months.

Edited by VileKnight, 19 January 2021 - 07:33 PM.

[AnimePops]

I honestly would prefer not to see Earth 2021 pop culture (or NASCAR) in my scify Mechwarrior universe. If it were just a random mech game, sure, but this is a universe with massive lore and backstory. I would find it kind of immersion breaking. Not a deal breaker, just a preference.

[PocketYoda]

Alreech, on 11 January 2021 - 03:48 AM, said:

Packs with Faction Colors, Camo Patterns, Warhorn and Faction Decals are in the store since late 2014.
You can redeem them in the store after buying the Resistance & Clan Wave II & III Mechpacks.

And since 2014 it was suggested in the forum to sell the Packs seperate from the Mechpacks, without PGI listening...


PGI groomed the MWO playerbase with Quickplay to not care about factions.

In quickplay you don't have any factions, so why bothering with faction colors & stuff?


NASCAR in MWO is a slur to describe the simplest working tactic in the uncoordinated 12 vs 12 mess called quickplay.

I have my doubt that even real nascar fans playing MWO would spend money on a NASCAR pack.
MWO wouldn't even be allowed to sell a NASCAR pack without license of the NASCAR.

I meant packs we can buy.. not having to drop hundreds on a mech bundle to get those cosmetics, that said i know what Nascar is here and in USA both are pointless.

I meant faction war themed mechs designed and ready to go in faction war.. as in really high damage mechs etc. Anyway i was just trying to help this dead game out.

[Alreech]

Samial, on 21 January 2021 - 05:59 PM, said:

I meant packs we can buy.. not having to drop hundreds on a mech bundle to get those cosmetics, that said i know what Nascar is here and in USA both are pointless.

I meant faction war themed mechs designed and ready to go in faction war.. as in really high damage mechs etc. Anyway i was just trying to help this dead game out.

But PGI want's to sell you 20 - 80 $ Mech Packs instead 5$ Faction Packs with colors, decals & other cosmetics.

PGI could have selled that kind of cosmetic packs since 2014, the function to redeem such stuff is in the store, but they don't want it.

[Will9761]

Samial, on 21 January 2021 - 05:59 PM, said:

I meant faction war themed mechs designed and ready to go in faction war.. as in really high damage mechs etc. Anyway i was just trying to help this dead game out.

I wouldn't mind seeing more Faction based mechs for MWO. I still want to see the Sha Yu, Men Shen and Yu Huang for House Liao. As for House Marik, give them the Perseus, Hammer and Anvil.