8 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

"Without wanting to spoil everyone’s joy with a hasty spoiler in the first sentence: AMD is also back in GPUs. And how! Nevertheless, despite all the euphoria about the enormous performance boost, one must remain fair and consider the entire pixel cosmos: performance (rasterization, DXR, compute), feature set, electrical as well as mechanical implementation and the drivers. This makes today’s article a bit more complex and also not easier, even if for various reasons not everything could be fully tested. But there is also a solution for such a thing: the Follow-Ups!"
https://www.igorslab...rent-in-detail/


Video (German):

Edited by Thorqemada, 18 November 2020 - 12:40 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Imo its either 6800XT if you weight lightly the RT features or its 3070/80 if you are heavy into RT - the 6800 non XT has no attractive price nor performance!

Edited by Thorqemada, 18 November 2020 - 08:45 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

The RX 6800 handily defeats the RTX 3070, by a larger margin than the RTX 3080 defeats the RX 6800 XT.

It's effectively proportional gains across proportional price increases. RTX 3070 is $500, RX 6800 is $580, RX 6800 XT is $650, and RTX 3080 is $700, and the price difference has a pretty good correlation to the performance difference. Frankly, if you can swing $650 for a GPU it doesn't make much sense to not just spring for the RTX 3080 unless you really want an all-AMD computer. If you are sticking to a price-point, and sub-600 is your price point, the RX 6800 is the best card you can buy unless you want better ray-tracing performance.

[ImperialKnight]

The 6800 does NOT beat the 3070 hands on. Check out benchmarks across multiple YouTube channels.

And that's even before turning on DLSS. And not to mention the 3070 is $80 cheaper. And do you really want to deal with AMD's flaky driver support? What you're paying for with Nvidia is the software.

AMD kind of let Ryzen's success get to their heads. Their GPUs are not at a point where they can price it this way.

[Thorqemada]

Well, at this current pricepoint i feel that you wont accept the pretty significant performance differences between the 6800XT and the 6800 non XT.

The 6800XT offers more RAM than the NVidia products and is on par in any non RTX environment if not on top while it still holds its ground at close to ~3070 level RT while the 6800 non XT falls way behind and has a HIGHER price per FPS than the 6800XT (depends a bit on the currency and the test choices as well as the resolution).

That makes me stand with my reasoning that the 6800 makes non sense if it is not reduced in price to at most 529 bucks, at 500 bucks it would a clear buy to me or it comes out you can easily bios mode the GPU up to XT level and you dare to play the GPU lottery.

It seems to me that there is aparently difference how price to vaiue is percived on some of the reviews like Jays 2 Cent who would recommend the 6800.
But you cant get a better CPU for that 70 bucks pricedifference like Jays or Rogue and Tech recommend that makes you have that much more FPS while you definetively get a significantly better performance from the 6800XT.

PS: And as above post states - while NVidia has reached pretty good beta status for its RT solution AMD is still at an immature Alpha stage currently which will change over time but probably RT will start to get steam in one or two more generations of GPU updates.

Edited by Thorqemada, 18 November 2020 - 11:41 PM.

[Thorqemada]

About the 6800:

[Y E O N N E]

Bitwit has an i n c r e d i b l y narrow set of benchmark titles. Hardware Unboxed came to the opposite conclusion testing a vastly larger suite of games. Ditto Tom's Hardware. Ditto Gamer's Nexus. Etc.

ImperialKnight, on 18 November 2020 - 10:54 PM, said:

The 6800 does NOT beat the 3070 hands on. Check out benchmarks across multiple YouTube channels.

I would suggest you take your own advice, because it definitely does:

Tom's Hardware.

Gamer's Nexus.

Ars Technica

Hardware Unboxed

...do I need to keep linking sources? Because they all show the 6800 generally trouncing the 3070.

Quote

And that's even before turning on DLSS. And not to mention the 3070 is $80 cheaper. And do you really want to deal with AMD's flaky driver support? What you're paying for with Nvidia is the software.

AMD kind of let Ryzen's success get to their heads. Their GPUs are not at a point where they can price it this way.

I've had flakey driver support from both brands in equal measure, so I'm not even going to go there. DLSS is definitely a boon for Nvidia, but it's also still not a universally useful tool. I already acknowledged the vastly superior ray tracing from Nvidia. If all you want is strong conventional performance though, which is what I said above, the 6800 is objectively the stronger card.

[Thorqemada]

Gamer Nexus actually did not really recommend the card as they feel the same - the pricepoint of the 6800 does not make any sense!

Hardware Unboxed...yeah...i usually do respect their work but i mean...really...its mentioned very often in their Video that the 6800 is a sub 600 Dollar Card playing in a completely different pricecategory than the 6800XT and i honestly do not see that aside of the psychology of pricing.

In fact the difference between the 6800 and 6800XT is 70 Dollar, that is a little over 10% less for the 6800 which really at that high price is NOT a wholy different price category and i felt as if Hardware Unboxed was trying to convince themself by mentioning it quite often.

The Benchmarks where not convincing to me, the 6800XT in many Benchmarks scales better with faster systems than the 6800 and on top the 6800 misses quite often some thresholds that a card at that pricepoint should reach that the 6800XT meets or exceeds.

Yeah, its not THAT much but it like in high jumping - you make the jump or you fail the jump and to me the 6800XT regularly makes the jump for a mere 70 Dollars on top while the 6800 regularly fails the jump while its priced close to 600 Dollar which is unacceptable.


Its really a stark difference in the percived value and a difference psychology of percived pricing and again, i feel at 50 Dollar less the 6800 would START to be a convincing offer!

Toms Hardware and Ars Technica i did not read so far...Igor from Igorslab is the former german Toms Hardware outlet and i like the quality of his work while for a non german its probably very hard to understand language wise as the nuances probably get lost especially in an automated translation.

TLDR - we agree to disagree

PS: In RT + DLSS Scenarios the 3070 devastates the 6800 by several hundreds of percent and that sceanrio will probably increase if NVidia sticks to that approach which is highly likely to me.

Edited by Thorqemada, 19 November 2020 - 08:43 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Risitas about the 6800 Paperlaunch (probably it needs a new term bcs technically it was not a Paperlaunch - something like a "Micro Launch" or so)
THIS is BRUTAL, Engineer REACTS to the AMD RX 6000 LAUNCH (Meme) - YouTube