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Release The Imp And Mixtech

Weapons Balance BattleMechs

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#1 ScummVM

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM

I think it is time for mixtech
A Mechwarrior game set in Battletech universe without mixtech doesnt even feel like a Mechwarrior game to me anymore
It is time to finally give us access to mixtech and the first chassis release that should come out alongside with a mixtech update should be the Imp
Why the Imp for the first mech to pioneer a possible mixtech update?
Well because it was the first mech ever produced by Clan Wolf and the first variants were still equipped with the SLDF technology and weapons that left the Inner Sphere with the Exodus force
But later was upgraded to use what we now consider clan technology that became available only centuries later since the Exodus

From Sarna:

Quote

The first original BattleMech produced by Clan Wolf, the Imp was first seen by the Inner Sphere in the ranks of Wolf's Dragoons. It is designed with weapons that can engage an enemy at a multitude of ranges.



As for variants the Imp 1A, Imp 1B and Imp 1C should come with stock Inner Sphere tech
And the later variants should come stock with clantech: the Imp 2E, Imp 4E and the Imp C, the last one being the peak of the Imp chassis as it was fully upgraded with non-Star League era tech and given to the Wolf's Dragoons as command mech chassis to bring to the Inner Sphere in their scouting/assessment mission of the Inner Sphere forces and bring back data that the Clans needed to plan their invasion of 3050
All these variants should have access to both IS and Clan technology gear and weapons and be able to swap them at will in the mechlab and mix them

From Sarna about the Wolf's Dragoons variant of the Imp:

Quote

Imp C
This upgrade of the Imp is built exclusively for Wolf's Dragoons using only Clan technology. The 'Mech is armed with two ER PPCs and an LRM-20 launcher with an Artemis IV Fire Control System for long range combat. For close ranges, the 'Mech carries five Medium Pulse Lasers. The Imp C is also armored with nineteen tons of armor.


I think a massive Mixtech Update sent out alongside with the Imp release as mechpack is the only way to save the game now and bring old players back and maybe new players in
This of course alongside a massive quirk rebalance pass tuned especially for mixtech

Posted ImagePosted Image

#2 SirSmokes

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 12:49 AM

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think it is time for mixtech
A Mechwarrior game set in Battletech universe without mixtech doesnt even feel like a Mechwarrior game to me anymore
It is time to finally give us access to mixtech and the first chassis release that should come out alongside with a mixtech update should be the Imp
Why the Imp for the first mech to pioneer a possible mixtech update?
Well because it was the first mech ever produced by Clan Wolf and the first variants were still equipped with the SLDF technology and weapons that left the Inner Sphere with the Exodus force
But later was upgraded to use what we now consider clan technology that became available only centuries later since the Exodus

From Sarna:



As for variants the Imp 1A, Imp 1B and Imp 1C should come with stock Inner Sphere tech
And the later variants should come stock with clantech: the Imp 2E, Imp 4E and the Imp C, the last one being the peak of the Imp chassis as it was fully upgraded with non-Star League era tech and given to the Wolf's Dragoons as command mech chassis to bring to the Inner Sphere in their scouting/assessment mission of the Inner Sphere forces and bring back data that the Clans needed to plan their invasion of 3050
All these variants should have access to both IS and Clan technology gear and weapons and be able to swap them at will in the mechlab and mix them

From Sarna about the Wolf's Dragoons variant of the Imp:



I think a massive Mixtech Update sent out alongside with the Imp release as mechpack is the only way to save the game now and bring old players back and maybe new players in
This of course alongside a massive quirk rebalance pass tuned especially for mixtech

Posted ImagePosted Image


It will never work the game balanced on none mix tech. That that a hell of a post for your first post Posted Image

Edited by SirSmokes, 20 November 2020 - 05:45 AM.


#3 The6thMessenger

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 12:56 AM

No to mix-tech until there is proper techbase balance. Right now, balance relies on so much quirks that, if Is could take Clan tech, IS tech and clan-mechs would only be a liability.

#4 Gagis

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 01:15 AM

Mixtech is impossible to balance and Imp is a meme derivative of an old meme mech that itself should have died already.

[Redacted]

#5 martian

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 01:32 AM

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think it is time for mixtech
A Mechwarrior game set in Battletech universe without mixtech doesnt even feel like a Mechwarrior game to me anymore

The primary reason for mixed tech in older MechWarrior and MechCommander games was to balance things out because the player faced more and more enemies in stronger and stronger Clan 'Mechs and vehicles while progressing through the campaign and through the story driven game. To give him a chance, he had to be able to mount salvaged Clan weapons and Clan equipment on his Inner Sphere 'Mechs.

But in MWO this is not the case. Quite on the contrary, introducing mixed tech would further imbalance the gameplay in MWO.

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

It is time to finally give us access to mixtech and the first chassis release that should come out alongside with a mixtech update should be the Imp
Why the Imp for the first mech to pioneer a possible mixtech update?
Well because it was the first mech ever produced by Clan Wolf and the first variants were still equipped with the SLDF technology and weapons that left the Inner Sphere with the Exodus force
But later was upgraded to use what we now consider clan technology that became available only centuries later since the Exodus

The Imp is an obscure design given by some BattleTech writers to their favorite Mary Suish faction.

You practically never see one in the normal game and I do not think that many BattleTech players even know about this 'Mech and they care even less..

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think a massive Mixtech Update sent out alongside with the Imp release as mechpack is the only way to save the game now and bring old players back and maybe new players in

Russ Bullock said that Mech Packs do not sell anymore. That's why PGI no longer bothers with creating them and offering them.

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

This of course alongside a massive quirk rebalance pass tuned especially for mixtech

Magnificent. So once some resemblance of balance in MWO has been reached finally, you suggest to throw everything out of the window so you can get your special snowflake 'Mech ...

Do you realize that allowing the players to cherrypick the best IS and Clan items and combine them on their meta-closest chassis would create some of the most balance-breaking 'Mechs in MWO, exactly as it already does in BattleTech?

#6 Sir Helbrecht

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 02:33 AM

View PostScummVM, on 20 November 2020 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think it is time for mixtech


IS quirks and Clan weapuns?
yes, let's kill the game completely.LoL

Edited by Sir Helbrecht, 20 November 2020 - 02:34 AM.


#7 Mighty Spike

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 03:07 AM

View PostSir Helbrecht, on 20 November 2020 - 02:33 AM, said:


IS quirks and Clan weapuns?
yes, let's kill the game completely.LoL


^That Mixtech doesnt solve any problems, it creates just more and the last what we need is more problems

Just a Big NOPE for mixtech

Mixtech would be the final Reason for me to quit the game after 8years here

Edited by Mighty Spike, 20 November 2020 - 03:09 AM.


#8 Scout Derek

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 04:59 AM

lol no. mixtech bad.

I highly doubt you want to see the most cancerous/annoying weapon types mingle together into a morbid and horrifying creation. example;



#9 BlaizerP

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 06:32 AM

No.

#10 RickySpanish

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 07:08 AM

I'ma wager this is a rather good troll. 10/10 would demand swoll Urbie again.

#11 Bud Crue

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 07:16 AM

I think people are getting way to out of touch with the state of the game and PGI's/Daeron's assertions/efforts of looking for low hanging fruit to better monetize the game. They can't even decide to move new players down to tier 4.5 and yet people think new mechs and mixtech are possible? Just stop. We will be lucky to get a bit of a balance pass, and maybe some minor optimizations to help with the NPE but anything else is a pipe dream and anyone who has been paying attention knows it.

We are not getting mix-tech...ever...in this game. We are likely not getting more than a single new mech, and even that sole mech is merely a discussion point and not a promise. We are not getting procedural or community generated maps. We might get one more, and that's only if they figure out a way to make the monetization thing pay off. We are not getting new weapons, armor types, pilot animations, or any other additions that would require substantive programing. We might get some .xml changes to the stuff we currently have and even that might not be for the better.

Mods should just start a new forum area for "Unrealistic pipe dreams for the game you would like, but not this PGI game."

#12 I O O percent KongLord

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 08:32 AM

CRinge

#13 Miss Greene

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 06:21 PM

The literal only implementation of MixTech I would support is R-variants of IS Omnis having Clan weapons, and that's only if:
1. They can only use Clan weapons if running a complete Set of 8 R-variant omnipods
2. When using Clan weapons, they can only use Clan weapons and cannot mix with IS weapons
3. Any piece of equipment that isn't a damage-dealing laser, ballistic, or missile weapon or its corresponding ammo is still IS gear (i.e. IS DHS, IS XLs, IS TAG, IS Targeting Comps, etc.)

Those 'Mechs would actually be somewhat gimpy because they won't have the podspace to fit enough DHS to cool those toasty Clan weapons to the same degree the real Clanners can. There is no other in-universe analog to these 'Mechs, certainly no Clan version that could be so limited.

#14 LordNothing

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 10:59 PM

i support limited mixtech via quirks and only on certain mechs. pretty sure i saw some jihad mechs running clantech (caelestis variants of the celestial series), so its lore. those mechs would have a quirk that enables clantech on a certain hardpoint. quirk would limit what component, what type and how many you can have.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 November 2020 - 11:04 PM.


#15 Squiggy McPew

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 11:09 PM

I'll take a clan urbie. Posted Image

#16 martian

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 11:18 PM

View PostMiss Greene, on 20 November 2020 - 06:21 PM, said:

The literal only implementation of MixTech I would support is R-variants of IS Omnis ..

View PostLordNothing, on 20 November 2020 - 10:59 PM, said:

i support limited mixtech via quirks and only on certain mechs. pretty sure i saw some jihad mechs running clantech (caelestis variants of the celestial series) ...


We are not going to get Inner Sphere OmniMechs any time soon.

#17 LordNothing

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 11:23 PM

View Postmartian, on 20 November 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:


We are not going to get Inner Sphere OmniMechs any time soon.


that all depends whether or not pgi will start selling mechpacks again. but i dont think they are going to do anything that will make the game stop dying.

#18 The Lighthouse

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Posted 20 November 2020 - 11:51 PM

View PostBud Crue, on 20 November 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

I think people are getting way to out of touch with the state of the game and PGI's/Daeron's assertions/efforts of looking for low hanging fruit to better monetize the game. They can't even decide to move new players down to tier 4.5 and yet people think new mechs and mixtech are possible? Just stop. We will be lucky to get a bit of a balance pass, and maybe some minor optimizations to help with the NPE but anything else is a pipe dream and anyone who has been paying attention knows it.

We are not getting mix-tech...ever...in this game. We are likely not getting more than a single new mech, and even that sole mech is merely a discussion point and not a promise. We are not getting procedural or community generated maps. We might get one more, and that's only if they figure out a way to make the monetization thing pay off. We are not getting new weapons, armor types, pilot animations, or any other additions that would require substantive programing. We might get some .xml changes to the stuff we currently have and even that might not be for the better.

Mods should just start a new forum area for "Unrealistic pipe dreams for the game you would like, but not this PGI game."

I mean, the reason I am also pushing Mixtech as well is because it actually fits PGI's behaviour and desires well.


They obviously do not want to spend any further efforts, but the game still needs SOME KIND OF "NEW" CONTENTS to keep the wheel going. Mixtech perfectly fits into PGI really well. You get some good amount of "new" contents but without any hardwork. Avoiding hardworks is the key factor for PGI. At this point putting mixtech into the game probably costs less and less time-consuming compared to even make a new mech because I suspect PGI probably now has no more engineering staff left for MWO, most likely out-sourcing personal for modifications.

So at this point this became viable now.


And that silly Annihilator video is meaningless, PGI can just remove all quirks anyway, and tbh let's be honest; this game really needs some reset badly, like 4 years ago. The mechs' quirks are in mess anyway because of residue of 8 years of balance decisions, like for instance light mechs with strong quirks because back in the day external heatsink was not as strong as internal heatsink, etc.

#19 Bud Crue

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 04:18 AM

View PostThe Lighthouse, on 20 November 2020 - 11:51 PM, said:

...
At this point putting mixtech into the game probably costs less and less time-consuming compared to even make a new mech because I suspect PGI probably now has no more engineering staff left for MWO, most likely out-sourcing personal for modifications.

So at this point this became viable now.
...


They need a few months to collect data, study it, and then be convinced by community discussion merely to consider moving new players into T4.5 rather than T3, and you think mix-tech is a viable, "without any hard work" change that PGI could or would institute? Ok.

Ignoring the issue of mix tech being a good idea or bad idea, lets just focus on PGI's proven capabilities. As a matter of historical precedent, PGI's last big effort at fixing something was the MM reset and before that a nearly two year long "effort" to revive Faction Play lead by Paul and his "team". All that effort and what was the scope of those changes? Some leader board tweaks, the ability to see how many players are stacking up in the queue, the ability to switch sides without penalty or wait, and not much else. No new tech, balance, maps, or changes to the basic mechanics of how the game is played.

This is the sort of effort PGI is willing to put forth and the level of changes they are capable of instituting when they have the express desire to actually try and fix something. This is not a slam, or me being cynical, this is merely reality. The faction play "revival" is the guidepost to PGI's current community effort to refresh and better monitize the game.

From that I think it is reasonable to conclude that PGI is not going to institute mix tech, nor or IS omnis, or anything else that would dramatically alter the basic game dynamic. Hell, the task of balancing such things alone, would be beyond what is viable for PGI (e.g. it took Chris a year and a half of near monthly balance passes to go from the introduction of the skill tree and civil war tech and his claim of "balance is the best it has ever been" to the current state of nearly everything being equally unfun; and yet you think mix tech would be something that could be viably instituted without hard work? Now? For PGI?

I'm sorry but I think that is just a tad overly optomistic given PGI's proven abilities and historical appetite for any sort of dramatic changes. I for one would be all for some sort of reset, refresh, or revival of the game that would attract old players and new ones alike. Such a "reset" however, will consist, at most, of a few tweeks here and there, a new player player starter mech pack offering, some price changes in the store, maybe a new mech and new map if the changes in the store bring in some spending, and little, if anything else; because that is what PGI has proven (and in Daeron's commentary of late, stated) that they are willing and capable of doing.

#20 Miss Greene

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Posted 21 November 2020 - 08:23 AM

View Postmartian, on 20 November 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:


We are not going to get Inner Sphere OmniMechs any time soon.


I am also not going to be buying any 'Mechs from PGI any time soon, I wonder if there is a correlation?





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