Brawling Is Perhaps Too Good
#1
Posted 22 November 2020 - 01:58 PM
#2
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:05 PM
quick play is for people to learn to ball up and run around together, it's not surprising high dps brawly stuff is good in this environment
if you're looking for gameplay different than that you can play comp or faction play
#3
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:26 PM
#4
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:30 PM
#5
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:39 PM
Heavy Money, on 22 November 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:
shoot the legs, not the torso (where most people miss and hit the arms)
#6
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:57 PM
Hazeclaw, on 22 November 2020 - 02:39 PM, said:
shoot the legs, not the torso (where most people miss and hit the arms)
I'm aware. But the difference in its upper body durability compared to other medium mechs is still significant. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if its balanced out by other factors, but it seems to have significant durability, firepower, speed, and mobility. Most of its peers only get a few of those.
(Note: I'm not necessarily calling for a nerf, just saying that issues with Assassins aren't necessarily a meta issue, they might just be an assassin issue. The described problems aren't happening with, say, Shadowcats or Ice Ferrets.)
Edited by Heavy Money, 22 November 2020 - 02:58 PM.
#7
Posted 22 November 2020 - 02:59 PM
#8
Posted 22 November 2020 - 03:23 PM
Heavy Money, on 22 November 2020 - 02:57 PM, said:
I'm aware. But the difference in its upper body durability compared to other medium mechs is still significant. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if its balanced out by other factors, but it seems to have significant durability, firepower, speed, and mobility. Most of its peers only get a few of those.
(Note: I'm not necessarily calling for a nerf, just saying that issues with Assassins aren't necessarily a meta issue, they might just be an assassin issue. The described problems aren't happening with, say, Shadowcats or Ice Ferrets.)
it doesn't have very good firepower
#10
Posted 23 November 2020 - 07:51 AM
As for the Nascaring, people have complained about it over 5 years ago, so your frustration is nothing new.
I myself make it a point to go the other direction just to shake things up a bit. Sometimes when you go left as a team the other team doesn't expect it at all and you ROFLstomp them, or there is a spectacular fight. Its alot of fun.
All we need for the game is new maps and new spawn points, but PGI has not delivered, and that is why gameplay is the way it is, it gets stale.
Edited by Lonewolf71, 23 November 2020 - 07:53 AM.
#11
Posted 23 November 2020 - 08:32 AM
#12
Posted 23 November 2020 - 09:07 AM
Lockheed_, on 23 November 2020 - 09:05 AM, said:
There are so many people dropping with Riflemen, VGLs and Hellbringers these days. I feel there#s more long range combat going on then ever.
That's been my experience during prime time NA EST. Though I have dropped into EU prime time games occasionally and... Well, our beloved cousins across the pond certainly have their ways. Perhaps that's OP's experience
#13
Posted 23 November 2020 - 10:11 AM
This is why I very rarely play assaults, to much time trying to keep up and not enough time shooting.
Other things that play into it are epeen and hard point inflation.
Edited by Johny Rocket, 23 November 2020 - 10:15 AM.
#14
Posted 23 November 2020 - 10:38 AM
However, notice I said pugs not USING range. It's not the weapon systems that are the problem, it's that a lot of people can't use them properly (perhaps they have problems leading targets?). I very often see mechs with range like UAC5/10 MCII-Bs or worse AC2 mechs trying to fight at 200m. As a former splatcat player, unnecessarily entering SRM range is a credibility loss for me. Short range mechs need to work to close the distance, don't give it to them for free. Apply pressure when they try to close in, and make them pay by taking damage if they proceed.
#15
Posted 23 November 2020 - 08:30 PM
Edited by LordNothing, 23 November 2020 - 08:37 PM.
#17
Posted 26 November 2020 - 03:38 AM
Steel Claws, on 22 November 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:
Ranged builds ARE overnerfed, but the pugs in this game are not competent enough to realize it
Johny Rocket, on 23 November 2020 - 10:11 AM, said:
This is why I very rarely play assaults, to much time trying to keep up and not enough time shooting.
Other things that play into it are epeen and hard point inflation.
Then why back in the days, on same maps,when small brawling mechs weren't so overbuffed and ranged weapons had their dignity, ther was NO NASCAR???
nascar started when big mechs got overnerfed and ranged guns got killed
#18
Posted 26 November 2020 - 05:37 AM
The tactic and the tools are a snake biting his own tail.
There is a psychology of the new player, and almos everybody has similar aproacches to the game when starts.
The new players are sitting ducks the first matches. The dont know what the team is doing, where is going, and if they stay in a position die fast, and if they follow the team, die backstabbed in the nascar or by a pesky light. If their team is doing well, they are able to score some shots and feel proud of their 200 damage.
A new player has to learn to be used to the legs and torso independance, has to learn to lock targets, made a fast interpretation of the paper doll, take a decision about the optimal distance of his weapons, remember if the obstacles in the terrain can block or not his weapons.... And all this being aware of the cover around, the friendly mechs, and the geeneral mouvement of the team...
Clearly too much for a beguinner. To not speak about the comand wheel, the voip and the jargon used in this game. (Not everybody knows the internationa abreviatures, Alpha, eco, Tango Etc, by example)
So the newbie will gravitate the most part of the time to the same adaptative paths. The most part believe that this survability is not a positioning issue, but a mech choice and buy an Atlas as soon as posible. Others will think "Every time i show my face i get shredded, the solution is don´t be seen" the most informed will go to ECM mechs, but the main part become adorators of the Lurming cult.
All this description comes in hand to argue that Nascaring is not really a beguinners tactic. Is a medium level players tactic. Strongly reinforced with the structure of the maps.
Every medium player knows where to found easy preys. In the back of the enemy team. If you are not a pro, you have any motivation to be the first in face the better and most agresive players in the other team- Specially in the moment they are fresh and full of ammo. You want to clean snipers, lurmers and slow but heavy punch carriers... And score a little, before to dare to face the hard core fo the red team.
There is no special score in a match if your team wins because you stopped their elite and damaged them not a lot but in critical locations. Maybe the guy who opened the rear torso of a Vulcan piloted by a real good player, letting him vulnerable to a hit, did more for the victory than the lurmer supernova, despite the obscene difference in damage between them. The game dont rewards WHO you damage, and WHERE you focus your damage. The game rewards blind and brute damage...
This is another reason because brawling setups become popular. If a player wants to go up in tier he has to score more than the average of his team.
Two alphas and you have highter numbers than the guy sniping with 2 ppc ten minutes...
The main problem is... Someone has to win the match, and win the match is mainly negate the good players in the red team.
When long range weaponry was a thing in this game, before the ghosth heath penalty of PPc and gausses, the pro players complained about their team hiding behind a rock and being pasive.
Now the complain is the Nascar.
But the problem is more complex.
Its called " Every one trying to take the maximum profit of their level of skill and the tools they have"
#19
Posted 26 November 2020 - 09:30 AM
long range was overnerfed (because people who want to be in everyones face complained they can't just walk through open ground to close and totally wreck everything point blank complained)
mid range was overnerfed (because well both long range and brawling "specialists" complained)
various groups were always selfishly complaining about playstyles they don't play and get killed by, and everything was nerfed to suck equally, to some degree you could say balance has been achieved
#20
Posted 27 November 2020 - 09:25 PM
especially against those with bad network connections
Where HSR is at its worst
A mech moves 10metres@1000 metres range, one or two pixels change on your monitor
A mech moves 10metres@10 metres range, mech can cross your screen, 1080 pixels change on your monitor 1080p monitor
More for HSR to muck up
wish pgi would fix that rather than nerf brawling
Another example from experience is.
CT a mech to red at long range with two shots from fresh
At close range can't finish RED CT with 5 shots, crosshair flashy but not much damage.
So guys with good connections can be powerful brawlers vs those without good connections me thinks due to sheet reg reasons.
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