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Class And Tonnage Disparity

Balance BattleMechs General

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#1 Zuul the Burninator

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 12:31 PM

So this is a conversation I want to hear people’s thoughts on. More so just a gauge and thoughts thread. Let’s see what people say or think.

One of the things I have noticed over my time in MWO was the tonnage/class disparity in mech selection between both factions. What I mean more so is that when it comes to let’s say 100 ton assaults the IS has 5 in the Fafnir, Annihilator, King Crab, Atlas, and Marauder II, the clans only have 2 in the Kodiak and Direwolf. Granted now only some of these mechs are ever seen due to their quality, load outs, and hit boxes such as King Crabs being a rarely used mech(this is coming from my experience mind you). On the clan side the Kodiak is pretty much nonexistent, and dire wolves are situational at best due to their best load out being AC2 boats mostly.

With the potential for changes in MWO, and possibly the return of adding new mechs. Will we see this change happen where clans get more options in chassis, is it needed or are the clans ok with their mech selections, do they need more? This kind of difference spans every class, and every tonnage within the classes. What does everyone think?

This is purely a thoughts and opinions thread, not one to be inflammatory so let’s keep it civil and discuss it... wait, this is the MWO forums? Ha never mind someone will start something because they can!

Edited by Zuul the Burninator, 26 November 2020 - 12:34 PM.


#2 VonBruinwald

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:09 PM

View PostZuul the Burninator, on 26 November 2020 - 12:31 PM, said:

With the potential for changes in MWO, and possibly the return of adding new mechs. Will we see this change happen where clans get more options in chassis, is it needed or are the clans ok with their mech selections, do they need more? This kind of difference spans every class, and every tonnage within the classes. What does everyone think?


I'm ok with the IS currently having more options than the Clans and if I had it my way I'd create more IS mechs before adding any more Clan mechs.

Clan tech combined with OmniMechs offers a lot more design flexibility than IS battlemechs are capable of. This means you need more IS mechs to fill the same amount of roles/loadout configurations. I'm not saying things are perfect, as you noted with the 100 tonners there are some weight classes where there is an imbalance. As for why I'd add more IS mechs before Clan mechs. Again, Omnimechs, the IS are shoe-horned into one specific type of mech where as the Clans have the choice. Giving the IS Omnimechs would open up a lot of potential and potentially close a lot of arguments as to which is better. But this won't happen due to the tech (in)balance, which brings me back to why we need more IS mechs. Quirks. Quirks are what make IS mechs viable, without them the meta would heavily favor Clan mechs. PGI's method of quirking for viability is very hit and miss, some mechs are quirked to "Top Tier" and others are left in the dust.

IMO: We need to re-balance the tech to make IS Omnis viable and follow that up with a re-quirk of the under/overperformers.

Quirks should be for flavor, not to balance.

Edit: Just some thoughts on the subject.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 26 November 2020 - 02:10 PM.


#3 Zuul the Burninator

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:17 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 26 November 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:


I'm ok with the IS currently having more options than the Clans and if I had it my way I'd create more IS mechs before adding any more Clan mechs.

Clan tech combined with OmniMechs offers a lot more design flexibility than IS battlemechs are capable of. This means you need more IS mechs to fill the same amount of roles/loadout configurations. I'm not saying things are perfect, as you noted with the 100 tonners there are some weight classes where there is an imbalance. As for why I'd add more IS mechs before Clan mechs. Again, Omnimechs, the IS are shoe-horned into one specific type of mech where as the Clans have the choice. Giving the IS Omnimechs would open up a lot of potential and potentially close a lot of arguments as to which is better. But this won't happen due to the tech (in)balance, which brings me back to why we need more IS mechs. Quirks. Quirks are what make IS mechs viable, without them the meta would heavily favor Clan mechs. PGI's method of quirking for viability is very hit and miss, some mechs are quirked to "Top Tier" and others are left in the dust.

IMO: We need to re-balance the tech to make IS Omnis viable and follow that up with a re-quirk of the under/overperformers.

Quirks should be for flavor, not to balance.

Edit: Just some thoughts on the subject.


Perfectly sensible logic! I started this just to see what people say and think! Also can we both be amazed that we had a decent conversation just now? That... never happens here... lol

#4 VonBruinwald

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:21 PM

View PostZuul the Burninator, on 26 November 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

Perfectly sensible logic! I started this just to see what people say and think! Also can we both be amazed that we had a decent conversation just now? That... never happens here... lol


Wait, we can't have that........ you idiot!

#5 Zuul the Burninator

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:56 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 26 November 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:


Wait, we can't have that........ you idiot!


Well we were so close... yet so very far! But I do see the point that current balance weapons wise makes chassis balance and addition risky. Though I am a clan fanboy in lore... I sure would love to see a Salamander, Emperor, Crusader, Penetrator, or even the WoB Praeta make an appearance here... some day!

#6 w0qj

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 06:15 PM

<Disclaimer: When QP (Quick Play) starts to count total team/player tonnage again, I'll completely stop using LRM Assaults, so as to avoid affecting others.>

- - - - - - - - - -
Trust me, from what I've seen, the current PSR team matching only puts in "a minimum of 1 Assault" into the 12-man team. That's all it cares about team tonnage since July 2020.
I have never seen any 12-man team with "no Assault" mechs.

There was one game in particular where I was playing a pure LRM Annihilator and I was the only Assault in the entire 12-man team. The other side had mutilple Assaults. We got trounced (obviously).

Anyways, as a newcomer to MWO in July 2020 with no emotional baggage of what is a "Meta" build,
I've tried all sorts of LRM Assaults. (Flame me!)
LRM Fafnir
LRM Annihilator Mean Baby (hey, it's got missile quirks!)
LRM MAD-4HP

I've also tried all lots of Clan LRM Assaults (since many are OmniMechs).
LRM Dire Wolf
LRM Executioner
LRM Blood Asp
LRM Warhawk

Edited by w0qj, 26 November 2020 - 06:27 PM.


#7 My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 01:20 PM

I think on paper its something but in practice you don't notice it. Sure there are 5 IS 100t and 2 Clan 100t, but in practice you don't really see Atlas because they're bad currently, KGC to a lesser extent as well.

So its more like, 3.5 vs 2. This applies to every tonnage and can go both ways.

Now don't get me wrong, having variety is nice and there are underplayed mechs that do perform well but having variety for the sake of variety isn't really going to change much.

#8 Zuul the Burninator

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 08:41 PM

View Postjustcallme C L O U D, on 27 November 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

I think on paper its something but in practice you don't notice it. Sure there are 5 IS 100t and 2 Clan 100t, but in practice you don't really see Atlas because they're bad currently, KGC to a lesser extent as well.

So its more like, 3.5 vs 2. This applies to every tonnage and can go both ways.

Now don't get me wrong, having variety is nice and there are underplayed mechs that do perform well but having variety for the sake of variety isn't really going to change much.


I see what your saying, I only used the 100 tonners because I couldn't think of any others. I also agree, I'm not asking out of variety, variety doesn't help. Maybe with mech rescale being a possible change, engine desync, and other things involving mechs and loadouts then we'll see every chassis be viable. Sadly only time will tell, and maybe from there we'll see new chassis to fill gaps created by the changes. What's your thoughts on that?





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