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Limit Group Size To 4 Or 6 To Fix Faction Play


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#1 Rexxxxxxxxx

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 06:29 PM

If you want to fix faction play, then just limit the group sizes to 6 or even 4 players. Perhaps just lances can drop together. You'll have a good mix of pugs and advanced players in every game. This will prevent full 12 mans from killing the queue.

Games would be more unpredictable and fun.

#2 Nightbird

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 07:31 PM

You know that you can pick sides in FP right?

#3 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 08:05 PM

View PostRexxxxxxxxx, on 15 December 2020 - 06:29 PM, said:

If you want to fix faction play,

Posted Image

#4 Rexxxxxxxxx

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 08:53 PM

I know this goes against what we've been doing, but there is just too much of a tendency for everyone to pile onto a single group or side to avoid being rolled.

#5 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 09:08 PM

Full 12 mans against each other was the whole point of the queue. You notice since units were made pointless that the population has only gone down?

Gee its almost like the farther away we get from the glorious time that was phase 2 things only get worse?

#6 Rexxxxxxxxx

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 09:59 PM

It's very rare that we ever get a 12 man vs 12 man or close to it. The majority of the time its pug vs 12 man.

#7 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 15 December 2020 - 10:15 PM

View PostRexxxxxxxxx, on 15 December 2020 - 09:59 PM, said:

It's very rare that we ever get a 12 man vs 12 man or close to it. The majority of the time its pug vs 12 man.

Thats a problem that has only really become an issue over the last 3 1/2 years. Running into pug groups used to be rare. I wonder what happened 3 1/2 years ago to change things........ Oh right, This game killing disaster.



#8 Danjo San

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 02:33 AM

View PostRexxxxxxxxx, on 15 December 2020 - 06:29 PM, said:

If you want to fix faction play, then just limit the group sizes to 6 or even 4 players. Perhaps just lances can drop together. You'll have a good mix of pugs and advanced players in every game. This will prevent full 12 mans from killing the queue.

Games would be more unpredictable and fun.


I agree ... one of the problems killing the queue is that you'll get solos waiting and they wait and wait... then a 12man snatches their "You're next in line" spot and they are back to waiting ...
This is not going to help retain or grow a population.
Yes, they could get in LFG, yes they could find friends and units to drop with... but then they'd also need to find a group motivated to drop.
The merge of Group and Solo Q in Quickplay was necessary, as you couldn't find any more group drops in QP, without syncing up with a second group prior.
Pretty much the same thing is happening in FP at the moment.
Don't get me wrong. Limiting group size isn't going to "fix" the underlying issues. Limiting Group size is not going to stop people from syncing groups into the same side of the queue in hope to drop together.
But what it can do is actually open up a window that is a bit larger than the usual "We could only find 8, 9 or 10 to group up"

At this point in time, most groups I drop with are random players anyway. Limit Group sizes to 4 and actually stick to the priority spot advertised. Tough luck, if 4 solos have had priority, your 12 (3x4) man group will split 8/4.

#9 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 05:25 AM

Dont they realise, that at least for cw they will achive the opposite result. Cw does not hurt the qp MM. A. some dont play pq at all. B. Most only play cw in the eu and us main time (wait times less than 5 mins). No one (ok a few newbs, that don't understand pgi flawless interface) is sitting in que waiting while he could be helpful in qp mm! Most play a few round of qp until cw is active. Now imagine what happens to this group if pgi gates cw... Rocket science really.

Normally cw starts this way. A group of 5-6 start and some solos jump in the que, because they are sick of rotato or enough to attract enemy's. Red side notices, that there are guys in que and jump in as well. Then more teams recognize, that matches are kicking and the snowball effect is real.

If they rly want to change something, they should limit group size to 4, like in qp and programm a new match maker (money investmemt, so wont happen) and let people opt in for the modes qp and fw in the same mm (that means u can opt out as well, like old mode selection). And even this is a risky move, since u will hurt the group vs group fights.
Edited by Ignatius Audene, 14 December 2020 - 12:40 AM.

Little selfquote. Not sure if group limit would improve anything. Prob alone u will loose more players than u attract with the change. Most teams are already only 1-5. If pgi is willing to program an combined mm (fw que number must still be visible, otherwise people don't opt out of qp) it might be worth it (not in terms of results for pgi, mwo is far over the point of no return)

#10 evilelrond

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 06:42 AM

they should change the timer to go off every 30 minutes. itll group the people who are interested in fw into 2 drops/hr, and hopefully lead to multiple matches popping off simultaneously, ideally 1 or more lobby with the bigger groups and 1 or more with the pugs/smaller groups. then the "matchmaker" will have an easier time doing its job, as ideally more people will be in que simultaneously. and knowing when the que pops off will be easy regardless of timezone, if the last 2 numbers are 00 or 30 on your clock, its que time.

works on multiple levels, if you dont get a lobby you know you have 30 minutes to spend in qp or solaris were you can help with population, instead of sitting endlessly in que hoping to get a match. and since fw matches are 25mins each, plus 2mins in lobby, you get 2 mins between each match to mechlab, get a drink, or use the bathroom built in.

just my idea, its on a lost page in daerons 'features' chat but didnt get much traction, probably because i didnt post it on page 1. maybe yall can give it some replies and push for it. seems like a much better idea than putting fw in an event que. i think we all know based off the "year of factionplay" how often itll pop up there (spoiler, once a year on may 20th, if were lucky).

#11 ccrider

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 07:02 AM

What is actually going to happen this year is 1. They produce 1 new mech. It'll be for MW5 but they'll dump it into MWO for the a double dip cash grab. 2. "New map" will be putting old terra and caustic back in. 3. FP is dumped and they allow 12 man teams in QP. This will kill both queues and they can then happily drop MWO finally to fully concentrate on MW5 and a reborn Transverse. Boom; everyone's happy.


Except me. I'll have to figure out how to stay amused by switching skins on Ahri.

#12 LordNothing

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 02:24 PM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 15 December 2020 - 09:08 PM, said:

Full 12 mans against each other was the whole point of the queue. You notice since units were made pointless that the population has only gone down?

Gee its almost like the farther away we get from the glorious time that was phase 2 things only get worse?


wasn't it phase 2 that brought us the ultimate pointless beacon rush? i think it didn't start going down hill until they took the long tom out.

#13 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 02:30 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 16 December 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:


wasn't it phase 2 that brought us the ultimate pointless beacon rush? i think it didn't start going down hill until they took the long tom out.

No nothing, scouting was not a thing before phase 3.

#14 LordNothing

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 02:53 PM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 16 December 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

No nothing, scouting was not a thing before phase 3.


still nothing made a bunch of holdback potato pugs move than the raining death of the long tom, it was a thing of beauty.

#15 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 16 December 2020 - 10:01 PM

View Postevilelrond, on 16 December 2020 - 06:42 AM, said:

they should change the timer to go off every 30 minutes. itll group the people who are interested in fw into 2 drops/hr, and hopefully lead to multiple matches popping off simultaneously, ideally 1 or more lobby with the bigger groups and 1 or more with the pugs/smaller groups. then the "matchmaker" will have an easier time doing its job, as ideally more people will be in que simultaneously. and knowing when the que pops off will be easy regardless of timezone, if the last 2 numbers are 00 or 30 on your clock, its que time.

works on multiple levels, if you dont get a lobby you know you have 30 minutes to spend in qp or solaris were you can help with population, instead of sitting endlessly in que hoping to get a match. and since fw matches are 25mins each, plus 2mins in lobby, you get 2 mins between each match to mechlab, get a drink, or use the bathroom built in.
just my idea, its on a lost page in daerons 'features' chat but didnt get much traction, probably because i didnt post it on page 1. maybe yall can give it some replies and push for it. seems like a much better idea than putting fw in an event que. i think we all know based off the "year of factionplay" how often itll pop up there (spoiler, once a year on may 20th, if were lucky).


You should join pgi. Worst idea I have seen in a while. Pls keep it buried deeeeeeeeeep. Wait times in main eu are 2-5 mins. If people miss a drop with 30 they will simply log off. If this was a joke, it was a rly bad one. Pgi might read your ideas...(ok not)

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 16 December 2020 - 10:01 PM.


#16 evilelrond

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 06:36 AM

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 16 December 2020 - 10:01 PM, said:


You should join pgi. Worst idea I have seen in a while. Pls keep it buried deeeeeeeeeep. Wait times in main eu are 2-5 mins. If people miss a drop with 30 they will simply log off. If this was a joke, it was a rly bad one. Pgi might read your ideas...(ok not)


well, the alternatives pgi has been hinting at (in order of likelihood) are

1. making it part of an event que, so you can only play during the times pgi thinks enabling fw is a good idea
2. taking fw ofline indefinetly, alongside solaris
or
3. limiting fw to a few hours each day during each regions primetime

they arent going to just leave it alone, mainly because of people like OP complaining about premades. i, personally, would like to see fw move towards a place were its 12v12 again, like in cw 2.0, and tailored my suggestion towards facilitating that. but sure, let the pugs dominate the conversation. im positive thatll work out well for fw.

#17 LordNothing

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Posted 17 December 2020 - 05:04 PM

i bet we could have kept factions if we were willing to accept dynamic team sizes. 12v12 would still be the maximum and would be possible on say the clan-is front. but the liao-davion front might be limited to 4v4. qp could have been integrated through border skirmishes. while big unit play would mostly happen on the major fronts. skittle matches go to the periphery. inter clan battles would take on clan trial format, a border skirmish format would be used for battles between the is factions, clan-is border would take on the battle of tukayyid format. battles on solaris would take on the solaris format. essentially something for everyone on one unified faction map. keep the buckets but the number of players in each bucket is proportional to the size of the match played in those buckets.

of course that was before pgi lost the confidence of its customers and bled its playerbase like a sieve (assuming the holes were player size or sufficient mechanical force was applied) and had money and programmers, and a will to do anything other than collect mechpack money.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 December 2020 - 05:07 PM.


#18 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 18 December 2020 - 01:28 AM

Limit to 4 or 6? You do know that the Faction queue is significantly more quieter than QP? I can easily just sync drop groups of 4/6-mans and we would be in the same match. 'Un-nerfing' units, providing a proper social hub for players to meet like-minded others and providing community resources for people interested in Faction Play would be a good start.

A guide for Faction Play can be found under my signature, for those who are interested.

#19 Cichol Balor

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 04:13 AM

They need to go back to promoting FP as the unit option not go further away from it. I would argue it should require you to form at least a group of 6 if not 12 to queue up.

You're a solo who wants to join? hit that LFG button now there is another way for units to recruit and grow and you always have groups against groups without leaving out the solo guy.

View PostCichol Balor, on 14 January 2021 - 04:11 AM, said:

They need to go back to promoting FP as the unit option not go further away from it. I would argue it should require you to form at least a group of 6 if not 12 to queue up.

You're a solo who wants to join? hit that LFG button now there is another way for units to recruit and grow and you always have groups against groups without leaving out the solo guy. On top of this going back to properly rewarding units and facilitating them on the community end would help FP and the game as a whole. One of the best ways to build player retention is to make it rewarding and easy to play with, work with and, commit to others.



#20 50 50

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 06:37 PM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 15 December 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:

Thats a problem that has only really become an issue over the last 3 1/2 years. Running into pug groups used to be rare. I wonder what happened 3 1/2 years ago to change things........ Oh right, This game killing disaster.




There's some good stuff there.





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