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Why Nobody Plays Solaris


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#21 Bad Karma 989

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 04:55 PM

View PostLehv, on 27 December 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

Solaris doesn't have enough players to split everyone into 7 different divisions...


You got that wrong from the beginning. It should have started out like this:

"MWO doesn't have enough players to RUN Solaris."

#22 Mochyn Pupur

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 02:39 AM

Or even better; MWO doesn't have enough players who ever wanted to play a highly niche mode that was a failed attempt to get into e-sports but was never going to work, that S7 drained off huge amounts of cash that has been instrumental in stalled development of the game people really wanted . . .

#23 GARION26

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 06:01 PM

I had similar thoughts to the OP in this thread rather then rehashing them I will just point to them https://mwomercs.com...es/page__st__40

#24 Nomad5926

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Posted 14 February 2021 - 08:18 AM

View PostFainting Goat, on 28 December 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:

It's a moot point now that they're abandoning Solaris, but they could've reduced the wait times by combining queues, and by randomizing the map selection instead of having a map ban. Oh well, live & learn.


Is this true? Because this would make me so happy. I'm glad they are moving resources back to the actual game, not this... side project. I will say the reason for the different Tiers is because each tier has comparable mechs allowed in it. Some mech do much better in Solar than others. So instead of giving people impossible mech matchups they split it into tiers. (Which was a good move IMO).

However, the low player base and high c-bill cost is really what kept out players. Because honestly within my first 10 matches I was put against the #1, #5 players for Solaris. Needless to say, I didn't win.

#25 LordNothing

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Posted 16 February 2021 - 05:58 AM

i think solaris needs a 4v4 mode, and a match maker for non dual modes so that pugs can team up without too much fuss.

#26 Fae Puka

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Posted 16 February 2021 - 07:25 AM

View PostNomad5926, on 14 February 2021 - 08:18 AM, said:


Is this true? Because this would make me so happy. I'm glad they are moving resources back to the actual game, not this... side project. I will say the reason for the different Tiers is because each tier has comparable mechs allowed in it. Some mech do much better in Solar than others. So instead of giving people impossible mech matchups they split it into tiers. (Which was a good move IMO).

However, the low player base and high c-bill cost is really what kept out players. Because honestly within my first 10 matches I was put against the #1, #5 players for Solaris. Needless to say, I didn't win.


Yep, go back through the recent analysis by PGI of the game modes and you will see that they acknowledged S7 was a poor idea and is dead in the water.

View PostLordNothing, on 16 February 2021 - 05:58 AM, said:

i think solaris needs a 4v4 mode, and a match maker for non dual modes so that pugs can team up without too much fuss.


We already have this and is far more likely to interest players - it's called Scouting in CW.

#27 MT Slayer

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Posted 16 February 2021 - 09:29 AM

Divisions should be handled by weight class to start with no lights against assaults' ever

#28 LordNothing

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Posted 16 February 2021 - 08:55 PM

View PostMummyPig, on 16 February 2021 - 07:25 AM, said:

We already have this and is far more likely to interest players - it's called Scouting in CW.


except that nobody in fp wants to play scouting, if there is anyone in fp and if scouting is an active mode. getting to play scouting is like trying to breed pandas, so it may as well not exist.

i think if you take out the smoke diving beacon chase aspects, the mode would be better suited to solaris. and the fp people would be happy its off the mode list. it also solves the 'solaris is boring' problem.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2021 - 09:08 PM.


#29 LordNothing

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Posted 16 February 2021 - 09:06 PM

View PostMT Slayer, on 16 February 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Divisions should be handled by weight class to start with no lights against assaults' ever


i think a four division solaris would be better. possibly a 5th unlimited division, though i could live without it.

#30 Mochyn Pupur

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Posted 17 February 2021 - 05:51 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 16 February 2021 - 08:55 PM, said:


except that nobody in fp wants to play scouting, if there is anyone in fp and if scouting is an active mode. getting to play scouting is like trying to breed pandas, so it may as well not exist.

i think if you take out the smoke diving beacon chase aspects, the mode would be better suited to solaris. and the fp people would be happy its off the mode list. it also solves the 'solaris is boring' problem.


I follow what you're saying, but S7 is dead, not just boring. Making Scouting more interesting would be easier and more cost effective. What you will probably have noticed, is that PGI in their wisdom, removed access to scouting because they most likely thought it was having an impact on the full drops - with the right incentive, scouting is viable if it were to be re-enabled and incentivised; certainly more attractive to the majority than S7

#31 Mindwyrm

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Posted 18 February 2021 - 01:29 PM

Would limiting the times that Solaris is open help any? Just as a free-floating idea, what if it was open for only 24 hours one day a week? Possibly have PGI devs stream the matches for an audience?

#32 Virtuebane

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Posted 20 February 2021 - 08:09 PM

Stock Mechs only... then I might actually be interested in it

#33 Wildstreak

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 09:00 AM

Summarized thoughts on certain issues based on what I see though I have not tried Solaris.

1 - Map banning is standard in a lot of eSports.
2 - Too many modes dilute Ranked play.
3 - Where's the 8 v 8?
4 - Wanting quick matches leads to mismatches that cause players to walk away.
5 - I still have not really looked at this Divisions thing, maybe later today I will just look it over to understand it since this is one of my days off playing MWO.
6 - Awarding Mech Bays and Mechs is the last thing needed.

#34 Wildstreak

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM

Looked it over earlier, messy alright.

- Divisions are clunky, no description of what they are you have to guess by going through things to see what Mech of yours is in what division.
- Some choices as to which Mech is where make no sense. Mechs of the same type in the middle of a Weight Class are spread between 2-4 Divisions.
- Mismatches between Mechs. I could understand something like Cicadas and other low end Mediums in the same group with high end Lights like Wolfhounds but Hunchbacks of both types and other Mediums in the same group with Assaults, what?
- Spectate tool is nice, reminds me of Paragon TV before that game shut down. Difference is Paragon let you watch any kind of match, Competitive, Casual, even 5 players vs 5 AI bots. With Solaris showing this tool is possible, makes you wonder why it does not exist in some form for QP and FW.
- Seems no Groups ever try S7, brings me back to why no 8 v 8.

Maps
Steiner Coliseum, What is with the Stone Cubes that serve no purpose? Those sheds? Either they blow up or why are they there too?
Boreal Reach, no need for illusion of open areas at one end. More Cubes now of Ice. Long Range possible but limited due to oval size of map.
Liao Jungle, more Cubes serving no purpose. Still have illusion you can leave the map but cannot, no forcefield this time just posts. Long Range possible but limited due to oval size of map.
Mech Factory looks to be the best map followed by Ishiyama Caves and you wonder why there is no large scale version similar to these for QP.

Maps seeming to favor certain Ranges
Long - Coliseum, Reach, Jungle
Medium - Coliseum, Reach, Jungle, Factory
Short - Factory, Caves
Problem is the Long range really is limited so may as well skip that and no LRMs. Such fighting really should be for team play anyway bring us back to where is the 8 v 8?

#35 Rosarius

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:30 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Looked it over earlier, messy alright.

- Divisions are clunky, no description of what they are you have to guess by going through things to see what Mech of yours is


This is a common theme for MWO's entire user interface, and PGI is nothing if not consistent!

View PostWildstreak, on 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Looked it over earlier, messy alright.

- Some choices as to which Mech is where make no sense. Mechs of the same type in the middle of a Weight Class are spread between 2-4 Divisions.
- Mismatches between Mechs. I could understand something like Cicadas and other low end Mediums in the same group with high end Lights like Wolfhounds but Hunchbacks of both types and other Mediums in the same group with Assaults, what?


Not all mech variants are created equal, you must factor for quirks and weapon mounts. An SHD-2H will easily go toe to toe against a CGR-3K, but a SHD-GD will struggle. For the most part, the balance of the mechs in any given division is not that bad.

View PostWildstreak, on 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

- Seems no Groups ever try S7, brings me back to why no 8 v 8.


Groups do happen, but keep in mind that Solaris is an unpopular game mode. It's sometimes hard enough to get a 1v1 going, let along wrangle 4 players at the same time to join two teams to duke it out. I'd suggest to fix this PGI could turn Solaris 2v2s into a soup queue arrangement like there is for QP, but again... unpopular game mode.

Why no 8v8? Well... cynical Rosarius likes to think that PGI never wanted 8v8 in the first place. But that's just an opinion, right? ;)

View PostWildstreak, on 23 February 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

cubes that serve no purpose


While they might not make sense from a "Gladiatorial Arena" point of view, there are games where these are invaluable pieces of cover. I for one like that they are there..

#36 BurntDevil

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:21 AM

Hell, just having a general chat room where people can call out they are down for a match would be better than nothing. I hate having to click through the divisions just to see if anyones queued, it should be alot easier to tell.

#37 Mochyn Pupur

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 07:26 AM

I would explain why nobody plays S7, but I have neither the time, nor the crayons to do so.

R.I.P. S7

#38 Lehv

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 04:29 PM

View PostBurntDevil, on 24 February 2021 - 07:21 AM, said:

Hell, just having a general chat room where people can call out they are down for a match would be better than nothing. I hate having to click through the divisions just to see if anyones queued, it should be alot easier to tell.


Yes we need some kind of general chat room on the main home screen. It would be great for helping finding groups, units, matches of all kinds etc.

#39 Lehv

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 04:35 PM

View PostMindwyrm, on 18 February 2021 - 01:29 PM, said:

Would limiting the times that Solaris is open help any? Just as a free-floating idea, what if it was open for only 24 hours one day a week? Possibly have PGI devs stream the matches for an audience?


Yes I think that would help. Making solaris a temporary tournament event could make it feel special and include items to acquire with the event. The main problem though I think is that it takes too long to get into a match and get started. We just need a big button to start the match and you are in the game immediately after a short load, without a dumb intro announcer taking up time. Smaller maps would also help to speed up the game. MWO was really designed as a team game so it is somewhat boring with only two people. To compensate for the boredom it needs to be FAST.

#40 Wildstreak

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 05:24 PM

View PostRosarius, on 24 February 2021 - 01:30 AM, said:

Not all mech variants are created equal, you must factor for quirks and weapon mounts. An SHD-2H will easily go toe to toe against a CGR-3K, but a SHD-GD will struggle. For the most part, the balance of the mechs in any given division is not that bad.



While they might not make sense from a "Gladiatorial Arena" point of view, there are games where these are invaluable pieces of cover. I for one like that they are there..

Sorry but if quirks are justifying these Division Mech choices, this only adds another piece of proof quirks are not done right.

I have spectated several S7 matches, the ones on Steiner Coliseum no one uses a cube, always one person goes high on a platform, the other moves straight toward him. Only other map I see matches happen on is Factory.

EDIT - I was half tempted to start a topic about what S7 should be but then remembered the advice of a smart game developer, no reason to put effort into something unless there is interest and seems PGI has none.

Edited by Wildstreak, 25 February 2021 - 05:26 PM.






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