85 replies to this topic

[SCRAPMETAL99]

not because of how the team as a whole performs

[Vlad Ward]

Bro. Your PSR is driven by how well you perform. It's how well you perform relative to everyone else. When you're technically 6th place, but your score is right there on the average, you're not going to move up much. If your score is way above the average, you're going to move up more.

If you completely ignored other players, then everyone in a match could move up. That's silly.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 January 2021 - 02:26 PM.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 12:33 PM, said:

https://imgur.com/Jz6HvKe

https://imgur.com/0gpLxrU

its stuff like this that gets me i mean i was top 3 dmg wise top 6 match score wise why did i break even

okthis match here even though we lost i was in the top 25% in terms of match score n dmg butbecause we lost i broke even ,even thoughicarried theteam as muchas icould

also to not my match scorewas well above the average matchscore as well

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

https://imgur.com/XRyOMhi
https://imgur.com/rBNbPj6

compared to that the win/loss should not affect personal piloting skill and that is the point o f the post im fairly sure imean why does your personal pilot skill rating get affectedbecause of theteam performance

ok this match my psr shouldve gone down butdue to the team winning it wentup

and in this match i was basicallyin the bottom 25% in terms ofmatch score and dmg butmy tier rating went up even though myteam mates carried my sorry arse by rights my psr should ve gone down
thisisthe point im making psr shouldnotbe reflective of team performance by by the actual players skill

Edited by SCRAPMETAL99, 12 January 2021 - 02:40 PM.

[K O Z A K]

ace pilots affect their drops enough on average so their wlr inevitably goes up, please point me to a single case of a great player who has below 1.0 wlr, I'll wait

nobody gets put on "bad teams" all the time, sometimes you'll get good teams, sometimes bad, only people who are bad themselves and have a negative effect on their teams average wlr are always blaming their team for their performance

[Vlad Ward]

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 02:30 PM, said:

okthis match here even though we lost i was in the top 25% in terms of match score n dmg butbecause we lost i broke even ,even thoughicarried theteam as muchas icould



and in this match i was basicallyin the bottom 25% in terms ofmatch score and dmg butmy tier rating went up even though myteam mates carried my sorry arse by rights my psr should ve gone down
thisisthe point im making psr shouldnotbe reflective of team performance by by the actual players skill

Bro I literally showed you the calculations. In the first match you technically got "6th place" but your score was decisively average for the match. In the second match, your team so thoroughly obliterated Red Team that you did well by comparison to them. Their PSR went down, so yours went up.

[Horseman]

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 01:02 PM, said:

and there we havethe problem

Yeah, and it is you.

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

thats the pointi did better than 3/4s ofthe players in that game yet istayed the same because of basically team performace

You're looking at one match. The win/loss factor only really comes into play over large number of matches and your net impact on them.

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 02:12 PM, said:

lmao what ever buddy your missing the point entirely the point is psr should not be reflected on how the team performs but how the pilot themselves perform as forwin/loss ratio thatshould have no bearingas to match making ,match making should be made up out of the tier lvl each player is at

A win is only scored by 20 points more than a loss, something you can compensate with less than fifty points' worth of damage.

Quote

so what your saying is you can be an ace pilot but because you keep getting put with bad pilots/mechs your pilot skill ratingshould be low even though you are out performing 75% of the pilots on the field how do yuopu come tot hat conclusion

No. As you were told, in that particular match you have ended up just short of qualifying for a PSR increase. That happens, and you need to get it in your head that nobody is entitled to rank up.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

Vlad Ward, on 12 January 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

Bro I literally showed you the calculations. In the first match you technically got "6th place" but your score was decisively average for the match. In the second match, your team so thoroughly obliterated Red Team that you did well by comparison to them. Their PSR went down, so yours went up.

actually no itwasntmymatch score was well above the average match score do the math yourself

average match score was 260.666666666 jmy match score was 331

Edited by SCRAPMETAL99, 12 January 2021 - 02:45 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 02:42 PM, said:

actually no itwasntmymatch score was well above the average match score do the math yourself

Vlad Ward, on 12 January 2021 - 12:50 PM, said:

So your PSR movement is 0(5) - 20 + 20 ( 0.6 ( 331 / 248 ) + ( 1 - 0.6 )( 331 / 260.25 ) ) = -1.31

The drop is small enough to be rounded to yellow bars in the UI.

Basically it's because you lost. You were right on the borderline. If you'd won with the same exact stats, you'd have seen a +3.69 PSR bump.

Edit to add: Also, despite your score technically being in the top 6, your score didn't significantly outpace the match average. The rest of the folks in the match did too well for you to stand out.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 January 2021 - 02:45 PM.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

Horseman, on 12 January 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

[redacted]

yes because ofthe win loss calculation and thats mypoint entirely win loss shouldnot affect pilot skil llvl

Vlad Ward, on 12 January 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

and your usingthe win loss calculations in thast equation that is nota true average match score andthat is mypoint win /loss itshouldnt affect your pilotskill rating

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 20 January 2021 - 02:01 AM.
please don't modify quotes without outlining properly

[Vlad Ward]

Meanwhile, the second match you posted shakes out to:

1(5) - 20 + 20 ( 0.6 ( 274 / 346.92 ) + 0.4 ( 274 / 271.75 ) ) = 2.4
You barely scraped out a positive PSR, and it's entirely due to how poorly the other team did. PSR is zero sum. When someone loses, someone gains.

Edit: In short, you're posting those two screenshots as if they're wildly different performances for you and you're surprised you're seeing a difference.

In reality, your PSR movement was pretty close to nil in both matches because your actual performance relative to other players wasn't spectacular in either case.

The W/L modifier is very small, but it was enough to make all the difference in both the matches you posted because your performance wasn't spectacularly good or bad in either one.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 January 2021 - 03:00 PM.

[Gagis]

win/loss IS the skill level. everything else is an inaccurate approximation of what might maybe add up to your long term performance.

your win/loss record IS your performance, the very same thing all sorts of scores and ratings try to roughly estimate, but can't ever be fully accurate at predicting it.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

you guys just dont get it at all team performance has absolutly no bearing on personal performance there is no i inteam buthey what should i expect fromtier 1 players who drop in groups you lot probally think your better than90% o f the player base but in reality your more than likely being carried by your group team mates yhi know because i too drop in groups as well as solo

ps ifireallywantedto tier 1 wouldbe a cake walk to reach

been there done that andidont have that good ofa win loss ratio
like isaid w/l has no bearing on personal performance but ithaseverything todowithteamperformance

Edited by SCRAPMETAL99, 12 January 2021 - 03:16 PM.

[K O Z A K]

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 03:12 PM, said:

you guys just dont get it at all team performance has absolutly no bearing on personal performance there is no i inteam buthey what should i expect fromtier 1 players who drop in groups you lot probally think your better than90% o f the player base but in reality your more than likely being carried by your group team mates yhi know because i too drop in groups as well as solo

you keep getting it backwards, your personal performance affects your team performance, and as such affects your wlr

fun fact: dropping in a strong group results in higher kdr/wlr, however a lower psr for strong players as they have to share the enemy team damage pool with their buddies. This is why wlr would be a better indicator of performance, it's unfortunate it's not weighted more

SCRAPMETAL99, on 12 January 2021 - 03:12 PM, said:

ps ifireallywantedto tier 1 wouldbe a cake walk to reach

been there done that andidont have that good ofa win loss ratio

and still nobody would be impressed if you don't care why are on here complaining your psr isn't going up enough

[Gagis]

Your team is a luck based element that's exactly the same for everyone.

Its like poker. Everyone has the same chance to draw good hands or bad hands, but your skill comes up in how much more you win than you lose over time.

Groups do throw a wrench in the mix trough coordination improving your chances of winning but competition with skilled teammates lowering your average score. But even with groups, what the match maker really needs to know is how likely you are to contribute to a win. If groups win more than the players would solo, that is a problem for those players, since they will henceforth be matched against more dangerous opponents even when solo. The skill rating is not a reward you need to grind, it is a tool for finding opponents and teammates of approppriate level to give two teams roughly evenish chances to win.

Note that most people don't play with friends so much they'd see a major deviation from normal performance, and even if they would get matched higher than they should, they'll have to face more dangerous opponents and lose rating later if they cannot perform at that level.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

ok heresmytheoryon how psr shouldgo
first match
my match score was 331 the average match score was 260 psr go ups even though the team lost
secondmatch
my match score was 274 theaverage match score was 271 psr should stay even or drop,even though the team won the match

the amount it gos up or down should be relative to the average match score giving a more resonable personal skill lvl notbased on how the team performed as a whole but how you worked with the team

Edited by SCRAPMETAL99, 12 January 2021 - 03:39 PM.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

and no im not complaining my psr is not going up i complaining as the whole system is about how the team performs and not based on personal performance hell if i play like crap then hey yh my psr should drop as itshould and not be affected by how the team performed as a whole you canonlycarrythe teamsofar same as the teamcanonlycarryyou sofar

Edited by SCRAPMETAL99, 12 January 2021 - 03:41 PM.

[K O Z A K]

amazing, even in the current psr system, which almost entirely bases psr movement on how much damage you pump out regardless of whether it results in winning, which is inferior to a wlr based system for matchmaking, you complain about the tiny tiny adjustor for wlr, one so small it's essentially equivalent to a single good alpha on an enemy mech

[Vlad Ward]

Omg. It's based on relative personal performance.

If it was based on absolute performance then you'd end up with comically stupid situations like having the entire game population in Tier 1

Edit: Which, by the way, used to be a real issue. The old PSR system trended up so overall way too many people were ranked higher than they should be.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 January 2021 - 03:55 PM.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

Hazeclaw, on 12 January 2021 - 03:53 PM, said:

amazing, even in the current psr system, which almost entirely bases psr movement on how much damage you pump out regardless of whether it results in winning, which is inferior to a wlr based system for matchmaking, you complain about the tiny tiny adjustor for wlr, one so small it's essentially equivalent to a single good alpha on an enemy mech

ifits so tiny then why the bigissue then

Vlad Ward, on 12 January 2021 - 03:54 PM, said:

Omg. It's based on relative personal performance.

If it was based on absolute performance then you'd end up with comically stupid situations like having the entire game population in Tier 1

Edit: Which, by the way, used to be a real issue. The old PSR system trended up so overall way too many people were ranked higher than they should be.

no it wouldnt as players wouldnt perform as well against skilled players therefore dropping psr anddroppingtier lvls the wayitis atmyoucanbe an average player butplay ina skilled groupandstillgainpsr

[K O Z A K]

itsbecomingveryhardtounderstandwhatyouresaying