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In Order To Maintain A Good T3 Population, Shouldn't Most Games Be T3-T5?


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#1 Elizander

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Posted 09 January 2021 - 11:49 PM

This isn't about "Muh imaginary internet game ranking is important." It's just a discussion on how to maintain players in T3.

Based on assumption that T1 and T2 players will have better match scores than T3 players and that PSR is relative to performance of other players in a match, shouldn't most matches be T3-T5 in order to maintain a somewhat decent T3 population?

In any match where there are minimal T3 and below players with a lot of T1 or T2, then it's safe to assume that the lesser skilled/experienced player will be at the bottom of the match score ranking and pushed down in rank. Some system maintenance and balance in matches should be taken into account to maintain more T3 players.

If there are say only 4-6 (just pulling numbers out of my ***) T1 and T2 players in a match and the rest are T3, then it shouldn't be so bad as the spread allows for more T3 players to gain or break even in PSR. If the majority of the players are T1 and T2, the T3 player is relegated to losing PSR.

Without major overhauls to the current system, the only way I can think of is to break down each tier into segments and introduce some bias to matchmaking based on how much or how little the bar is filled.

Let's say you generally want to keep a casual player's bar at 25% to 75% of T3. This means the MM has to recognize players as T3 (0%-24%), T3 (25%-49%), T3 (50%-74%) and T3 (75%-99%). Let's designate them as T3.1, T3.2, T3.3 and T3.4.

To keep players in T3, the MM should generally place T3.1 players into T3-T5 matches for the majority of their games to allow them a better chance of rising in PSR. Let's pick an imaginary number where T3.1 players will be placed in T3-T5 matches 85% of the time so they have a chance to gain PSR.

T3.2 players are a bit safer so maybe they can be placed in T1-T3 matches 30% of the time. T3.3 players are in a safe zone so we can go with them being in T1-T3 matches 50% of the time.

T3.4 players are probably a little better than average and can be matched in T1-T3 matches 75% of the time. If they can't cut it, no problem, the bias in match making if they drop to T3.3 or T3.2 will kick in and keep them in the bracket.

Given that new players start in T5, there should be more than enough (ideally?) T3-T5 matches to keep going and T1 and T2 players get to have the "better" T3 players more often so they have to carry less bads.

This isn't a fully detailed system, but it's a generally idea why other games break down tiers into smaller sections like Gold, Super Gold and Ultra Gold. They're all Gold, but Ultra Gold is better than Gold and is matched to higher ranks more often.

The same can be applied to T4/T5 where they are mostly matched with bottom tier T3 players who have to at least prove that they are better than T4/T5 players to maintain their rank and allow better T4/T5 players to rise up to T3 if they are deserving.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. All comments about release valves, T1-T5 matches all day, shut up low tier scrub and PGI sucks may now be posted in response. Posted Image

Edited by Elizander, 09 January 2021 - 11:51 PM.


#2 martian

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 02:25 AM

View PostElizander, on 09 January 2021 - 11:49 PM, said:

...
Anyway, those are just my thoughts. All comments about release valves, T1-T5 matches all day, shut up low tier scrub and PGI sucks may now be posted in response.


Paul Inouye promised the MWO players the open discussion regarding the PSR in July 2019.

The fact that he has ignored this forum ever since should serve as the clear indicator how much PGI cares about your suggestions or opinions.

#3 Vlad Ward

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 09:47 AM

Tiers are just buckets used to make things simpler for players to understand. PSR is a number between 0 and 5000. The MM is going to be trying to match teams based on that number. Just because someone with 100 PSR and someone with 900 PSR are both Tier 5 doesn't mean they're considered equal by the system.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 10 January 2021 - 09:47 AM.


#4 Bigbacon

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 08:33 AM

View PostVlad Ward, on 10 January 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

Tiers are just buckets used to make things simpler for players to understand. PSR is a number between 0 and 5000. The MM is going to be trying to match teams based on that number. Just because someone with 100 PSR and someone with 900 PSR are both Tier 5 doesn't mean they're considered equal by the system.


i feel the MM doesn't really care and just lumps you in to whatever it wants.

#5 Vlad Ward

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 08:47 AM

View PostBigbacon, on 11 January 2021 - 08:33 AM, said:


i feel the MM doesn't really care and just lumps you in to whatever it wants.


My PSR was reset by the December patch. As such, I've played in 4 tiers in the last 4 weeks. PSR definitely makes a difference.

#6 Wolfos31

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Posted 11 January 2021 - 09:08 AM

I've definitely noticed a difference in matches, match quality, and player quality moving from T3 to T2. In T3 matches I felt pretty invincible and could usually walk away with at least 1 kill or KMMD if not multiple. Now in T2 matches I'm challenged a lot more and I'm seeing less stomps and a lot more close games. 2 games last night were 12 to 11 games which I love to see because even if I'm on the losing team I feel I had a good match.

I don't think this really adds to the discussion beyond saying that IMO the MM is better after the tweaks. Now ideally I shouldn't reach T1 because I'm not a good enough player to belong there. We'll see if the MM manages that.

#7 crazytimes

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 12:43 AM

There aren't enough people for any meaningful kind of granularity in the MM. Wait until everyone is back at work over the next couple of weeks and matches go back to either 5-3 or 3-1.

#8 PocketYoda

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 03:34 AM

A good start is not having Cadets and tier 5s fighting tier 1s and 2s... Maybe not even tier 3s but i'm not sure the population can stomach it, so not Tier 1s and 2s.

View PostVlad Ward, on 11 January 2021 - 08:47 AM, said:


My PSR was reset by the December patch. As such, I've played in 4 tiers in the last 4 weeks. PSR definitely makes a difference.


I'm not seeing a huge change i've fought from Tier 3 to 5 and have seen only a small difference in matches.. I spent a tiny time in tier 2 two years ago and it was horrific.

Edited by Samial, 12 January 2021 - 03:37 AM.


#9 Elizander

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 04:12 AM

View PostSamial, on 12 January 2021 - 03:34 AM, said:

A good start is not having Cadets and tier 5s fighting tier 1s and 2s... Maybe not even tier 3s but i'm not sure the population can stomach it, so not Tier 1s and 2s.



I'm not seeing a huge change i've fought from Tier 3 to 5 and have seen only a small difference in matches.. I spent a tiny time in tier 2 two years ago and it was horrific.


I just came from a game where I 1v4'd 2 assaults and 2 heavy mechs. It's not because I was great, but they really didn't make a lot of good decisions. It wasn't even about their aim. XL Atlas, not checking for UAVs allowing me to blow up the first assault that rounded the corner, then the 2 heavies ran off behind a hill after I killed their 2nd assault allowing me to cool down and finish them off. My Scorch is only good for 3 alphas. If they came after me after I killed the Atlas I would've been dead.

That's just me being the scrub that I am coming out of it with 4 kills and 3 solo kills and I drop down to T4 almost daily from T3. Anyone that's consistently in T3 is probably better and thinking new players running into those is quite bad.

I agree that Cadets should be kept in T4-T5 games because a semi-decent T3 player can probably 1v5 them. I'd go further and make the MM try to keep them in T5 only games whenever possible for their first 25 games. Posted Image

As for the difference in T4 and T3, the game throws me into games with more unit tags/groups when I am T3 during US/EU times. In SEA times it makes little to no difference.

Edited by Elizander, 12 January 2021 - 04:17 AM.






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