47 replies to this topic

[MadDach5und]

Trying to fight back up Pilot Tiers into some sort of relevance is getting incredibly frustrating. Quick play rounds in off-peak times is generally awkward and uncoordinated, and yet - Match Score swings wildly depending on a winning team and NOT for generally the same performance.

Green Pilot (PSR) arrows get granted to a team winner for minimal damage / kills / points but yet need three or even five times as much points to accomplish the same thing on a losing team. I realize the motivation is to win as a team and keep the team experience key to advancing - but geez, I don't think this is what is happening.

I believe the Match score needs some re-working so it is not so heavily bound exclusively to damage and team score. Most Quick Plays are saturated with big heavy mechs and passive players who refuse to engage directly until forced into it. It's pretty obvious players are playing the slow game to 'whittle' as many long range damage points as they can off opposing players with hopes of building that score. Any alternate map forms to the basic Team Deathmatch mode are pretty much ignored for this same reason.

It's not a broken scoring system -- it just needs some tweaking. Base caps, base destruction, scouting - they all need more incentives to get people to run lighter and more strategic. Monotony is the death knell of games like this.

[K O Z A K]

You see, it's just that a lot of people that play this game disagree with you. A lot of players think you should be rewarded for damaging and killing other player run mechs, not for standing in squares, destroying buildings and such.

If you're more into that sort of gameplay it's ok, there is a much newer game that rewards destroying buildings: MW5. The PvP that is MWO should rate fighting other players more than objectives.

[Gagis]

Theres 100 threads about this already.

Capturing objectives does not contribute to winning much, because if the enemy is still alive, they can stop you.

Edited by Gagis, 15 January 2021 - 11:05 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Hazeclaw, on 15 January 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

A lot of players think you should be rewarded for damaging and killing other player run mechs, not for standing in squares, destroying buildings and such.

And that's perfectly fine, it's also perfectly fine to play the objective. What is a problem is how heavily weighted killing opponents is compared to playing the objective.

A simple way to fix this is to reduce the value of killing opponents so that is less than that of the objectives. If a team secures all kills the remaining value from the objectives is divided between all players on that team.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 15 January 2021 - 11:48 AM.

[Wolfos31]

The trouble with Objective play is that the way the game is set up right now it doesn't get you anything besides a win and in most people's opinion isn't that fun. You don't get a lot of CBills for an objective win, sometimes people don't even get to fire a weapon.

Objective play might work better if there were respawns. But because there aren't the surest path to victory in most cases is just to annihilate the enemy mechs. Enemy can't cap if they're dead.

[K O Z A K]

VonBruinwald, on 15 January 2021 - 11:48 AM, said:

And that's perfectly fine, it's also perfectly fine to play the objective. What is a problem is how heavily weighted killing opponents is compared to playing the objective.

A simple way to fix this is to reduce the value of killing opponents so that is less than that of the objectives. If a team secures all kills the remaining value from the objectives is divided between all players on that team.

I just don't see the appeal of objective play in MWO when MW5 is available. You come to a PvP game, and then you essentially want to not fight the enemy players. If you just want to outrace other players to an objective play a car racing game. If you want to be a battletech god and crush cities go wreck things in MW5. MWO is for fighting other real players in mechs, as it should be.

[VonBruinwald]

Hazeclaw, on 15 January 2021 - 12:17 PM, said:

I just don't see the appeal of objective play in MWO when MW5 is available. You come to a PvP game, and then you essentially want to not fight the enemy players. If you just want to outrace other players to an objective play a car racing game. If you want to be a battletech god and crush cities go wreck things in MW5. MWO is for fighting other real players in mechs, as it should be.

Think of it more like chess.

Yes, taking all your opponents pieces makes it easier but you can get just as much satisfaction getting mate while your opponents queen is still on the board.

[MadDach5und]

Wolfos31, on 15 January 2021 - 12:04 PM, said:

The trouble with Objective play is that the way the game is set up right now it doesn't get you anything besides a win and in most people's opinion isn't that fun.

I fully agree that objective play "doesn't get you anything besides a win" -- but that's mostly the result of a lopsided scoring system, not necessarily the players, game structure or mech development.

If people just want to destroy each other -- there are hundreds of demolition derby type games out there. Team Deathmatch has pretty much been done to death - literally.

The most wildly successful games out there have clever objectives BESIDES killing or destruction. From way back in the Pac-Man generation to the recent success of "Among Us" -- there are hundreds of games out there that don't need the most kills to win.

[Wolfos31]

MadDach5und, on 15 January 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

I fully agree that objective play "doesn't get you anything besides a win" -- but that's mostly the result of a lopsided scoring system, not necessarily the players, game structure or mech development.

If people just want to destroy each other -- there are hundreds of demolition derby type games out there. Team Deathmatch has pretty much been done to death - literally.

The most wildly successful games out there have clever objectives BESIDES killing or destruction. From way back in the Pac-Man generation to the recent success of "Among Us" -- there are hundreds of games out there that don't need the most kills to win.

Rarely you'll see a light or two on Conquest able to pull out a win against the 6 remaining assault & heavies which wiped their team. It's an exhilarating feeling, but I sort of feel that's the peak of MWO objective play.

This far into MWO's life I think it's unrealistic to expect a big change on this, and I think a lot of the community wouldn't welcome it. I wouldn't, I think objective play is much better done in other games, and I'd argue in single player games especially. In MWO I derive fun from outsmarting human opponents and exploiting weaknesses.

[Gagis]

Objectives are an excellent way to break stalemates, but if you reward people for them too hard, you will start rewarding players for lost matches. Alive enemies are a lot better at playing the objective than dead teammates are.

Edited by Gagis, 15 January 2021 - 01:56 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Gagis, on 15 January 2021 - 01:56 PM, said:

Objectives are an excellent way to break stalemates, but if you reward people for them too hard, you will start rewarding players for lost matches. Alive enemies are a lot better at playing the objective than dead teammates are.

We already have that problem with kills; people are sacrificing their team-mates, the objective and even wins in order to pad their personal stats.

[Mal Bolge]

Hazeclaw, on 15 January 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

You see, it's just that a lot of people that play this game disagree with you. A lot of players think you should be rewarded for damaging and killing other player run mechs, not for standing in squares, destroying buildings and such.

Again PSR is not a reward. It's only a value used to put you in matches with players that think and act alike. If you like to play objectives rather than killing mechs, the PSR are trying to adjust your value so that you get to play with others of the same ilk. It's working as intended. The only problem here is players viewing it as some kind of reward or punishment after a match. PGI just made a monumental mistake in making tier and PSR loss/gain visible to players.

[Elizander]

Just turn off PSR tier display in the settings. Life's more fun that way. You'll naturally go up later when you get used to the chaotic swings of the crowds changing with time.

If you really just want to go up in PSR, play a 4x AMS Corsair or a 3x AMS kitfox and soak up the missile bonuses. I'm not kidding.

Edited by Elizander, 15 January 2021 - 02:28 PM.

[Lousyten]

Killers can cap while cappers usually can't kill.
Nothing wrong with PSR system favoring killers.
Cappers tend to think they won the match for their team.
In most cases, that is not true; it was the lack of killers on the losing side.

[dario03]

Buffing objective scoring/cbills doesn't help with the lack of fun in objective rushing. The objective modes need some changes to the modes to fix that. Conquest is fine (in qp, in fp it needs a higher points goal) because it encourages the team to move about the map and can have a bit of a back and forth because it doesn't just end if one team focuses objective early. But domination is just basically all move to one spot. Assault is just usually ignored and if both teams were playing objective you would just base rush or base camp. Incursion is similar to assault but theres a couple of things in the middle, but its just run back and forth and instead of trying to kill defenders if you rush, you try to kill the base. In fp siege if objective rushing is just run past the enemy and shoot buildings.

I'm all for an update to match scoring but it shouldn't be buffing objective scoring until the modes are changed.

[Bud Crue]

MadDach5und, on 15 January 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Green Pilot (PSR) arrows get granted to a team winner for minimal damage / kills / points but yet need three or even five times as much points to accomplish the same thing on a losing team.

I don't know about anyone else, but I swear I get just as many up arrows on losses as I do on wins.

[PocketYoda]

Hazeclaw, on 15 January 2021 - 11:03 AM, said:

You see, it's just that a lot of people that play this game disagree with you. A lot of players think you should be rewarded for damaging and killing other player run mechs, not for standing in squares, destroying buildings and such.

If you're more into that sort of gameplay it's ok, there is a much newer game that rewards destroying buildings: MW5. The PvP that is MWO should rate fighting other players more than objectives.

I disagree a Battletech game is not CoD and should never be considered that type of game, i feel the issue is the populations mindset not the game.. although the game rewards those types of players, which is bad..

I'm not saying MWO souldn't have mech on mech combat but Battletech was never ever just about w/l or kills and damage.. Some where along the line PGI forgot this or is too busy catering to CoD fanbois thinking all PVP games should be like CoD..

Bud Crue, on 15 January 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I swear I get just as many up arrows on losses as I do on wins.

Depends on how you play.. i see more and more players shooting mech after mech getting as much damage as they can and killing nothing, then dying but the game rewards them for effectively doing nothing..

Padding damage is a cancer here imo..

Edited by Samial, 15 January 2021 - 04:47 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Mal Nilsum, on 15 January 2021 - 02:10 PM, said:

Again PSR is not a reward. It's only a value used to put you in matches with players that think and act alike. If you like to play objectives rather than killing mechs, the PSR are trying to adjust your value so that you get to play with others of the same ilk. It's working as intended. The only problem here is players viewing it as some kind of reward or punishment after a match. PGI just made a monumental mistake in making tier and PSR loss/gain visible to players.

he was talking about adjusting match score to value objectives more and damage/kills less

[K O Z A K]

Samial, on 15 January 2021 - 04:44 PM, said:

I disagree a Battletech game is not CoD and should never be considered that type of game, i feel the issue is the populations mindset not the game.. although the game rewards those types of players, which is bad..

I'm not saying MWO souldn't have mech on mech combat but Battletech was never ever just about w/l or kills and damage.. Some where along the line PGI forgot this or is too busy catering to CoD fanbois thinking all PVP games should be like CoD..



Depends on how you play.. i see more and more players shooting mech after mech getting as much damage as they can and killing nothing, then dying but the game rewards them for effectively doing nothing..

Padding damage is a cancer here imo..

Call it CoD with mechs if that makes it easier for you, it's hardly ever been a battletech game with no other types of vehicles, etc. I'm sorry if it's not what you want, but realistically mwo was always essentially a future walking tank on walking tank combat simulator.

Shooting mech after mech isn't as good as concentrating on killing 1 mech first, but it's still way more useful than the guy running around the edge of the map at 100% capping/destroying incursion buildings/etc. You're still fighting the enemy and playing PvP instead of PvE

I keep having to repeat this, but here it is again: if you want to play an objective driven battletech game, play MW5

[VonBruinwald]

Hazeclaw, on 15 January 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:

I keep having to repeat this, but here it is again: if you want to play an objective driven battletech game, play MW5

And if you want to play pure PvP with no other objective but to kill the enemy we have a queue for that, well, 7 to be precise.