Jump to content

- - - - -

Front Hit Vs Flank Damage

Help Me Guide Question

14 replies to this topic

#1 Miliru

    Member

  • Pip
  • Survivor
  • 12 posts

Posted 25 January 2021 - 03:15 PM

Can anyone explain the mechanics of attacking from the side to me?

In the testing ground I went to Canyon Network. I shot the Cataphract 1x with rotary AC/2.


When I was shooting from the flank I first stripped off with my lasers the arm, and left torso. Then I proceeded to engage with the rotary AC/2 from the left side.

Flank

799 shots to kill the center torso
787 shots to kill the center torso
586 shots to kill the center torso

When I was shooting at the center I was in the front of the mech and hitting the center torso only.

Front

176 shots to kill the center torso.
144 shots to kill the center torso.

I am close enough that I am only doing damage to the single component that I am aiming at.

Can anyone explain to me why it would take so much more shots to kill the center torso from the side than it does from the front, even though I'm not hitting any other mech components? Are the dead left arm and left torso actually still blocking shots?

#2 Tarl Cabot

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Tai-sho
  • Tai-sho
  • 7,642 posts
  • LocationImperial City, Luthien - Draconis Combine

Posted 25 January 2021 - 07:28 PM

That is what we call damage transfer, and as the damage is transferred, it is reduced. If you are hitting the nub of the arm, that damage is transferred by a percentage to the ST then once that ST, it is reduced even more into the CT.. And would need to look at the base stats for the cataphract to see if it had ammo and where it is stored, since any crits on ammo has to potential for it to crit into an ammo explosion.

Below the post is dated from 2014.

View PostRuss Bullock, on 22 December 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Damage transfer several months ago was lowered increase TTK - it was reduced to 40% from one component and down to 20% for a second component.

It used to be 50 and 25.

If memory serves - it should still be 40 and 20.


This would also apply, to say, firing at a leg that had been destroyed, then the damage is reduced by 40% going into the Side Torso then another 20% (for total 60% reduction) into the CT.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 25 January 2021 - 07:40 PM.


#3 Cichol Balor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The God
  • The God
  • 354 posts

Posted 26 January 2021 - 05:46 AM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 25 January 2021 - 07:28 PM, said:

That is what we call damage transfer, and as the damage is transferred, it is reduced. If you are hitting the nub of the arm, that damage is transferred by a percentage to the ST then once that ST, it is reduced even more into the CT.. And would need to look at the base stats for the cataphract to see if it had ammo and where it is stored, since any crits on ammo has to potential for it to crit into an ammo explosion.

Below the post is dated from 2014.



This would also apply, to say, firing at a leg that had been destroyed, then the damage is reduced by 40% going into the Side Torso then another 20% (for total 60% reduction) into the CT.


I thought legs went into CT not ST. But I could be mistaken

#4 ImperialKnight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,733 posts

Posted 26 January 2021 - 07:57 AM

good old damage transfer mechanic that is not mentioned anywhere or taught to new players. miss the days how we used to zombie the Centurion using it

#5 Miliru

    Member

  • Pip
  • Survivor
  • 12 posts

Posted 26 January 2021 - 09:48 AM

That just sounds really really odd. So if there is no arm and upper torso on the mech, it is still mitigating damage that should otherwise be hitting the central torso?

#6 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 26 January 2021 - 04:15 PM

View PostMiliru, on 26 January 2021 - 09:48 AM, said:

That just sounds really really odd. So if there is no arm and upper torso on the mech, it is still mitigating damage that should otherwise be hitting the central torso?


Yes. Even if I lose my LT, twisting will still reduce damage to my CT. Just think of it as the scrap metal left over being in the way.

Edited by Elizander, 26 January 2021 - 04:15 PM.


#7 Miliru

    Member

  • Pip
  • Survivor
  • 12 posts

Posted 26 January 2021 - 07:45 PM

View PostElizander, on 26 January 2021 - 04:15 PM, said:


Yes. Even if I lose my LT, twisting will still reduce damage to my CT. Just think of it as the scrap metal left over being in the way.


Really odd, but I guess that is the way it goes.

#8 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 28 January 2021 - 03:40 PM

Think of it as a tactical benefit.

Also, most of the arms blow off of mechs so you usually have a better shot at the ST once they are, but if you hit the remaining part of the hitbox that counts as the arm, it's absorbing damage.

And now that you have this information, use to your advantage! Torso twist away from incoming damage to blunt the blows! Just beware the engine destruction rules too!

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 28 January 2021 - 03:43 PM.


#9 ImperialKnight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,733 posts

Posted 13 February 2021 - 02:51 AM

View PostMiliru, on 26 January 2021 - 07:45 PM, said:

Really odd, but I guess that is the way it goes.


how is it odd? if you destroy something IRL, it doesn't just magically disappear. The remnants are going to be there

#10 Miliru

    Member

  • Pip
  • Survivor
  • 12 posts

Posted 14 February 2021 - 08:04 AM

View PostImperialKnight, on 13 February 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:


how is it odd? if you destroy something IRL, it doesn't just magically disappear. The remnants are going to be there
So the remnants are going to provide such a massive amount of damage reduction? Literally the definition of destroy in this case means to put an end to something's existence. It's not wrecked, if you look at the graphics in game the arm, non-center torso are blown off the mech.

#11 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 14 February 2021 - 01:17 PM

View PostMiliru, on 14 February 2021 - 08:04 AM, said:

So the remnants are going to provide such a massive amount of damage reduction? Literally the definition of destroy in this case means to put an end to something's existence. It's not wrecked, if you look at the graphics in game the arm, non-center torso are blown off the mech.

Well, the graphics in this game don't really show side torso destruction at all, just arms blow off. The real answer is this mechanic is a modification of the tabletop rules of Battletech. Any extra damage that is allocated to a component transfers to the adjacent component. But, in MWO, this 1:1 damage is reduced by 60% per transfer for balance reasons. The hitboxes for side torsos and legs don't disappear when those components are destroyed in this game.

#12 ImperialKnight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,733 posts

Posted 19 February 2021 - 02:00 AM

View PostMiliru, on 14 February 2021 - 08:04 AM, said:

So the remnants are going to provide such a massive amount of damage reduction? Literally the definition of destroy in this case means to put an end to something's existence. It's not wrecked, if you look at the graphics in game the arm, non-center torso are blown off the mech.


If I put a Javelin through a Leopard tank and "destroy" it, does the carcass magically disappear? If I stand behind said carcass, and have some start shooting me from the opposite, do the rounds magically pass through the remains of the destroyed tank?

The mechanic isn't even remotely unrealistic, and the mechanic is what it is. You asked for an explanation of the damage transfer mechanic, and it was explained to you. If you're unhappy about it, you're free to uninstall the game.

#13 Pyrometheus

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 35 posts

Posted 06 March 2021 - 11:39 AM

Not exactly related to this topic but, I have a question:

I'm a returning player (some 5 years or so away) and have been doing my homework on suggested builds, and watching streamer videos about mechs and builds and, I notice that a LOT of, if not all of, those builds have single digit back armor which just blows my mind.

How the hell are these builds surviving with next to no armor on the back sides?

#14 Gagis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,731 posts

Posted 06 March 2021 - 11:45 AM

View PostPyrometheus, on 06 March 2021 - 11:39 AM, said:

How the hell are these builds surviving with next to no armor on the back sides?

Not turning your back to the enemy. When moving with the team this is really easy to do. When surprised by a faster mech than you, you often have a chance to back up your back to a wall.

Having more armour in the frong helps you every time. Back armour helps only sometimes.

Edited by Gagis, 06 March 2021 - 11:46 AM.


#15 Pyrometheus

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 35 posts

Posted 06 March 2021 - 02:22 PM

View PostGagis, on 06 March 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

Not turning your back to the enemy. When moving with the team this is really easy to do. When surprised by a faster mech than you, you often have a chance to back up your back to a wall.

Having more armour in the frong helps you every time. Back armour helps only sometimes.


That's about the answer I was expecting but, I really don't think it's as simple as that, and it doesn't track with what I see in game. Lately every team has at least 4 or 5 super fast lights (typically with ECM) whose sole job is to get behind players and shoot them in the back. Moving with the team or not at some point, someone is going to have a shot at your back.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users