69 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 12:14 PM, said:

But, there's a HUGE difference between four T1 comp group guys running around in Vulcans, harvesting derps and four T5 guys running around in LRM assaults. In the first instance, the team with the premade has a distinct advantage while in the latter, the team WITHOUT the premade has one. See how that works? In one instance, it's a benefit to have them, in the other it's a liability.

Again you're comparing T1's to T5's as if it excuses the problem.

Which is going to do better? A 4-man running Vulcans or 4 randoms running Vulcans.
Which is going to do better? A 4-man running LRM Assaults or 4 randoms running LRM Assaults.

[Saved By The Bell]

Sorry for my noob opinion, good team can win in any mechs.

I lose many times, because I think, my team behind me and help me. No.

They think I ll help them. No... No communication between noobs.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 03 February 2021 - 12:40 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Saved By The Bell, on 03 February 2021 - 12:40 PM, said:

I lose many times, because I think, my team behind me and help me. No.

Think of it more like sides you are on rather than teams. At least if you're pugging.

[Wolfos31]

B L O O D W I T C H, on 03 February 2021 - 12:52 PM, said:

Think of it more like sides you are on rather than teams. At least if you're pugging.

Yep,

I don't trust my team mates at all. I drop call pretty regularly in a minimal way, but it's more of herding cats. If they're already moving in a good direction me calling weak targets helps. But if they're all spread out and each doing their own thing it's generally hopeless.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

Again you're comparing T1's to T5's as if it excuses the problem.

Which is going to do better? A 4-man running Vulcans or 4 randoms running Vulcans.
Which is going to do better? A 4-man running LRM Assaults or 4 randoms running LRM Assaults.

This problems doesn't go away at low or high skill levels

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 01:26 PM.

[martian]

Wolfos31, on 03 February 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yep,

I don't trust my team mates at all. I drop call pretty regularly in a minimal way, but it's more of herding cats. If they're already moving in a good direction me calling weak targets helps. But if they're all spread out and each doing their own thing it's generally hopeless.

The only thing that I expect from my team mates is them following and blocking my 'Mech for the entire game without helping me, crowned with their attempt to steal my kill in the last moment.

Usually I am not disappointed.

[Willard Phule]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

Again you're comparing T1's to T5's as if it excuses the problem.

Which is going to do better? A 4-man running Vulcans or 4 randoms running Vulcans.

The 4 man, assuming a couple of things regarding the premade. We'll assume that the 4 guys in question are experienced playing with each other in a group and that they're using some other voice comm than is provided by the game. Fair enough?

The opposite happens all the time, 4 solos running Vulcans without coordination and end up being in front, backing into their team as soon as they make contact. There's a difference between how coordinated groups work and uncoordinated ones do.

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

Which is going to do better? A 4-man running LRM Assaults or 4 randoms running LRM Assaults.

Again, assuming the 4-man is experienced and coordinated, it will have an advantage when compared to 4 random solos in the exact, same builds. I'm not sure how that's hard to comprehend. It's that whole "experience and coordination" thing.

Now, don't forget the other random dynamics you get with groups. A 4-man in Vulcans have shorted whatever team they're going on's maximum allowable tonnage by deciding to drop light. They're allowed way more than that when they put their group together. Does it matter? It can. We've all seen it.

[crazytimes]

VonBruinwald, on 03 February 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

Which is going to do better? A 4-man running LRM Assaults or 4 randoms running LRM Assaults.

I see what you did there.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Willard Phule, on 03 February 2021 - 02:03 PM, said:

The 4 man, assuming a couple of things regarding the premade. We'll assume that the 4 guys in question are experienced playing with each other in a group and that they're using some other voice comm than is provided by the game. Fair enough?

The opposite happens all the time, 4 solos running Vulcans without coordination and end up being in front, backing into their team as soon as they make contact. There's a difference between how coordinated groups work and uncoordinated ones do.



Again, assuming the 4-man is experienced and coordinated, it will have an advantage when compared to 4 random solos in the exact, same builds. I'm not sure how that's hard to comprehend. It's that whole "experience and coordination" thing.

Now, don't forget the other random dynamics you get with groups. A 4-man in Vulcans have shorted whatever team they're going on's maximum allowable tonnage by deciding to drop light. They're allowed way more than that when they put their group together. Does it matter? It can. We've all seen it.

Yea but a four man at rank four vs solo's at range four are going to have advantage AKA group PSR. We were already over this and the force multiplier and sum being great then individual parts

Edited by SirSmokes, 03 February 2021 - 02:35 PM.

[Willard Phule]

SirSmokes, on 03 February 2021 - 02:32 PM, said:

Yea but a four man at rank four vs solo's at range four are going to have advantage AKA group PSR. We were already over this and the force multiplier and sum being great then individual parts

Ah, and therein lies the problem. You're assuming that groups will be placed with solos of an approximate tier rating. To do that, the matchmaker would have to come up with some kind of "average" PSR rating for the members of the group, which it doesn't do.

What the matchmaker does is give priority to groups in matchmaking. They're front loaded in line. That's why you see so many T1 premades in virtually every level of play. And, it's also why you see some of those horrendous T5 premades dropping into a T1 match.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Willard Phule, on 04 February 2021 - 09:18 AM, said:

Ah, and therein lies the problem. You're assuming that groups will be placed with solos of an approximate tier rating. To do that, the matchmaker would have to come up with some kind of "average" PSR rating for the members of the group, which it doesn't do.

What the matchmaker does is give priority to groups in matchmaking. They're front loaded in line. That's why you see so many T1 premades in virtually every level of play. And, it's also why you see some of those horrendous T5 premades dropping into a T1 match.

No mixing groups and solo is just not going to work. This makes for wild inconsistent matches. If PGI wants to keep what player base they have left they need to make the matches more consistent. Also don't people in groups want to more challenge then stomping solo and bad low tier groups? There no way to get around team work OP and why military doesn't just have one guy with a gun

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 09:28 AM.

[Brauer]

Gagis, on 03 February 2021 - 12:00 PM, said:

the system overvalues both raw damage and AMS missiles destroyed by a bit, but 380 is still a very good match score.

I don't think there is good evidence for your claim re: damage unless you are arguing that match score overvalues everything other than wins and damage is among a few factors (kills for example) that are less overvalued than other match score of kickers.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Brauer, on 04 February 2021 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't think there is good evidence for your claim re: damage unless you are arguing that match score overvalues everything other than wins and damage is among a few factors (kills for example) that are less overvalued than other match score of kickers.

The thing about damage in Mechwarrior Online is you can kill a mech quickly or slow. You can do 200 damage and the things still kicken or say you get behind it and core it out in a few hits.

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 09:49 AM.

[Grus]

Same happened to be. From 1 to 5 like that. But damn its fun clubbing seals!

[The pessimistic optimist]

Grus, on 04 February 2021 - 10:21 AM, said:

Same happened to be. From 1 to 5 like that. But damn its fun clubbing seals!

So the matchmaker was rolling 20 all night? Did you have your friends help you out?

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 10:27 AM.

[Grus]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 10:27 AM, said:

So the matchmaker was rolling 20 all night? Did you have your friends help you out?

Solo drops, just cordenation with other players. Still have a few losses, but only had like 1-2 that had a red down arrow.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Grus, on 04 February 2021 - 10:30 AM, said:

Solo drops, just cordenation with other players. Still have a few losses, but only had like 1-2 that had a red down arrow.

[Anomalocaris]

SirSmokes, on 04 February 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:

Also don't people in groups want to more challenge then stomping solo and bad low tier groups?

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question....

Looks at old group queue....

Seriously though, good groups mostly want a challenge. But the lower half (2/3rds?) of groups don't want to face the good groups. Given the choice of facing quality competition and getting to play against solos, they'll take the latter every....single....time

[The pessimistic optimist]

Anomalocaris, on 04 February 2021 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'll assume that's a rhetorical question....

Looks at old group queue....

Seriously though, good groups mostly want a challenge. But the lower half (2/3rds?) of groups don't want to face the good groups. Given the choice of facing quality competition and getting to play against solos, they'll take the latter every....single....time

All I know is there were a lot comp guys on last night throwing matchmaker out of wack

Edited by SirSmokes, 04 February 2021 - 10:59 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Anomalocaris, on 03 February 2021 - 11:29 AM, said:

If someone were really sneaky, they'd figure out how many matches they had to tank to get past the initial seeding boost. And then figure out how often they needed to disco to offset their wins (or alternately how often to play a NARC raven and not fire a dmg dealing weapon).

Might be able to club seals for months then.....

You could, but I think you have to do exceptionally badly. For example I purchased an Annihilator for the first time last night, and I'm a *rubbish* 100 tonner pilot. I did not break 600 damage in that thing, usually did 300 and maybe 1 kill. And my bar is still maxed, because while I did horribly, I still didn't do horribly enough.