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State Of The Game And Video Games =/= Tabletops


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#1 MauttyKoray

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 02:07 PM

TL;DR
Plans for MWO and especially the faction play were big and grand (and what was implemented still has potential and was neat including the star map) but the focus desperately needs to be shifted towards core gameplay balance (base stats balancing for mechs/weapons without all the quirk/skill fluff) and daily gameplay loop to make MWO a viable F2P title for non-Battletech/Mechwarrior fans (more casual shooter players that like stompy mechs). Even with the inclusion of the dedicated mapping job, this game with poorly balanced gameplay mostly continues to float on the backs of diehard fans at this point.

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There is much more I could say on this topic but I've been easily distracted today and this already took far longer to type than I wanted with much more meandering about and having a hard time stay on topic from sentence to sentence. Apologies if it takes some effort to read.

With the upcoming release of MW5 finally to alternate platforms and the first DLC with it, I recently returned to check back up on MWO and the community as a whole.

Honestly, its in just as disappointingly terrible of a state as when I stopped playing. The same arguments, complaining, whining, uninvolved DEV team, ridiculously all over the place decisions and balancing, etc.

Bright spots I've seen have been the addition of Daeron as the community manager, which seeing as how long he and Matt spent being basically the unofficial community team I'm amazed it didn't happen sooner. As well as the hiring of the new team member specifically intended to work on the maps.

But this community is just as toxic, the games play just like they have, and far too many purists don't understand that making a video game adhere strictly to the source statistics and numbers is usually NOT fun. Especially when acts of random chance are involved for many core aspects of the table top game included. The closest thing that can make the least amount of deviation from the source is something such as a turn based strategy game with RPG elements.

So as sad as it is to say, MWO is not a game that is doing well, or growing. I'm surprised its somehow even still hanging on other than the fanatic devotees that have lined the company's pockets for all these years. I don't wish to see the game die, or the franchise after having waited to long since MW4 to finally have a new campaign based title again, but a few things need to happen for Battletech/Mechwarrior to survive and become more than just a niche/cult fandom.

1) The community needs to stop trying to think it knows how to balance a game. Input is great from people who are not dogmatically pushing what they think needs to be done and can be a great tool for DEVs (more on that later) when used properly. Inversely the purists need to stop pushing 1:1 translations from the tabletop being the correct choice for everything. Just no, that would make a TERRIBLE fps game and none of the Mechwarrior games we enjoy from Microsoft ever stuck to them adamantly which is why they were fun.

2. The DEVs need to figure out how to pull their heads out of their rears after all this time and finally set themselves a solid plan on what to do. Core parts of the game need to be looked over and ironed out first and foremost. Mechs having a fun scaling/survivability and weapons having their own roles to fill are key those first steps. Maps are important and rightly should be a priority as well but if your shooter isnt fun with good maps it won't matter. (and yes, this game IS a shooter first and foremost)

Understand that extra features such as the quirks, skill system, etc might be much more harmful to the base playability of the game right now than they are helping. Instead simply masking or bandaging those problems to a point where they may not easily be identifiable. Things like the disparity between the IS and Clan mechs has always been a thing and that solely the player's agreement to follow specific rules in tabletop are what allowed the game to stay somewhat balanced/fun. In this video game we don't have that so steps might need to happen that create a different play style for Clans instead of simply a direct power creep that only would be reduced by the inclusion of stronger IS weapons that made the older ones redundant and far less useful.

3) This game needs to be treated like the live service free to play game it is and have content that can be played by many varieties of people. While some may not enjoy something like a PVE mission mode, players of other shooter games eat that content up running coop with buddies that either may not want to play PVP or as breaks between those matches to enjoy them.

Dare I say it, having modes like team deathmatch with 'reinforcement waves' of either the same mech they brought or giving them the option of spawning in a mech out of a specific set (i.e. having a stable of 1 weight class each you can choose from with some matches restricted to only 2 or 3 of those) would be a much more friendly change to the quickplay modes for new players instead of possibly playing 10 minutes in a match with little happening only to get alpha struck once to core their mech.

With more players in the game you could even have things like Timeline modes where tech is limited to 3025 or 3050/60s (Clan Invasion or post Invasion more likely) which would further improve gameplay balancing ability and make the players who were fans of BT before hand even happier that they get to play those parsed down matches of specific tech levels.

Other, silly sounding features, should be explored. The bolt ons were already a community favorite and having them stay attached made them even better customization items that other people can actually see. But things such as social features, daily missions, Clan/Guild tasks (maybe weekly or every two weeks?) that give players little bonuses everywhere help retain the free to play crowd and give them extra things to do. Something like bonus XP, credits, small amounts (maybe 1-10 depending?) of MC or even specific decals for special weekend exclusive missions, having clans/guilds do longer things of taking out X amount of specific weight class mechs, do specific amounts of damage, points, etc that require effort and participation from active members to complete could reward a random (or fixed) common bolt on (so a fairly plain/less complex one) for the entire group of people to give more value to actually being part of it. Even something as different as splitting the skill system into a 'pilot level' and a mech proficiency would go a long way in creating a break point between the disparity of having a fully unskilled/skilled mech. Allowing a player who has been playing to retain a small-medium amount of that proficiency in piloting basics (slightly tighter turns, twisting, acceleration/braking, etc) reflecting learning over time for the pilot versus hard mech changes like cooling efficiency, sensor changes, durability improvements, etc from building skills in a mech proficiency side.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 04 April 2021 - 02:12 PM.


#2 Bud Crue

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 02:49 PM

With all due respect,your post is all over the place and in the end, I can't understand what is it you are actually proposeing or complaining about. E.g. You state PGI needs to get their head out of their rear, etc. while at the same time asserting that the community has no business offering up balance solutions. Um. So if PGI has their head up their rear, exactly where are game play solutions going to come from?

Bolt-ons are extremely popular with the community? Really?

As to your last couple of points, play more and you will find that PGI (or at least Matt) now provides many opportunities for free stuff, including so much MC that you can easily buy several hero mechs over the course of a year.

Finally, as to the point raised in the title. There is only a few people who regularly post that think TT values belong in this here FPS. All the rest of us recognize that as folly, and not even PGI (except occasionally for Chris and his LRM fetish) listen to these people.

Oh, and as to quirks. You're wrong. Quirks are essential and ought to be used more rather than less. This is a game where avatars have varied weapons heights, and numbers; tremendous variation in size and hit box idealization, as well as other characteristics (clan vs IS, Omni vs Battlemech, std,vs LFE vs XL engines etc.) that have a direct and significant impact on their in game viability and quirks are the ONLY thing that can be used to make some on the worse end of viability be viable. Quirks are even more important to those potential players that are not familiar to the IP that you think should be prioritized. Some shlub comes in and thinks "oh that Cataphract looks cool", without quirks, how do you think their NP experience is going to go (bad enough with quirks, frankly)? how about with a quirk-less Panther, Vindicator, Awesome, etc. We need significantly MORE quirks, not less, if we want noob players to have a better chance to learn the game and even come to enjoy it, regardless of their initial mech choices.

Edited by Bud Crue, 04 April 2021 - 02:49 PM.


#3 pattonesque

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 03:56 PM

Have you taken a look at the community-driven changes in the April patch yet?

#4 MyriadDigits

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 04:07 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 04 April 2021 - 03:56 PM, said:

Have you taken a look at the community-driven changes in the April patch yet?

I'm going to hazard a guess and say this dude is probably complaining about the lorenerds and the Cauldron all at once.

#5 PocketYoda

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 04:48 PM

Man you ask for a more closer version of Mechwarrior and the meta people go bananas.. That's fine keep making lights the size of mice, its only going to backfire on them anyway..

#6 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 05:34 PM

I have played many online games, and for the most part, MWO is probably near the top of my list of LEAST toxic player base.

There are very few online games out there with such a nice community... especially considering it has its own in-game voice chat built in.

I am honestly amazed, considering that, in most games with in-game voice communication, I am often verbally attacked almost daily.. where as in MWO, I have maybe been verbally attacked once or twice... in my whole MWO career.

#7 pattonesque

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 05:42 PM

View PostSamial, on 04 April 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Man you ask for a more closer version of Mechwarrior and the meta people go bananas.. That's fine keep making lights the size of mice, its only going to backfire on them anyway..


What’s your idea for making lights in this game viable if they’re significantly larger than they are

#8 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 06:25 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 04 April 2021 - 05:42 PM, said:


What’s your idea for making lights in this game viable if they’re significantly larger than they are


I do not recall any push to make lights significantly larger... but in the event that they do, I would imagine structure or armor quirks being one possible solution.

I was under the assumption that mechs over 30tons might possibly get smaller? Granted, I know I shouldn’t assume anything... we all know what happens when I assume...

I like to take things one step at a time, and currently, I think that first step is the community driven weapon balance patch. While I do not agree with everything proposed for the April patch, I am extremely hyped that PGI is paying attention to its player base. It is amazing that they finally have the pulse of the people now.

#9 MyriadDigits

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 06:45 PM

View PostAleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 04 April 2021 - 06:25 PM, said:

snip


Pattonesque was quoting Samial, not you.

#10 crazytimes

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:21 PM

View PostMauttyKoray, on 04 April 2021 - 02:07 PM, said:


The bolt ons were already a community favorite and having them stay attached made them even better customization items that other people can actually see.


There are almost no bolt-ons in QP. The venn diagram of people who care about bolt ons and people who play modes outside of Solaris has almost no overlap. I'm not even sure there is an overlap for people who play in Solaris.

Calling it a "community favourite" is a bit of a strech. "Utter waste of resources", or "not the best decision, but not as bad as doubling cERPPC damage was" is perhaps better.

#11 My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:32 PM

View PostSamial, on 04 April 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Man you ask for a more closer version of Mechwarrior and the meta people go bananas.. That's fine keep making lights the size of mice, its only going to backfire on them anyway..


What is the issue with making lights small? Their tank is speed tanking and the small size is absolutely necessary for this. If you make them bigger you run into two issues, either they become redunant compared to 40/45t mediums or you give them armour quirks and then make 40/45t mediums redundant.

#12 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 08:39 PM

View PostSamial, on 04 April 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Man you ask for a more closer version of Mechwarrior and the meta people go bananas.. That's fine keep making lights the size of mice, its only going to backfire on them anyway..


I don't mind Lights being small, but I don't think their survivability should be heavily reliant on their size. And they complain that streaks are anti-lights. The reality is that most weapon are pretty much anti-light, Streaks are just the most accessible in the low-end of the player skill, you're actually better off with an HGR against a Flea IF YOU CAN LAND IT.

It could be normalized and perceived to be more fair if every other weapon is just as reliable in hitting that small bugger, and just approach it with armor and structure quirks.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 April 2021 - 08:47 PM.


#13 Bowelhacker

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 09:59 PM

View PostAleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 04 April 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

I have played many online games, and for the most part, MWO is probably near the top of my list of LEAST toxic player base. There are very few online games out there with such a nice community... especially considering it has its own in-game voice chat built in. I am honestly amazed, considering that, in most games with in-game voice communication, I am often verbally attacked almost daily.. where as in MWO, I have maybe been verbally attacked once or twice... in my whole MWO career.


There was a VERY angry guy in a faction game yesterday. Very free with advice he wasn't following himself and tearing into everyone. Kind of funny, partly because it does seem so rare.

#14 Gagis

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Posted 04 April 2021 - 11:44 PM

View PostAleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 04 April 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

I have played many online games, and for the most part, MWO is probably near the top of my list of LEAST toxic player base.

There's a catch here. The community and players are amazing and definitely among the least toxic.

These forums however, are in no way or form representative of that community and player base, and have been absolutely horrible since day one.

#15 General Solo

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 02:01 AM

So you say

#16 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 04:28 AM

View PostGeneral Solo, on 05 April 2021 - 02:01 AM, said:

So you say

No, he’s right. The trick is not to focus on that one negative, acidic compliant and look at the whole thing. Kind of like how when there’s a plane crash in the news and every news outlet goes nuts reporting on every danger or incident for a while... traveling by plane is still much safer than driving, but you wouldn’t know it by listening to the news. Ditto with the online community, the good gets shouted over from time to time.

#17 Meep Meep

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 04:40 AM

The forums have their own meta game. Posted Image

So far the cauldron changes look promising so lets see how they work out once implemented. Certainly has to be better than the current clam ppc spam going on due to the bugged splash.

#18 VeeOt Dragon

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 05:49 AM

yeah honestly the community on the forum and that of the game are completely difference. there is a lot of animosity on the forums and not near as much in game (well other than nascar complaints that i fully agree with).

as a lore hound myself i honestly feel i have to defend it constantly on the forums while in game i have some nice lore chats. TT rules don't apply but the Lore should always be considered. its a good place to look for querking a mech or scaling (with considerations to the inconsistencies of course.)

#19 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 06:18 AM

View PostVeeOt Dragon, on 05 April 2021 - 05:49 AM, said:

as a lore hound myself i honestly feel i have to defend it constantly on the forums while in game i have some nice lore chats. TT rules don't apply but the Lore should always be considered. its a good place to look for querking a mech or scaling (with considerations to the inconsistencies of course.)


Exactly. The Lore is what the genre is built on, the Lore should always play a part. Playability is the most important thing, but it has to be based on Lore.

That said, if someone wants to reduce the slots for an IS LBX/20 from 11 to 10, I'm pretty sure that won't stop the sun from rising on New Avalon. Posted Image

#20 General Solo

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 07:05 AM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 05 April 2021 - 04:28 AM, said:

No, he’s right. The trick is not to focus on that one negative, acidic compliant and look at the whole thing. Kind of like how when there’s a plane crash in the news and every news outlet goes nuts reporting on every danger or incident for a while... traveling by plane is still much safer than driving, but you wouldn’t know it by listening to the news. Ditto with the online community, the good gets shouted over from time to time.


So you say





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