Jump to content

More Camping Lately?


124 replies to this topic

#41 Surefoot

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 55 posts
  • LocationGeneva, Switzerland

Posted 04 June 2021 - 08:43 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 04 June 2021 - 06:09 AM, said:

The amount of times I've won because of or at least come close to carrying the win is phenomenal. Happens so, so often. Even in a 600m ranged mech - play it at 600m. There is no need to be in range of everything from SPL, SRM to MRMs and HGauss if you don't need to be.

You didnt mention the important part, even playing at range you still try and present different targets to the opfor so they distribute damage instead of focusing. Being able to focus fire, or denying the capability to do so is the key here.
Having played against Emp in faction play a few years ago, I didnt fail to notice you did occupy high ground as much as possible (or high ridges) and present a lot of targets, and cycled who peeked over and who didnt, and overall shared the damage across the team denying us the opportunity to eliminate one particular target.

What's usually infuriating in QP is the "sniper" who's still 99%+ at the end of a lost game, who's done next to nothing until that point, and certainly let his team mates get focused while he was hiding away, then suddenly pop out and farm damage and maybe a few opportunity kills since opfor has usually lost a lot of armor. That's despicable behavior.

Edited by Surefoot, 04 June 2021 - 08:45 AM.


#42 Vlad Ward

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Merciless
  • The Merciless
  • 3,097 posts

Posted 04 June 2021 - 08:51 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 04 June 2021 - 06:09 AM, said:


Agreed.

Playing a build/mech how it should be rather than the "you need to be up the front sharing your armour" mantra that is largely pedalled in the lower tiers/units.


The amount of times I've won because of or at least come close to carrying the win is phenomenal. Happens so, so often. Even in a 600m ranged mech - play it at 600m. There is no need to be in range of everything from SPL, SRM to MRMs and HGauss if you don't need to be.


Sadly, Tier 1 is now a lower tier for all intents and purposes. It's inescapable.

#43 Rex Matador

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guillotine
  • Guillotine
  • 235 posts
  • Locationah hah!

Posted 04 June 2021 - 11:16 AM

View PostKhobai, on 03 June 2021 - 10:00 PM, said:


more often than not people in ranged mechs suck.


Suck what? the marrow from the bones of their vanquished foes? an ice-cube because they are just so darn hot? Oh! oh! is it the end of one of those classy long cigarette-holders while they sit on the shoulder of their mech looking all sophisticated and classy after another win?

Let me know!

View PostSurefoot, on 04 June 2021 - 08:43 AM, said:

What's usually infuriating in QP is the "sniper" who's still 99%+ at the end of a lost game, who's done next to nothing until that point, and certainly let his team mates get focused while he was hiding away, then suddenly pop out and farm damage and maybe a few opportunity kills since opfor has usually lost a lot of armor. That's despicable behavior.


Hey, don't hate the player baby...

Posted Image

Edited by Johnny Slam, 04 June 2021 - 11:20 AM.


#44 KaptinOrk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • 136 posts

Posted 04 June 2021 - 11:22 AM

View PostSurefoot, on 04 June 2021 - 08:43 AM, said:

What's usually infuriating in QP is the "sniper" who's still 99%+ at the end of a lost game, who's done next to nothing until that point, and certainly let his team mates get focused while he was hiding away, then suddenly pop out and farm damage and maybe a few opportunity kills since opfor has usually lost a lot of armor. That's despicable behavior.


It's always a heavy or assault too, bonus points if they're a LRM boat without backup weapons, tag or active probe.

Edited by KaptinOrk, 04 June 2021 - 11:23 AM.


#45 Grus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Devil
  • Little Devil
  • 4,155 posts

Posted 04 June 2021 - 11:39 AM

The game rewards you dealing damage way more than getting hit. If you don't get hit and deal alot of damage, you get lots of cbills.

So why are people surprised about "camping"?

#46 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 04 June 2021 - 11:40 AM

yeah you still see ridiculous assault builds with 4 LRM20s and no other weapons

#47 Rex Matador

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guillotine
  • Guillotine
  • 235 posts
  • Locationah hah!

Posted 04 June 2021 - 01:54 PM

View PostKhobai, on 04 June 2021 - 11:40 AM, said:

yeah you still see ridiculous assault builds with 4 LRM20s and no other weapons


Which blows my mind, they are so slow to range, slow to pick up new targets, slow to adjust, etc... Just a terrible LRM platform. Even in the rare case where a couple of lance are dropping together and work with it the Assault lrm'r is so bad, you may get a couple freak rounds where you destroy everything because of the others setting you up but it is very rare, and you will have to shift through a ton of bad rounds to get it.

Edited by Johnny Slam, 04 June 2021 - 01:55 PM.


#48 Wildstreak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 5,154 posts

Posted 04 June 2021 - 06:01 PM

View PostTier5 Kerensky, on 01 June 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Just wondering why. People advance for some point, but then they don't even poke.

One of the reasons I play MWO so little, I frequently find quite a number of players find a spot and camp usually a corner no matter what.
Doesn't matter if there are 2 or 8 enemies around the corner, they camp.
Doesn't matter too often if they get jumped from behind even in a fast Heavy or Medium, they just camp and poke the same direction.
Worst is when you got a full Lance or more camping the same corner.

As for not poking, one example could be long range sniping going on and the non-shooter is Brawl built or even mid range so cannot reach enemy.
Another may be a Light or Medium especially with ECM covering backsides of bigger Mechs from getting jumped and providing ECM cover without getting one shot or heavily damaged.

Edited by Wildstreak, 04 June 2021 - 06:03 PM.


#49 VeeOt Dragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 1,075 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 04 June 2021 - 09:53 PM

as an LRM player i can't stand all the hate. do i get my own locks, yes. do i take locks wherever i can get em, certainly. even if i don't manage kills i get some KMDD and strip armor so teammates can pick em off. mind you i try to stay with the rest of the team as much as i can though i will keep to mid-line (never rear as it makes you a target for those light mechs sneaking about.). hell an LRM boat seems to become priority target as soon as you are spotted. on a side note as a rule i never put LRM on an Assault and i always carry back-up weapons (usually a pair of MLs or 4 ER SLs if have the space, i don't always carry an active probe or Tag but i do sometimes)

a long range build should't really be in the front, leave that to the DPS brawlers. present a target yeah as the more targets the less the enemy focuses on just one but you don't serve the team by getting yourself killed after only one or two shots. each sort of build as a place in formation, not all are built to be front liners.

#50 Quandoo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 220 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 12:46 AM

They improved mech movement and all they do in QP is make use of buffed ranged weapons lol. They really need to reduce cbill rewards for useless mechs and state it with text at end screen. You play sniper, not sharing armor and not doing damage? -> hit them hard, multiplied by tonnage.

Like 4x lbx sniping kodiak, fresh after the team died with 200 damage at end. Had one of those in my last game. Also lock all mechs till game ends, rookies should learn by watching and not hopping from one game to another after they failed hard.

Edited by Quandoo, 05 June 2021 - 01:03 AM.


#51 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 04:37 AM

View PostVeeOt Dragon, on 04 June 2021 - 09:53 PM, said:

as an LRM player i can't stand all the hate. do i get my own locks, yes. do i take locks wherever i can get em, certainly. even if i don't manage kills i get some KMDD and strip armor so teammates can pick em off. mind you i try to stay with the rest of the team as much as i can though i will keep to mid-line (never rear as it makes you a target for those light mechs sneaking about.). hell an LRM boat seems to become priority target as soon as you are spotted. on a side note as a rule i never put LRM on an Assault and i always carry back-up weapons (usually a pair of MLs or 4 ER SLs if have the space, i don't always carry an active probe or Tag but i do sometimes)

a long range build should't really be in the front, leave that to the DPS brawlers. present a target yeah as the more targets the less the enemy focuses on just one but you don't serve the team by getting yourself killed after only one or two shots. each sort of build as a place in formation, not all are built to be front liners.


its the people taking up heavy and assault slots to lrm that makes everyone mad

you can lrm just as well in a medium mech

#52 Quandoo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 220 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 04:46 AM

lrm on assault is fine, like highlander with lurm 60 and 2x lbx10. you can push with such mechs...
but it's simply missused and wasting an assault slot has a high impact on your team

on the other end, i play assault. when i deal with 5 mechs at once, kill 3 while the fight takes 5 minutes - no one comes to help. they simply sit on their spot waiting for red targets, missing the time windows where they could do full dps. but noo, they rather stick to 200 dmg per round

this game is dead. it matches rookies with pros all time and tosses in few crappy trial mechs on top

Edited by Quandoo, 05 June 2021 - 04:54 AM.


#53 Wildstreak

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Civil Servant
  • Civil Servant
  • 5,154 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 05:31 AM

View PostQuandoo, on 05 June 2021 - 12:46 AM, said:

Also lock all mechs till game ends, rookies should learn by watching and not hopping from one game to another after they failed hard.

Should already be a penalty for leaving matches early as I understood it, getting less or no rewards.

#54 PocketYoda

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 4,136 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 05 June 2021 - 05:47 AM

View Postmartian, on 01 June 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

It is simple: The latest patches made many weapons more destructive, while keeping the amount of armor of 'Mechs unchanged. Thus, everybody is afraid of being hit.


Not afraid of being hit, sick and tired of being cored before i can even turn my mech.. 250ms ping time is slow with the amount of damage these mechs can carry.

So i need to be wary how i play my matches.

Edited by MechaGnome, 05 June 2021 - 05:47 AM.


#55 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 06:54 AM

View PostMechaGnome, on 05 June 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:


Not afraid of being hit, sick and tired of being cored before i can even turn my mech.. 250ms ping time is slow with the amount of damage these mechs can carry.

So i need to be wary how i play my matches.


yeah basically. alphas are insane right now.

even medium mechs can hit you for 70-80 damage and repeat it every few seconds

they need to increase internal structure IMO. that would increase TTK and also make critical hits matter more. because critical hits just dont matter in this game when internal structure gets taken out as fast as it does.

alternatively they could lower the damage on alphas but then ghost heat limits would have to be adjusted so increasing internal structure is probably a little easier.

Edited by Khobai, 06 June 2021 - 02:25 AM.


#56 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • 8,987 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 05 June 2021 - 09:10 AM

View PostKhobai, on 05 June 2021 - 04:37 AM, said:

you can lrm just as well in a medium mech


No you can't.

When you talk LRM80-95 vs LRM40-60 (+ammo +efficiency +defensive armour), you statement simply is not true, as usual.

The Assault DPS for Assaults with LRMs is some of the highest in the game. I mean this would have to be the 400th time you are wrong yet, here we are again. Just another false claim.

#57 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 05 June 2021 - 03:58 PM

One could argue that the mobility and lower threat profile of medium Lurmboats might be a worthwhile exchange compared to an assault LRM boat that is slow and gets a higher target priority over literally everyone else on their team.

But in terms of raw damage the big bois are of course unmatched.

#58 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 05 June 2021 - 04:46 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 05 June 2021 - 09:10 AM, said:


No you can't.

When you talk LRM80-95 vs LRM40-60 (+ammo +efficiency +defensive armour), you statement simply is not true, as usual.


im not just talking about just having LRM60 on a medium though. the stormcrow also gets 7 lasers too. while going 97kph.

I can run x4 LRM15s (LRM60) with 7.5 tons of ammo and x7 lasers (or x6 and a tag) on a 97kph stormcrow prime and have the actual ability to defend myself with more lasers than most IS assaults (and even most clan assaults) running LRMs. Its not uncommon for my stormcrow lrm build to break 1000 damage on an lrm friendly map like polar highlands. And if the map isnt friendly to LRMs I still have a large number of lasers so im not completely useless on anti-lrm maps like many lrm assaults.

furthermore medium lrmboats are more mobile and better able to position themselves and get their own locks without having to parasite off other people. which is the exact thing thats being criticized in this thread.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 05 June 2021 - 09:10 AM, said:

The Assault DPS for Assaults with LRMs is some of the highest in the game. I mean this would have to be the 400th time you are wrong yet, here we are again. Just another false claim.


who gives a **** about dps? dps doesnt mean ****. its your damage at the end of the game that matters.

the fact you think dps is the most important thing to an lrmboat makes it pretty obvious you dont know what the hell youre talking about. the most important thing for lrmboats is making sure your missiles connect to the target which means having constant locks on the target and an unimpeded flight path for your missiles and getting as close as possible so your missiles have the shortest flight path. the stormcrow excels at that.

yes assaults can outdps mediums. but they wont necessarily do more total damage. because assaults get focus fired and harassed by lights and are less likely to survive until the end of the match. medium mechs are survivors.

View PostFupDup, on 05 June 2021 - 03:58 PM, said:

But in terms of raw damage the big bois are of course unmatched.


I disagree.

a medium lrmboat is perfectly capable of doing the same damage as an assault lrmboat it just requires you to hit with a few more volleys and position yourself so you can get some laser pokes in. to say an assault lrmboat will always outdamage a medium lrmboat is simply wrong. because it will not always be the case. especially if the medium lrmboat can position itself better so more of its volleys hit and also poke with its 7 lasers, which is a big consideration.

also what youre forgetting is when you take a medium lrm boat your team should theoretically be getting another assault which hopefully has a real loadout, not lrms. in fairness you also have to factor in the extra damage that other assault will do because youve done your team a huge service by not taking an lrm assault.

Quote

When you talk LRM80-95 vs LRM40-60 (+ammo +efficiency +defensive armour), you statement simply is not true, as usual.


a dumb lrm assault with four LRM20s will get wrecked by a flea or piranha. lmao. I see it happen all the time its hilarious. most people who play lrm assaults get completely wrecked by lights. and an lrm95 assault? really? what a **** build. what do you have like 2 lasers? lmao. Again lights will eat you alive.

i will take an lrm stormcrow that goes 97kph with LRM60 and 7 lasers that can actually defend itself vs lights over any lrm assault any day of the week. I can kite heavies and assaults all day with lrms. can your assault go 97kph and always stay at a distance and be in the perfect spot to LRM? no it cant. because youre going like 64kph at most and probably way slower than that... on a huge *** assault that gets focus fired and harassed by lights and cant defend itself properly against lights.

GTFO out of here with your LRM assaults. that **** is terrible and hurts your team. Stormcrow is the best LRM mech in the game. Or one of the best I should say. Theres a couple other good ones too.

Edited by Khobai, 06 June 2021 - 02:34 AM.


#59 martian

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 7,578 posts

Posted 07 June 2021 - 08:42 AM

View PostMechaGnome, on 05 June 2021 - 05:47 AM, said:

Not afraid of being hit, sick and tired of being cored before i can even turn my mech.. 250ms ping time is slow with the amount of damage these mechs can carry.

So i need to be wary how i play my matches.

Well, even players with much better Ping than yours behave timidly quite often.

#60 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • 8,987 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 07 June 2021 - 03:25 PM

View PostKhobai, on 05 June 2021 - 04:46 PM, said:

who gives a **** about dps? dps doesnt mean ****. its your damage at the end of the game that matters.

the fact you think dps is the most important thing to an lrmboat makes it pretty obvious you dont know what the hell youre talking about.


lol I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm not the one who has consistently, over years, posted nothing but constant misinformation on the pages of this forum. I mean you think the SCR is a good LRMboat... It's one of the worst Mediums to use.


LRM / Assault DPS matters, it's critically important. You want to be sending the maximum amount of missiles (damage) while the target is under vision/lock. That is what wins games and overall damage is simply a byproduct of it.

This means max firepower tree. Enough DHS to balance the build out and also ability to alpha all the tubes at once should the lock window be short etc etc.

I mean my record/stats speak for themselves as to whether I know what I'm talking about or not. Hopefully people are smart enough to work out who is right.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users