12 replies to this topic

[Wid1046]

While getting stuck on terrain can happen to any mech, it happens most often to mechs that have jump jets. The problem is that even though you have jump jets, they won't recharge while you're counted as being in mid-air. This could easily be fixed by having the game either check if you've been in free-fall for more than 10 seconds (aren't on the ground and haven't touched your jump jets) or check if you're doing more than 200 kph (which it only registers you as going 200 to 500 kph if you're stuck on terrain) and allow your jump jets to recharge.

This skips fixing the maps (which would be more difficult and time consuming) and slaps a band-aid on the problem, but it would at least allow for players to escape most of the time when they get stuck on terrain.

[Khobai]

jumpjets should constantly recharge regardless of whether youre in the air or not

it makes no sense that jumpjets can only recharge when youre on the ground

they might have to increase the jump jet consumption rate to compensate for the constant recharge but I dont see that as an issue.

Edited by Khobai, 06 June 2021 - 07:12 AM.

[il1il]

So if we follow the logic of jump jets charging while stuck in a wall. Why would the game in such a circumstance push the player out of the area when it detects this? Lights get stuck more often on the ground and walls it seems they have a lower ground clearance. That fix could also help in the case for them... how dos the game know the correct direction? What ever direction the mech came from. I believe some of this problem is caused by the fact the collision box is a cylinder slightly larger than the maximum dimensions of most mechs. A blanket 10% reduction in this metric could save alot of clunky in game movement. and player collision.

[Armchair General]

Thread moved to Feature Suggestion

[LordNothing]

i think its more a map design problem, there are too many grabby walls that are hard to jump because you get hung up on something. i find you got to do a running jump most of the time at the correct distance and off of a positive ramp to make most jumps. you cant stand next to a wall and expect to get on the ledge in most cases. if there is any kind of overhang or detail it wont work.

i think vectorable jets would solve this. you could jump straight up to the needed height and then angle your torso down to get a little bit of a forward thrust at the apex to put you on the ledge. you would gain the most altitude while level but if you are leaning all the way forward or back you would trade all your vertical acceleration for forward/reverse acceleration. using jumps to navigate terrain would become a lot easier. you could also jump up into the air a couple meters and then crank it forward and cover distance that way which gives it a little more utility and makes them a bit more fun to use.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2021 - 04:13 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Right so now Johnny Noclip gets unlimited jump jet fuel as he glitches up a cliff. I suppose at least with this poorly thought out proposal there might be some merit to the various cheat threads going around.

[LordNothing]

i remember i once had a run up the wall glitch in a locust in steiner coleseum. i just ran into the wall, i expected to stop, but it catapulted me up the side really fast to the equal bemusement to both myself and my opponent. i think i got legged when i finally fell back down. needless to say the lethality of a one legged locust leaves something to be desired.

[Wid1046]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2021 - 04:11 PM, said:

i think its more a map design problem, there are too many grabby walls that are hard to jump because you get hung up on something. i find you got to do a running jump most of the time at the correct distance and off of a positive ramp to make most jumps. you cant stand next to a wall and expect to get on the ledge in most cases. if there is any kind of overhang or detail it wont work.

i think vectorable jets would solve this. you could jump straight up to the needed height and then angle your torso down to get a little bit of a forward thrust at the apex to put you on the ledge. you would gain the most altitude while level but if you are leaning all the way forward or back you would trade all your vertical acceleration for forward/reverse acceleration. using jumps to navigate terrain would become a lot easier. you could also jump up into the air a couple meters and then crank it forward and cover distance that way which gives it a little more utility and makes them a bit more fun to use.

While I agree that fixing all the buggy spots on all the maps would be the better solution, but it also isn't likely to ever happen since it would require a lot of resources. Francois is fixing the layouts of the maps and not really looking at each and every place where you could get stuck. Even once he finishes with the layouts of all the maps it would be a better use of his time (in my opinion) to work on fixing the invisible walls.

This is just a band-aid solution, but I think it would work well and is reasonable in terms of how much developer time would be required to implement the fix.

I like your idea of being able to vector your jump jets, but it wouldn't really solve the problem of being stuck somewhere without your empty jump jet fuel replenishing. If you pose that in its own feature suggestion thread it might get some traction.

[Wid1046]

il1il, on 07 June 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:

So if we follow the logic of jump jets charging while stuck in a wall. Why would the game in such a circumstance push the player out of the area when it detects this? Lights get stuck more often on the ground and walls it seems they have a lower ground clearance. That fix could also help in the case for them... how dos the game know the correct direction? What ever direction the mech came from. I believe some of this problem is caused by the fact the collision box is a cylinder slightly larger than the maximum dimensions of most mechs. A blanket 10% reduction in this metric could save alot of clunky in game movement. and player collision.

The times when I've gotten stuck on terrain I was not actually 'in' a wall. This is a solution for if you get stuck on terrain, not in terrain. For example, if you land on the 'seam' between two crates on Crimson Straight it will sometimes count you as still being in the air so you can't walk and your jump jets won't recharge (also happens on all other maps where crates are near to one another). Also, I recently got stuck while trying to get to one of the control points on Rubellite Oasis; I was trying to get up a cliff, but landed on a couple spikey parts of the cliff that were jutting out. In this case again I was not 'in' the cliff, but had landed on a part that counted as still being in mid air, so I couldn't walk and my jump jets wouldn't recharge either. In both of these cases if I had jump jet fuel I'd be able to jump jet away.

Getting stuck 'in' terrain can also be a problem, I played a match a few months ago where one of the enemy players somehow fell inside one of the buildings on Solaris City (which was especially annoying since it was skirmish), and this would not fix cases like that. I think that my proposal is a low resource way of at least fixing most of the stuck 'on' terrain problems even if it probably won't help the stuck 'in' terrain problems. I believe getting stuck 'in' terrain is a rarer problem, but I could be wrong (and fixing one of the two problems is better than neither).

I'm not familiar with the issue that you're bringing up regarding relative size of the collision boxes, so I don't have an opinion on that. If that would be easier to implement or a more reliable way of fixing the problem, then it should certainly be considered. Can you either go into more detail on that or point me towards a thread on it?

[LordNothing]

Wid1046, on 08 June 2021 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is just a band-aid solution

pgi "quality"

[il1il]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2021 - 04:11 PM, said:

i think its more a map design problem,

Its a series of map design problems. You can fix them 1 by 1 or address why they occur and use less resources. Lights don't appear to have enough ground clearance. and the existing unstuck feature that pushes you out of the wall is failing in some cases. This could be remedied with a higher light ride height and allowing a known safe ground position to be issued if the unstuck system fails.. While some problems of the maps just need fixed, the hole in solaris building is a good example.

(I am assuming the game has the unstuck feature based on how the player will often float away from roof tops and repeatedly bounce when clipping a wall. but it seems a fair assumption.)

[LordNothing]

il1il, on 10 June 2021 - 02:55 PM, said:

Its a series of map design problems. You can fix them 1 by 1 or address why they occur and use less resources. Lights don't appear to have enough ground clearance. and the existing unstuck feature that pushes you out of the wall is failing in some cases. This could be remedied with a higher light ride height and allowing a known safe ground position to be issued if the unstuck system fails.. While some problems of the maps just need fixed, the hole in solaris building is a good example.

(I am assuming the game has the unstuck feature based on how the player will often float away from roof tops and repeatedly bounce when clipping a wall. but it seems a fair assumption.)

idk it seems it would cost more to fix all the maps than to do vectorable jump jets. i remember back in my quake modding days that one of the quake-c tutorials was simply named "jetpack". it was a very short tutorial. doing it in a modern game engine where you can just #include whatever you need seems like it would be a lot easier.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 June 2021 - 03:53 PM.

[Triveros]

Getting stuck on terrain is my biggest gripe about this game. Like moving forward and there's a little rubble underneath you and then not being able to move back the exact way you just came even though it's technically flat. Sometimes it's like invisible walls just appear out of nowhere even though you just walked through it.