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Why Always Nascar


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#1 PurpleDragoon

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 10:16 PM

Ok to be clear , I swear that PGI has filled the player base with AI , can not see a logical reason to run in a death race every game. You get half the team on board not to do it ... the other half flat out ignores you . It is a very brain dead move to keep doing yet people complain and still do it because they are literally being forced to by the rest of the nascar junky team . To also have people who do not want to work with the team say NEGATIVE to any plan proposed. People not working with people in a team based game . Seems foolish to me .

Reality is , lights are made to flank . If the whole team moves that way , it is no longer a flank and then the lights can no longer do their job properly. On top of that , the snipers and assaults get wrecked by the lights from the other team due to no protection . Even if a bunch of guys are right there , they ignore the cry for help and keep walking in a circle....

To me , this ruins the actual game play . Not even sure how to fix it . People are sheep and refuse to change . OR PGI has put in a bunch of AI to fill games.....

Your thoughts on this nascar problem?

#2 Gagis

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 11:24 PM

Its a skill level problem. Its better to be the one who flanks than the one who gets flanked by the enemy, which is known and strongly felt by everyone.

However, players lack situational awareness about when they are about to enter unfavourable terrain or have entered such good terrain that they should stop the movement. That is a skill level problem.

Or alternatively, if skill level gets low enough people won't have the situational awareness to expect an enemy flank they'd want to evade. Nascar can stop that way too.

Edited by Gagis, 21 July 2021 - 11:24 PM.


#3 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 03:39 AM

thats like other Games...CoD COOP Zombies, and the Teams dies in the First Level ,while 2 of 4 will ot play as Team ..Oh..CoD to fast and to many Teamplay ,im going to a Game with Slow Big mechs,thats can destroy alone the World the most thinking like Bots, plays like Bots and thinking the others all Bots

when the most in my Team have Callsigns like 456738 or Super-@venger-ZombieKillerMech ...the Match is Lost

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 22 July 2021 - 04:03 AM.


#4 The Basilisk

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 04:33 AM

While the "running in circles" problemeatic seems to be always the same it has a number of very diverse und surprisingly unrelated causes resulting in this symptom.

-- Run and gun philosophy: One of the most propagated playstyles for medium and faster heavy mechs like the Linebacker, Ebonjag, Timberwolf, Quickdraw or Dragon (maybe the Catapult too), same goes for Crab, Bushwacker, Huntsman, Stormcrow or Vapor Eagle(VE partly...i see them jumpsniping more often now).
What happens now is that the team either splits up in a blob of slower mechs that are more suited to poking, sniping or jumping and in a group of runners or that a lemming train effect (that looks like nascar) is caused.

-- Radial or spiral map design: the whole canyon series, very prominently HPG, and Caustic or old Polar on domination, Mining Collective.
The Radial design sometimes from the start or later on when Mechs can not get clear shots, get damaged or are out of range leads to tale chasing when one group starts to advance. Reason is not inherently bad skill but rather forcing 12 mechs through gates that need to advance to get clear shots or not to get stuck in an exposed position.

-- lateral cover rotations (River city, New Forest, Grim Plexus, Solaris City, Frozen classic): while looking very similar to above the reason for this behavior is not primarily the mapdesign (except for Forrest and River on Domination) itself but rather the limited grasp of players regarding cover, using mapfeatures and using monocentric builds while feeling the need to present the enemy their team members as bait.

While all those reasons lead to the same effect i.e. Mechs running in a circle around some point the reasons for them have to be addressed separately and therefore different strategys to counter those effects are needed.

Edited by The Basilisk, 22 July 2021 - 04:36 AM.


#5 VeeOt Dragon

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:07 AM

as someone who has played MWO for at least 4 years (though i am solid tier 3 average player at best) now i can say that at least the lower Tier players try new tactics or try using different parts of the map. honestly the Nascar gets worse the higher Tier you get. i don't know why honestly but the "git guud" crowd seem to be the least imaginative when it comes to tactics.

#6 Leone

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 05:10 AM

You could always head left.

~Leone.

#7 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:48 AM

I'll take a squad of pugs that endlessly nascars over a bunch of LRMers that hide in the low ground.

violence of action > being frozen

That said, people toss around the nascar term too easily. It seems most used by 100t pilots that think they deserve to get escorted into every pug match.

#8 VeeOt Dragon

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 02:22 PM

honestly if you leave your 100t mechs behind your not thinking about teamwork. that 100t mech is a lot of firepower to leave behind so they get torn apart without ever being able to fire back. i always stick with the Assaults if i can, especially if i am running ECM. working as a team is what wins battles.

#9 Ludo22

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Posted 28 July 2021 - 04:57 PM

There is a fine line between a nascar and a murder-ball. The fast heavy and medium mechs like to leave the assaults behind which creates the nascar. If they would let the assaults catch up and then start the turn as a group it can be devastating. It's usually a lack of situational awareness that causes this.

On the flip side I like to play 100T mechs and sometimes I'm not fast enough to keep up with the group. Especially if I start in the left most group. I either die, run the whole match, or try and hide. Hiding, when it works, is glorious. You get to start putting all your firepower into the enemy's rear after they have turned their backs to you.

#10 Brizna

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:27 AM

As mentioned above nascar problem worsens as you raise in tier, while it is a lot less prevalent in tier 5 matches. With this in mind let's accept the fact that nascar WORKS, at least in low communications and coordination situations such as Quick Play matches.

With that out of the way let me be clear, nascar working is not the same as saying it is the best working tactic one can chose, it's just better than 12 non coordinated guys wandering around aimlessly trying to see what the rest of the team plans to do while enemy team balls up and pushes your left flank. Intuitively anyone in Tier 1 knows that's going to happen, if you waste time the enemy death ball will eventually come and trample you. With this in mind you can: Join your team's Nascar (95% of people's choice) or rather than playing along with it, "playing" it. Since you know what your team and the enemy team are most likely doing, use your brains and set up an ambush for the enemy Nascar, for it will come almost for sure and when it does it will do following the same path every game.

It's pretty obvious but non nascaring is a lot easier if you have range and the ability to reach places where it's difficult for the enemy to just trample you such as JUMP jets. Being stealthy is also important so weapons that can be spotted from miles away such a as lasers and missiles are worse than gauss and ballistics and obviously ECM is a great boon. Whatever you use try to strike a good balance between firing and not being noticed by too many foes so you are overwhelmed.

I hope it helps, now you can use your brains or join the mindless nascar train. Your choice.

PS: Ironically if people begun not nascaring people would quickly realize how not so great it is and eventually the nascar would die out for the most part.

Edited by Brizna, 02 August 2021 - 04:32 AM.


#11 Wildstreak

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:48 AM

There was a time you could get one or a few people on comms who would propose something different and the team would actually listen.

However I believe most of those people are just gone having quietly left the game for whatever reasons.

Last time I saw something like that was on Oasis Incursion where a guy got the whole team to march straight towards the enemy base and directed at least 1 lance to focus on destroying things while the other 8 kept the enemy busy. It actually worked.

Other tactics can work, you just need 2 things.
1 - one or a few to give direction.
2 - a team that mostly listens, at least 8 need to do it if not all 12.

Like I said, I believe most left, you can tell from a lot of posts here a good number of the ones who stayed are the ones who just resigned to whatever happens now aka Zombie Players.

#12 pattonesque

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 06:10 AM

what helps me quite a bit is just telling people what I'm gonna do at the start of the match and request that they refrain from NASCAR.

"setting up in D5 for overwatch, no rotato plz" works more often than not

#13 VeeOt Dragon

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 07:28 AM

actually Nascar DOESN'T work. it is my experience that the first team to stop rotating and do something else is the first team to take the advantage and usually the victory. such as crossing the middle on Canyon. well as long as its not scattering to the winds. hell just counter rotating is enough. often when the rotation starts and i see that the enemy is faster i call for a halt and about face. this allows you to slam the enemy's faster and usually lighter mechs in the nose before the bigger mechs make contact. trouble is getting people to listen. i often just don't bother calling any kind of tactics because of people don't listen. honestly when i do use coms its to shoot the **** with folks or just chat builds and such. if i have had about all i can take of stupidity i will call folks out on it (most often lately it seems i get on teams where over half the team doesn't seem to know how to pull the trigger. they just run and hide).

#14 SunRunner

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 08:29 AM

Yeah its a complex issue with lots of causes. One not mentioned is all new players eventually try to go the other direction at least 2 or 3 times and they get the fun of having the enemy team murder ball them, even unsmart people eventually figure out their solo 100T mech of death running into a bunch of lights and mediums gets dead real fast. So they stay with the pack, also newer players often don't know the maps and what's going to happen and they assume the 1 or 2 that start moving have a plan and follow. Then all the middle people who were thinking of not Nascaring but have learned the dont be alone lesson see 4 or 5 people taking off and follow cause dont be alone is a thing.

Another problem is Trust. Everyone bunches up at choke points and wont push because they don't trust their team mates to follow them. This is correct most of the time, people don't want to die so they wont push when some times just pushing and getting killed will get 2 or 3 enemy mechs killed when they turn to deal with you, and result in a good trade for the team. This is also a new player lesson where generally they have 2 or 3 people stacked up behind them and they go LEROY around the corner into the enemy and then die a horrible death and realize no one followed them around the corner. Maybe one or 2 poked out and took a shot but that's it. Again it happens a few time and then they realize no one with back them and they just hide and try to poke. Dealt with this the other night in Faction Play when we only had 9 and a few randos we picked up ended up on our discord and in our group dropping with us. They were like holy crap this is amazing, you call a push and Every one actually gets up and charges like they are supposed to. Don't think any of them had actually experienced a game where people actually worked as a team, followed calls good or bad. And generally worked at winning instead of stat padding.





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