28 replies to this topic

[Doriam]

Hello
I want to rise issue with match score formula, where obviously you have higher value than higher damage you dealt.
It's kinda okay for situation where you fire and brawling and than some one steal your kill (or save you?)
But it's totally mess in ALL other situations.
You captured base? No score for you.
You kill enemy with headshot \ destroyed XL torso \ blew up ammo\ or simple backstabbed?
NO SCORE FOR YOU FOLK.
If you didn't do damage - you have no score.

I want to point, that I'm not speaking about mechwarrior Rank, but match Score that highly impact that Rank in Rank formula.

Honestly, I tired to kill 3 assaults on start game with backstab by light and get "Gtfo from here, there play real boys with big toys".
I tired to defend capture point on conquest from two light mechs (because no one will, and because we will loose if I don't). KILL THEM BOTH SOLO, get 130 damage aaaaand... get score near the ground.
Seriously, why you even need other game modes than skirmish and mech tonnage lower than 55 in MWO? What's design of this? Giving handicap to enemy? Show altruism?
I don't know what vision on situation you have, but on my view it's need to be fixed.

[GuardDogg]

The objectives are pointless. Why they have objectives is questionable, when they are all skirmish. Why even have them. Fight first, objectives last.

[w0qj]

There are numerous threads about this very topic time and time again on this forum.
The most recent one is:

Piloting Skill Rating Change
http://mwomercs.com/...l-rating-change

Match ranking: how you did against your 12-man team, and how you did against the other 23 players including your opposing team. That's what determines your rewards, and your PSR up/down arrow.

First and foremost, damage is king. Tape down your mouse button to keep it on continuous firing mode to increase your damage, and your match ranking will go up. Damage done is a big factor (some reckon that damage factors as 50% of your match ranking weighting). OK, I exaggerated a bit about taping down your firing mouse button, but you get the drift

A large number of "Assists" also helps; getting 7+ assists almost always pad up your match ranking.
Doing a large number of UAV scouting also helps. Note: that enemy you've just hit has to die before you get your assist!

Then comes Kill/KMDD/Solo_Kill, which only helps to pad up your match ranking.
(Hence your valid observation that kills doing very little damage like head-shots does not help much in your match rankings).

Equipping AMS to destroy missiles also helps somewhat, even if the missiles were targeted at your teammates and not you. Hence mechs with 2/3/4x AMS hardpoint mechs are sometimes used.

Capture times also factor in, but significant only when you are almost tied with other players' match ranking when final calculations are being made. Hence GuardDogg's remarks that eliminating opponents is first priority.

Good luck!

Edited by w0qj, 26 July 2021 - 08:04 AM.

[Gagis]

GuardDogg, on 25 July 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

The objectives are pointless. Why they have objectives is questionable, when they are all skirmish. Why even have them. Fight first, objectives last.

Simple. Objectives break stalemates. You can't try to avoid fighting for the whole match if there is an objective your opponent can use to force your hand.

This is why most competitive matches are Conquest.

However, AMS use is massively overrewarded and damage is slightly overrewarded relative to kills.

Edited by Gagis, 26 July 2021 - 12:01 AM.

[Brizna]

Many people criticized the Match Score formula from the beginning. In my opinion its an endeavour doomed to fail no matter what because, simply put, good match performance is too difficult to analyse with an algorithm and probably can't even be summed up in a single number.

There are obviously parts of the formula that stand out as being more problematic than others, but honestly getting rid of it all would still be the best option from a formal point of view, W/L is the only good indicator of performance in the long run that we have.

[HauptmanT]

As it stands, player average match score hovers around 200 per match.

A recent thread has the OP start some games with his Triple AMS Kitfox, and just toss up a couple UAVs, absolutely no shots fired.
Still scored an average of 200-150 score.

If he tried a fast light with tag, did some scouting and held locks for Lurmers he'd do even better.

Pull the trigger a couple times with other supporting things and you are well above average.
Damage is not the end all be all. It just requires the least brain effort, and with a bit of luck can pay off better. Those rare 1200 damage games will double the average. Last month, I spent doing all that silly little Kitfox shenanigans, and it put me at 75% (5000th) on the leader board. This month I was a lot more damage focused, we'll see how it differs when Jarl's updates.

[R Valentine]

GuardDogg, on 25 July 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

The objectives are pointless. Why they have objectives is questionable, when they are all skirmish. Why even have them. Fight first, objectives last.

Because without objectives, players can either come to a stalemate and refuse to engage each other, or the last player standing can run off and hide in a corner for 10 minutes to avoid damaging their stats. Objectives break both scenarios. You might not be able to kill that last player, but you can at least make the game end. And using the objective to leverage a stand off can force your opponent to come out even would they would rather cower behind the hill. Objectives are 100% necessary. Skirmish is easily the worst game mode, because it's too easily exploited.

[1453 R]

It amuses me, in a bitter irony sort of way, when people complain about objective game modes in this game when Domination is widely known as the most popular/most voted game mode. Domination often wins out even over Skirmish, simply because people are so desperate to avoid even the most basic forms of tactical maneuvering in this game. Domination is the mode that says "the fight will happen here. In this spot. No fighting will happen anywhere else, and if you try to be anywhere else at all, for any length of time, you lose for free." And people love it, and vote for it every goddamned time, while Conquest gets people grouching and snarling in all chat every time someone with a big enough modifier forces it through.

Anyways. Yeah, match score sucks. It won't ever not suck. There's no algorithmic way to determine how much impact you had on the match, so they just throw out a guesstimate approximation because people shriek when they can't see detailed stats. Even then, there's easy ways to fix the formula that we'll never see because active development of this game is dead. We're just getting corpse twitches at this point. if that ain't enough for you, I recommend abandoning ship, because it'll never get better.

[Curccu]

Gagis, on 26 July 2021 - 12:01 AM, said:

Simple. Objectives break stalemates. You can't try to avoid fighting for the whole match if there is an objective your opponent can use to force your hand.

This is why most competitive matches are Conquest.

However, AMS use is massively overrewarded and damage is slightly overrewarded relative to kills.

Yep HPG Manifold games were super awesome back in the day @ comp matches when they were skirmish, both teams sat on hills behind their spawns with erll boats, and because the one that attacks will lose that scenario neither team did nothing for whole match... ggclose.

[Doriam]

Brizna, on 26 July 2021 - 02:30 AM, said:

Many people criticized the Match Score formula from the beginning. In my opinion its an endeavour doomed to fail no matter what because, simply put, good match performance is too difficult to analyse with an algorithm and probably can't even be summed up in a single number.

There are obviously parts of the formula that stand out as being more problematic than others, but honestly getting rid of it all would still be the best option from a formal point of view, W/L is the only good indicator of performance in the long run that we have.

And still win by base capture is punishing team.

w0qj, on 25 July 2021 - 06:33 PM, said:

There are numerous threads about this very topic time and time again on this forum.
The most recent one is:

Piloting Skill Rating Change
http://mwomercs.com/...l-rating-change
...
Good luck!

I've made accent that I speak about match score, not rank

Edited by Doriam, 31 July 2021 - 02:24 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Domination wins for no rational reason.

At first I thought Domination won because it forced some people into Brawl range thus Brawlers were happy.

Over the past several months I have seen more Domination matches than you know play out as 2 people get to circle,
11 on one team go around the edge never coming near circle.
Other 11 realize this and leave circle to fight first 11.
One of the two in circle dies so the timer counts down while 22 people fight outside circle.

I still remember the one time I was in my ECM Javelin on Mining, I hit circle and hid by a wall.
My 11 allies all saw an Awesome in F row so they all go there to fight over who gets to kill it.
The 11 enemies who rushed center saw this and left circle to fight my 11 allies in the F row.
First I tried telling my allies they needed to get in circle but when the whole enemy team left it, I just laughed in All Chat at how most of those in F row on both teams voted for this mode only to abandon it while the timer counted down to Victory.

This happens more than you think.

[Cerebus23]

ai can do it you can teach it to get gud you can teach it to judge what is good and bad and it can austically analyze winning vs loosing strategies and team compositions.


few years ;p.

[katoult]

Since there have recently been some changes to matchscore in the usual intransparent, completely undocumented way:

Does anyone have a current list of point kickers for matchscore?

I am primarily wondering how - with AMS supposedly set to a zero kicker now (as well as zero C-Bill and XP return) - this fairly bad match performance here with a good mix of microachievements gives 224 match score (i.e. almost average across the playerbase!) on a win:

[dubstep albatross]

katoult, on 14 May 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

Since there have recently been some changes to matchscore in the usual intransparent, completely undocumented way:

Do you have a source for the change in match score rewards? I feel like I heard something about this change coming, but do not recall any official announcements.

[MrMadguy]

First of all. PGI tried to measure MS/XP for "support" role, but failed, as it's very hard to measure. So, we have some MS/XP for scouting and other similar stuff, but they aren't determining factors.

Second thing. I've got tired of explaining, that objectives are nothing more than points of interest. Goal is still the same - to destroy all enemies. If you want to play ObjectiveWarrior Online - then you've obviously chosen wrong game.

[Alexandros]

Stop worrying about Tiers and focus on having fun. On a 12v12 mess It doesnt matter how you played cause there are no tactics. Its murderball vs murderball which leads to snowball and nascar. When the game becomes Lance VS Lance (where what you do REALLY matters like in old Scouting mode) tiers would certanly matter and tactics would be on the table. Now just farm Cbills and mechs.

Edited by Alexandros, 14 May 2022 - 09:55 AM.

[Knownswift]

I guess it's a good thing any behavior that is an actual positive contribution is represented in the win loss ratio.

[Ihlrath]

MrMadguy, on 14 May 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

Second thing. I've got tired of explaining, that objectives are nothing more than points of interest. Goal is still the same - to destroy all enemies. If you want to play ObjectiveWarrior Online - then you've obviously chosen wrong game.

I disagree. Mechwarrior is a game about war. War has objectives and tactics. Objectives as they are.. I mean yeah they kinda suck. But if they were done better they could really create a more interesting game then stomp up, look for enemy, get blasted by the sniper ERLL boat hanging at the edge of the map.

Objectives, especially in this meta, can neutralize the sniper spam by forcing them to have to do something other than sit back and press a mouse button at any sign of movement.

Also, Match Score makes absolutely zero sense. PSR makes less sense and is basically there so that those who need the ego boost can epeen all over themselves. Don't worry about it. Just have fun.

Edited by Ihlrath, 14 May 2022 - 11:27 AM.

[Curccu]

Ihlrath, on 14 May 2022 - 11:25 AM, said:

PSR makes less sense and is basically there so that those who need the ego boost can epeen all over themselves.

LOL

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

also:

Ihlrath, on 14 May 2022 - 11:25 AM, said:

Objectives, especially in this meta, can neutralize the sniper spam by forcing them to have to do something other than sit back and press a mouse button at any sign of movement.

you must have found an alternative mwo-universe, because in this one, objectives mean jack-sh*t. welcome to mwo; "support" less and shoot more

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 15 May 2022 - 04:45 AM.