23 replies to this topic

[TheStranger]

It would be nice if we could transfer C-bills to unit members as well as MC.

[IronWolfPack64]

With limits I think this may be possible. I think units should be able to give a signing bonus to new recruits. Maybe cap at 15-20M enough for them to buy 1 or 2 mechs an organized unit would require you to have for joining. Could really help new players get into the mode and outfit a drop deck.

[TheStranger]

That's a good idea. Also it would be nice for units, small one especially, to reward players that get most kills in a match etc. Being able to tally that for unit members would be handy too.

[Khalcruth]

TheStranger, on 07 August 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

It would be nice if we could transfer C-bills to unit members as well as MC.

They could do that, but then they'd have to completely stop giving out cbills and MC, or anything that could be sold for cbills or MC, in events, or in the cadet bonus, or really everywhere. Otherwise you end up with an infinite number of alt accounts that would effectively transfer an infinite amount of resources to one main account.

[justcallme A S H]

Transferring cbills would completely break the in-game economy(grind) and skip a lot of the monetisation PGI have in place.

So while nice it won't be happening unless the entire model changes.

[Nightbird]

PGI will not even let you transfer cbills between ALT accounts, so forget to strangers.

[Charles Sennet]

I would settle for a way for units to earn MC once again. We lost this in one of the FP 'enhancements' passes.

[TheStranger]

Khalcruth, on 10 August 2021 - 08:39 PM, said:

They could do that, but then they'd have to completely stop giving out cbills and MC, or anything that could be sold for cbills or MC, in events, or in the cadet bonus, or really everywhere. Otherwise you end up with an infinite number of alt accounts that would effectively transfer an infinite amount of resources to one main account.

Where would these infinite number of accounts come from? The cadet bonus barely gets one enough to buy two decent mechs, let alone being able to afford mech bays. It doesn't have to be much, say 20 million for each member. And of course someone has to donate that to the coffers in the first place.

[Khalcruth]

TheStranger, on 13 August 2021 - 08:27 PM, said:

Where would these infinite number of accounts come from? The cadet bonus barely gets one enough to buy two decent mechs, let alone being able to afford mech bays. It doesn't have to be much, say 20 million for each member. And of course someone has to donate that to the coffers in the first place.

Step 1. Have a main account you actually care about
Step 2. Create your own unit.
Step 3. Create an alternate account
Step 4. Play for two, maybe three hours using trial mechs and get the Cadet bonus
Step 5. Have alt account join the unit that the Main account made
Step 6. Transfer all 20million c-bills (plus whatever you happened to earn just by playing) to the unit
Step 7. Transfer everything in the unit coffers to the main account
Step 8. Repeat steps 3-7 as many times as you feel like.

For added bonuses, do this during an event (like the recent loot bag event) that gives bonus c-bills and / or mech credits.

Seriously, it's not hard to figure out how to break the in-game economy this way.

[IronWolfPack64]

Khalcruth, on 17 August 2021 - 08:29 PM, said:

Step 1. Have a main account you actually care about
Step 2. Create your own unit.
Step 3. Create an alternate account
Step 4. Play for two, maybe three hours using trial mechs and get the Cadet bonus
Step 5. Have alt account join the unit that the Main account made
Step 6. Transfer all 20million c-bills (plus whatever you happened to earn just by playing) to the unit
Step 7. Transfer everything in the unit coffers to the main account
Step 8. Repeat steps 3-7 as many times as you feel like

For added bonuses, do this during an event (like the recent loot bag event) that gives bonus c-bills and / or mech credits.

Seriously, it's not hard to figure out how to break the in-game economy this way.

Just make it a signing bonus deal where you get money transferred to your account when you join the unit. But only applicable to a player once that way they can’t just hop in and out of the unit farming cbills. Only thing this could do is give an alt a head start not having to play trial mechs. That’s why it should be capped at like 15M max

Granted this level of addition is extremely unlikely to be added….. but it would be nice tho.

Edited by IronWolfPack64, 17 August 2021 - 09:56 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

If this is wanted pgi could better up the cadet Bonus and are less vulnerable to cheats

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

I see this has become a topic of interest again.

A WHILE back, when PGI asked for feedback and ideas to improve the game - I had drafted a system for coffers that solved many issues with exploitation and allowed units to donate C-Bills and MC to players in there unit. It was widely approved by the community at the time, but was never touched as PGI had other goals in mind for the time (although I'm fairly certain Paul had taken notice of it).

I had saved it fortunately. Feel free to take it, edited, and do whatever with it. I want the coffers used too and if someone else is able to improve upon my idea or straight up come up with something better - be my guest. It isn't PERFECT, nothing is... but I think its good enough.

Coffers

Preface

The issue of how to use coffers has been met with two primary issues in the past. The first being exploitability via “gold farming” via creating secondary accounts with “cadet bonuses” and the second being breaking the in-game economy.

I am including solutions to both issues. I am also including ways to finally use that money.
Finally… and possibly most importantly… I have figured out a way for PGI to make money from this.

BASIC COFFERS USAGE
I. Generation and flow-control of funds to a unit.
A. How money comes in.
B. Anti-Exploitation and Flow Control.
II. How the unit can spend the money it gets.

GENERATION AND ANTI-EXPLOITATION OF UNIT FUNDS.

PART A. HOW MONEY COMES IN.

1. EXISTING CORE FEATURE – DONATION TO UNIT COFFFER (ALREADY IN GAME)

2. NEW CORE FEATURE – BUY UNIT MC: Allow people to directly buy their unit MC so leaders can give out MC as they see fit. (See anti-exploitation, already thought of potential loophole and its fix). OR Allow people to select a unit to buy MC even for units that aren’t their own. (Paying other units in true merc fashion). You can already buy a player MC, why not do this too? It’s easier for unit leaders to move MC to a player in game than buy a code, send it, and walk players through the activation…

3. OPTIONAL - End of game UNIT PAYMENT in Faction Warfare: System uses the same mechanics it would for a player without premium time to determine the cash it receives on victory or defeat. System tallies average match score of pilots in the drop to determine cash. (ONLY ACTIVATES WITH 4 OR MORE PILOTS (A LANCE) FROM SAME UNIT ARE IN THAT GAME).


PART B. ANTI-EXPLOITATION AND FLOW CONTROL MEASURES (USED AS A SET)

⦁ A player must be a member of the unit for at least (14-30) days before they can receive funds from the unit (MC or C-Bills). Extremely basic theft deterrent. Not perfect, but something.

⦁ A player must spend at least 25 million C-Bills in game before they can donate money to a coffer. Solves the “cadet bonus” exploitation issue.

⦁ A player must be a member of the unit for at least (14-30) days before they are allowed to donate C-BILLS. Further aids in “Cadet Bonus” exploitation issue.

⦁ No player can receive more than 10 million C-Bills per week from their unit. Prevents trillionaire units from ultra-dumping funds on their pilots, breaking the in game economy. (Its also better that MC be easier and faster to give to a pilot so that PGI can also make money.)

⦁ Hard Limit the amount of C-Bills able to be donated/earned to/by ANY UNIT regardless of size to 100 million C-Bills a week. This levels things a bit between various unit sizes and income brackets. Gives most units something to work towards each week. Makes buying MC more palatable and desirable to units as MC gifting has no cap or flow control.

⦁ Players cannot donate MC to unit with their own, account-bound MC. This prevents your events, which gift MC to players, from being abused. Can only buy a unit MC. Be completely unapologetic about this. It isn’t a pay to win game anyway, so MC being used in this way only gets units organized better and makes PGI greater income.

How the unit can spend the money it has.

EASIEST SYSTEM: Just add the system to gift C-Bills from coffer to pilot and buy unit MC. Follow Anti-Exploit systems and limits and you’ll be ok. No cap on how much MC a unit can give its pilots. PGI stands to profit off this far more than they risk losing/damaging anything. Just try it!

edited for spacing.

Edited by Vectoron The Black Minister, 18 August 2021 - 03:09 PM.

[IronWolfPack64]

Vectoron The Black Minister, on 18 August 2021 - 02:57 PM, said:

I see this has become a topic of interest again.

A WHILE back, when PGI asked for feedback and ideas to improve the game - I had drafted a system for coffers that solved many issues with exploitation and allowed units to donate C-Bills and MC to players in there unit. It was widely approved by the community at the time, but was never touched as PGI had other goals in mind for the time (although I'm fairly certain Paul had taken notice of it).

I had saved it fortunately. Feel free to take it, edited, and do whatever with it. I want the coffers used too and if someone else is able to improve upon my idea or straight up come up with something better - be my guest. It isn't PERFECT, nothing is... but I think its good enough.

Coffers

Preface

The issue of how to use coffers has been met with two primary issues in the past. The first being exploitability via “gold farming” via creating secondary accounts with “cadet bonuses” and the second being breaking the in-game economy.

I am including solutions to both issues. I am also including ways to finally use that money.
Finally… and possibly most importantly… I have figured out a way for PGI to make money from this.

BASIC COFFERS USAGE
I. Generation and flow-control of funds to a unit.
A. How money comes in.
B. Anti-Exploitation and Flow Control.
II. How the unit can spend the money it gets.

GENERATION AND ANTI-EXPLOITATION OF UNIT FUNDS.

PART A. HOW MONEY COMES IN.

1. EXISTING CORE FEATURE – DONATION TO UNIT COFFFER (ALREADY IN GAME)

2. NEW CORE FEATURE – BUY UNIT MC: Allow people to directly buy their unit MC so leaders can give out MC as they see fit. (See anti-exploitation, already thought of potential loophole and its fix). OR Allow people to select a unit to buy MC even for units that aren’t their own. (Paying other units in true merc fashion). You can already buy a player MC, why not do this too? It’s easier for unit leaders to move MC to a player in game than buy a code, send it, and walk players through the activation…

3. OPTIONAL - End of game UNIT PAYMENT in Faction Warfare: System uses the same mechanics it would for a player without premium time to determine the cash it receives on victory or defeat. System tallies average match score of pilots in the drop to determine cash. (ONLY ACTIVATES WITH 4 OR MORE PILOTS (A LANCE) FROM SAME UNIT ARE IN THAT GAME).


PART B. ANTI-EXPLOITATION AND FLOW CONTROL MEASURES (USED AS A SET)

⦁ A player must be a member of the unit for at least (14-30) days before they can receive funds from the unit (MC or C-Bills). Extremely basic theft deterrent. Not perfect, but something.

⦁ A player must spend at least 25 million C-Bills in game before they can donate money to a coffer. Solves the “cadet bonus” exploitation issue.

⦁ A player must be a member of the unit for at least (14-30) days before they are allowed to donate C-BILLS. Further aids in “Cadet Bonus” exploitation issue.

⦁ No player can receive more than 10 million C-Bills per week from their unit. Prevents trillionaire units from ultra-dumping funds on their pilots, breaking the in game economy. (Its also better that MC be easier and faster to give to a pilot so that PGI can also make money.)

⦁ Hard Limit the amount of C-Bills able to be donated/earned to/by ANY UNIT regardless of size to 100 million C-Bills a week. This levels things a bit between various unit sizes and income brackets. Gives most units something to work towards each week. Makes buying MC more palatable and desirable to units as MC gifting has no cap or flow control.

⦁ Players cannot donate MC to unit with their own, account-bound MC. This prevents your events, which gift MC to players, from being abused. Can only buy a unit MC. Be completely unapologetic about this. It isn’t a pay to win game anyway, so MC being used in this way only gets units organized better and makes PGI greater income.

How the unit can spend the money it has.

EASIEST SYSTEM: Just add the system to gift C-Bills from coffer to pilot and buy unit MC. Follow Anti-Exploit systems and limits and you’ll be ok. No cap on how much MC a unit can give its pilots. PGI stands to profit off this far more than they risk losing/damaging anything. Just try it!

edited for spacing.

I think this is great! At the very least let us buy our units MC so unit leaders can sponsor events with meaningful rewards.

[justcallme A S H]

Sadly still completely exploitable as previous unit leaders have done.

If you wanna buy MC and give it to people you do that via the store and gift codes.

[IronWolfPack64]

justcallme A S H, on 18 August 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

Sadly still completely exploitable as previous unit leaders have done.

If you wanna buy MC and give it to people you do that via the store and gift codes.

I want to be able to give out smaller amounts to several different people not a bunch to one. If only there was a way to buy mc like 100 or 200 at a time

justcallme A S H, on 18 August 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

Sadly still completely exploitable as previous unit leaders have done.

If you wanna buy MC and give it to people you do that via the store and gift codes.

Also seems pretty air tight to me? How is it exploitable?

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

justcallme A S H, on 18 August 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

Sadly still completely exploitable as previous unit leaders have done.

If you wanna buy MC and give it to people you do that via the store and gift codes.

I'm curious. What has been exploited beyond what I've already given solutions to - and why would said solutions to said exploits fail? I was pretty sure the anti-exploitation measures listed curtailed the issues enough to present a viable option, but would love constructive feedback!

EDIT: P.S. Glad you like it, IronWolf!

PPS.

As much as I would also love to see coffers used in some way - I do believe there are more important matters to attend to first that take priority over this. Plus it would require a grand redesign of their monetary system which could not be achieved over night under their current manpower constraints.

Edited by Vectoron The Black Minister, 19 August 2021 - 11:49 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

I mean if you have to ask...

Anyway NONE of this is ever going to happen for reasons already pointed out.

This might as well be discussing flat earth theories at this point.

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

EDIT *Redacted post for TLDR reasons*

Final:

There are options on the table. No one has to take them. There are also bigger things to be worked on at present time.

MechWarriors: Feel free to take the solution I provided and tweak it however you want. Transform it into something new. When PGI and MWO get to a point where Coffers could easily be considered - have plenty of ideas ready to go. Try for ideas that make PGI more money off MC in the process.

Nothing wrong with a bit of brainstorming. Nothing wrong with the game dev's making more money.

Edited by Vectoron The Black Minister, 19 August 2021 - 06:01 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

It takes away grind. Pgi earns money by offering legal was to reduce grind. It is not in pgi interest that wales shorten grind for their NEW units members (here pgi earn their main income).

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 20 August 2021 - 05:45 AM.

[vonJerg]

IronWolfPack64, on 19 August 2021 - 11:13 AM, said:

I want to be able to give out smaller amounts to several different people not a bunch to one. If only there was a way to buy mc like 100 or 200 at a time

And that would be the easyest solution for all the parties involved, both the PGI and units, implement small MC gift bundles in store for real life $. Something in 100-300MC scale.

Like 4x300MC (total 1200MC) for $6.95, you get 4 gift codes each worth 300MC for you to give out. Just a thought.

Edited by vonJerg, 20 August 2021 - 04:12 AM.