34 replies to this topic

[AjerWerklWerkl]

Many of the best players seem to use very low mouse sensitivity so that it's easy to aim precisely.

But then torso twisting is very slow...

How does one get the best of both worlds?

On one hand I know some people actually click a button mid-fight to change their mouse sensitivity, torso twist, and then click back down to low sensitivity... that sounds hard but I guess it can be learned.

On the other hand, the best players seem to play with a GIANT mousepad (my mouse area is like 8 inches by 8 inches and it would be tricky to set up a huge space).

Like VeeOt Dragon below, I just flick the mouse and turn my feet and that seems to get decent results. But would love better ideas! (I keep some slight acceleration on for that... what I would LOVE is a "dead zone" where there is no acceleration, and then lots of acceleration outside of that zone. That would balance precise aiming with fast torso twisting!)

Advice/thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Edited by AjerWerklWerkl, 05 September 2021 - 06:24 PM.

[John Bronco]

You use your arm's movement and big a mouse pad...no different from any other game really.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i don't know but it helps if you turn your legs at the same time. you can often get a slightly faster twist that way. as for using Macros (thats the pressing a button to change mouse sensitivity thing. its essentially programing a button outside the controls of the game to do something not intended.) i consider using them cheating and refuse to do it under any circumstances.

also some people are just much better at that sort of thing than others. i know i am not the greatest at torso twisting. i have hand tremors so i have to keep my sensitivity down and i don't bother much with precise fire due to them. i figure as long as i am hitting a part of the mech where they they have something important i am doing my job.

[Elizander]

You can just adjust your sensitivity so that you can twist fast enough with whatever range of motion is available to your hand and go with that.

[LordNothing]

i put a 32 bit adc in my joystick and increased the handle length by 2 feet.

[HauptmanT]

LordNothing, on 05 September 2021 - 08:29 AM, said:

i put a 32 bit adc in my joystick and increased the handle length by 2 feet.

Joystick? In MWO? You're kidding right? Well I mean T3 with as many posts as you have, being so old, maybe you're not.

Never use controlers in the game (except pedals for turning, which work well) because the game doesnt support them properly. Mouse is a must use.

I dug out my CHpro and pedals specifically for this game, had to find a USB adapter, and it just didnt work at all. There was no anolog control, or not well implemented enough. The speed of torso twist based on amount of stick movement just didnt work worth a damn. Even redownloaded MW4 to make sure it wasnt something to do with my USB adapter. Nope, it's the game. Use a mouse.

My pedals work perfectly however. So that was a plus.

[Gagis]

Nah, 32bit adc and 2 foot extenders are perfectly normal joystick povergaming enhancements.

Filthy tryhard, with his meta-joystick.

[LordNothing]

HauptmanT, on 05 September 2021 - 02:58 PM, said:

Joystick? In MWO? You're kidding right? Well I mean T3 with as many posts as you have, being so old, maybe you're not.

Never use controlers in the game (except pedals for turning, which work well) because the game doesnt support them properly. Mouse is a must use.

I dug out my CHpro and pedals specifically for this game, had to find a USB adapter, and it just didnt work at all. There was no anolog control, or not well implemented enough. The speed of torso twist based on amount of stick movement just didnt work worth a damn. Even redownloaded MW4 to make sure it wasnt something to do with my USB adapter. Nope, it's the game. Use a mouse.

My pedals work perfectly however. So that was a plus.

i was being funny, though i do own joysticks with said mods. but such controllers are only worth it in hard sims where actuators are non-instant. in an arcadey mech game with twitch shooter sensibilities its just going to tank your scores. i do use throttle and pedals though with my new g604.

interestingly the stick is excellent in mechwarrior 2. since it maps angle directly to torso rotation rather than being a rate controller. of course mw2 physics is even more primitive than mwo. in mwo you would need to have it map to a target yaw/pitch and have the torso seek the setpoint. modern game devs have forgotten how to code for sticks.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 September 2021 - 03:33 PM.

[HauptmanT]

LordNothing, on 05 September 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

i was being funny, though i do own joysticks with said mods. but such controllers are only worth it in hard sims where actuators are non-instant. in an arcadey mech game with twitch shooter sensibilities its just going to tank your scores. i do use throttle and pedals though with my new g604.

Yeh set my throttle to full for autorun in game. Take over with KB when the actual fighting starts. Cant imagine trying to steer with KB tho... digital steering has to be horrible for non pedal gnuBs.

But when watching other people play after I die... an aweful lot of t5 t4 people are using controllers, and you can tell. I try to warn them whenever I see it. I'm avoiding T3 like the plague. After the reset dropped me back down, I started having fun again. Hit t3 for a day last week just to see, and OMG, it's a different game entirely.

[LordNothing]

Gagis, on 05 September 2021 - 03:13 PM, said:

Nah, 32bit adc and 2 foot extenders are perfectly normal joystick povergaming enhancements.

Filthy tryhard, with his meta-joystick.

to be fair i used to play a lot of flight sims.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 September 2021 - 03:42 PM.

[Sawk]

LOL i do twist, and i use jump jets, and i do not aim my weapons, the low mouse speed, helps, but your probally twisting to far, i use my legs more, i aim the mech, and then adjust, the twist.
Many of the pilots if you watch there legs are carrying the mech, the twist is only 5%, if that, then add someone with jet, he/her is already have you.
ok i want you to watch i guy on twitter call mark roper, and his squirrel maze, he talks of them pointing there head, twisting and landing, there are pilots in this GAME, that can do that---- there aiming there mech, twisting and shooting all at the same time, a skill you need to learn.
GOOD luck in your quest--

Clanner name is SAWK

[1453 R]

You mentioned all the methods high-level gamers use in your original post.

Gaming mice developers put DPI adjustment buttons on their mice for a reason. High-level Pr0 G@m3rs are constantly using those buttons and adjusting their sensitivity on the fly. It's a skill they practice. In MWO it can be useful for sniping - lower yours sensitivity whenever you're in Advanced Zoom to steady your aim and increase your hit rate at distance.

The gigantic mousepads are because it's easier to train arm movements than movements of the wrist and fingers. Pr0 G@m3rs use their whole arm for mouse movement with low overall sensitivity because that improves repeatability and lets them be more consistent. They'll tell you to practice that style and you'll gain significant benefits.

Mostly, that's the whole thing. The pro's tricks aren't special, they just require you to practice and use those same tools. Any focused improvement to one's skills requires practice. If you don't want to muck with in-game DPI adjust or a large mouse surface, then you'll need to set your sensitivity to an intermediate level and just practice with that. Get better at riding the mouse and making precise shots with higher sensitivity, or get better at predictively twisting and using other methods to compensate for a slow twist.

Setting your sensitivity to ~0.6 or so has been a useful middle ground for me. You still get snappy, responsive twisting, but it drastically reduces the jitter and jumpiness that make any shots beyond brawling range a dicey proposition. I still need to drop my dpi when I'm punching with Advanced Zoom, but ~0.6 or so seems like a fair middle ground for people who mouse with their wrist instead of their arm.

[PocketYoda]

I just toggle my arm lock to F key and when i un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways it speeds up the mechs turning so its easier to shield with.. try it and see un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways with the mouse and keyboard...

I also have my DPI set to 500.

Edited by MechaGnome, 05 September 2021 - 05:20 PM.

[AjerWerklWerkl]

1453 R, on 05 September 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

You mentioned all the methods high-level gamers use in your original post.

Gaming mice developers put DPI adjustment buttons on their mice for a reason. High-level Pr0 G@m3rs are constantly using those buttons and adjusting their sensitivity on the fly. It's a skill they practice. In MWO it can be useful for sniping - lower yours sensitivity whenever you're in Advanced Zoom to steady your aim and increase your hit rate at distance.

The gigantic mousepads are because it's easier to train arm movements than movements of the wrist and fingers. Pr0 G@m3rs use their whole arm for mouse movement with low overall sensitivity because that improves repeatability and lets them be more consistent. They'll tell you to practice that style and you'll gain significant benefits.

Mostly, that's the whole thing. The pro's tricks aren't special, they just require you to practice and use those same tools. Any focused improvement to one's skills requires practice. If you don't want to muck with in-game DPI adjust or a large mouse surface, then you'll need to set your sensitivity to an intermediate level and just practice with that. Get better at riding the mouse and making precise shots with higher sensitivity, or get better at predictively twisting and using other methods to compensate for a slow twist.

Setting your sensitivity to ~0.6 or so has been a useful middle ground for me. You still get snappy, responsive twisting, but it drastically reduces the jitter and jumpiness that make any shots beyond brawling range a dicey proposition. I still need to drop my dpi when I'm punching with Advanced Zoom, but ~0.6 or so seems like a fair middle ground for people who mouse with their wrist instead of their arm.

Great post, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

MechaGnome, on 05 September 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

I just toggle my arm lock to F key and when i un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways it speeds up the mechs turning so its easier to shield with.. try it and see un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways with the mouse and keyboard...

I also have my DPI set to 500.

Ah yes! I had a similar thought a while back and never tried it -- glad to know your method works. Will try something like that... especially because so often I end up with my legs almost perpendicular with my body when I move out of cover. Tx!!

[justcallme A S H]

AjerWerklWerkl, on 05 September 2021 - 07:13 AM, said:

Advice/thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Oddly enough a few of us were talkin about this (in depth) today

Most mouse pads seem to be around 30cm x 30cm, that is my size and I'm only using about half of it, most of the time.

Low DPI for aiming is important and then unlocking arms will let you twist as the max rate for the mech. It does not make it faster however (common misconception), just at the max rate - or near max rate depending on just how low your DPI is.


Any of the skilled players that stream you can ask them to explain/show you when they are live and most are happy to demonstrate. You can play around with it and see yourself locked vs unlocked and it should become apparent quickly enough.

There isn't much more to it than that.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 September 2021 - 12:57 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

1453 R, on 05 September 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

Setting your sensitivity to ~0.6 or so has been a useful middle ground for me. You still get snappy, responsive twisting, but it drastically reduces the jitter and jumpiness that make any shots beyond brawling range a dicey proposition. I still need to drop my dpi when I'm punching with Advanced Zoom, but ~0.6 or so seems like a fair middle ground for people who mouse with their wrist instead of their arm.

0.6 is very, very high.

As I said we were all talking about this today and the spreadsheet came up.

REFER HERE

And you'll see most are a lot, lot lower than that as MWO and in-game sensitivity is pretty whack.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

MechaGnome, on 05 September 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

I just toggle my arm lock to F key and when i un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways it speeds up the mechs turning so its easier to shield with.. try it and see un-toggle locked arms and turn sideways with the mouse and keyboard...

I also have my DPI set to 500.

I use this, too. It doesn't speed up your torso movement, though. What it does is let you cover more twist range per mouse movement.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 06 September 2021 - 06:12 AM.

[1453 R]

justcallme A S H, on 06 September 2021 - 01:07 AM, said:

0.6 is very, very high.

As I said we were all talking about this today and the spreadsheet came up.

REFER HERE

And you'll see most are a lot, lot lower than that as MWO and in-game sensitivity is pretty whack.

I get that, and I know it wouldn't fly for a comp team. The OP did ask for 'the best of both worlds' though, since with limited mouse space he can't do the thing where you have super low DPI you compensate for with a mousepad the size of Nebraska and full-body mouse movements. In my admittedly low-end experience, trying to find a balance between precision and responsiveness is frustrating when you can't/won't do the whole-arm control thing. I've tried piloting 'Mechs with my 'sniper' DPI left on, i.e. dropping my DPI by half or more using the mouse's integrated controls, and it feels absolutely god-awful, sluggish and terrible.

[justcallme A S H]

As I said I don't even use half my mousepad... I can tell by the wear markings as well, it's just a convenient size for purchasing. So in effect it's probably the same size area he is working with.

Lower in game sense and upping actual mouse DPI will remove that sluggish feeling.

[Monkey Lover]

Hit the red button on the side . After about 100 games you do it without even thinking about it.