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Mwo, Battletech Ideas

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#1 Kronos 1

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 10:26 AM

Hey y'all

To preface been playing MechWarrior games as long as I had a computer to run them. This series is actually what inspired me to get into the game development world (just a hobbyist) and now I have a couple questions for other players and the developers of MWO.

I love how strong laser weapons are right now. Laser vomit has in my opinion never been more viable and I enjoy it, however there could be some adjustments made. Since additional armor options are being added, such as stealth, and light ferro-fibrous armor, would the addition of a reflective/mirrored armor be interesting? This armor could have a reasonable damage reduction for laser weapons, so certain pilots when deeming it necessary could counter aforementioned Laser vomit builds. It could be less resistant to ballistic weapons, making it a decent trade off and a little more balanced. I also would enjoy being able to have an array of selectable armor types being catered to each of my needs (anti laser, anti ballistic, etc.) and having each appendage/body part of my mech allowed to sport a different type of armor. This could add more flexibility to counter specific builds, add more depth to the mech lab and more analytical gameplay, especially in the competitive scene. Also, if one were able to add auxiliary armor to the exterior of your mech (like the corsair variant with a ton of extra metal welded onto it) that doesn't take up slots but adds extra tonnage to your mech could be cool for some front line brawlers. This armor could come with a KPH deficit until destroyed because of the extra tons it adds.

I'm not really sure if this is in line with any BattleTech lore, but could prove for some fun ways to spice up gameplay with subtlety.

Is this too complicated? Am I overthinking this? Let me know.

#2 MyriadDigits

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 12:59 PM

Reflective Armor (energy resist), Reactive Armor (explosive resist), Hardened Armor (50% reduction in all damage, but twice the weight and a mobility penalty), and Modular Armor (less efficient per ton but can be stacked with other armors past max, also has mobility penalty), are all things in the lore, but none of them hit anything resembling mass production until well further in the timeline than MWO is set.

#3 LordNothing

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 04:23 PM

timeline needs to move again. need another weapons pack. get us at least to the jihad era. but pgi found more mw5 things to do.

#4 GoodTry

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 05:15 PM

I think adding new tech is a no go at this point. They are just getting to the point of balancing the tech they have.

Here are some MWO user interface ideas that I think might be achievable:

- Smaller override warning (they already have the art, it shows up when you also have missiles incoming)
- Auto Refill checked by default for consumables
- Add a setting to turn override on by default
- Allow groups of any size to drop in the Solaris maps in private lobbies
- Add a setting to export all end-of-match stats to a .json file
- Add a setting for a louder radar dep beep
- Different color for jammed vs. destroyed weapons on weapon lists (orange for jammed, red for destroyed/out of ammo?)

#5 w0qj

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 06:26 PM

1. And please make the orange artillery warning smoke texture "hot" so that it shows up in Thermal & Night vision modes, which is just an xlsx edit. (Caustic Valley smoke texture is already "hot", demonstrating this can be done).

2. But seriously, is above list what you are suggesting MWO would be doing for all of 2022 ?

3. May I suggest this, which is achievable already within the existing MWO engine, given enough manpower/resources (OK, everything but the combat pet part anyways):


Let's dream big!

~MWO Timeline Expansion (the first one since the Civil War timeline expansion)

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!
New Mech chassis such as Stone Rhino!
IS gets advanced ATM, Lasers

Clan gets advanced MRM, RAC, and PPC! New mech chassis!
Angel ECM! Bloodhound Active Probe!

Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)!

Brand new maps!

Deepened Faction Play experience!

Love to dream big Posted Image

View PostGoodTry, on 08 September 2021 - 05:15 PM, said:

I think adding new tech is a no go at this point. They are just getting to the point of balancing the tech they have.

Here are some MWO user interface ideas that I think might be achievable:

- Smaller override warning (they already have the art, it shows up when you also have missiles incoming)
- Auto Refill checked by default for consumables
- Add a setting to turn override on by default
- Allow groups of any size to drop in the Solaris maps in private lobbies
- Add a setting to export all end-of-match stats to a .json file
- Add a setting for a louder radar dep beep
- Different color for jammed vs. destroyed weapons on weapon lists (orange for jammed, red for destroyed/out of ammo?)

Edited by w0qj, 09 September 2021 - 12:14 AM.


#6 justcallme A S H

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 06:32 PM

Things like reflective armour would require considerable dev time.

Right now I don't believe such time is available/an option.

While new tech would be good I think with Devs onboard things like NPE and other items need to come first. Especially while Cauldron Balance updates are still 4-8 months away from being fully realised/implemented plus ongoing tweaks and then if rescale happens somewhere in there it'll really alter things and it might then be 6-10 months more as that one is a major game changer.

And not to say new weapons or whatever is a bad idea... We just haven't got close to working through what we currently have.

#7 LordNothing

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 10:29 PM

View PostGoodTry, on 08 September 2021 - 05:15 PM, said:

I think adding new tech is a no go at this point. They are just getting to the point of balancing the tech they have.

Here are some MWO user interface ideas that I think might be achievable:

- Smaller override warning (they already have the art, it shows up when you also have missiles incoming)
- Auto Refill checked by default for consumables
- Add a setting to turn override on by default
- Allow groups of any size to drop in the Solaris maps in private lobbies
- Add a setting to export all end-of-match stats to a .json file
- Add a setting for a louder radar dep beep
- Different color for jammed vs. destroyed weapons on weapon lists (orange for jammed, red for destroyed/out of ammo?)


qol stuff is good, but if they havent done it by now...

i dont like the 'we cant balance what we got' argument though. i mean the cauldron has done wonders despite my skepticism. i think the problem with things like ew is due to lack of options, and that the options we have suck. there are no interesting tradeoffs. you can re-define the space there in ways you couldn't do with weapons. there is potential there to help resolve the tonnage crisis for example.

new non-offensive equipment could add a new dimension to the game without having to do things like retrofits that was a huge amount of work generated by the civil war patch. even just being able to swap things that are just currently locked components, like gyros and sensors.

ultimately you can balance the game all you want, if its not fun people are going to quit again. you have to address the staleness at some point. controversial map reduxes and variant packs can only go so far.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 September 2021 - 10:43 PM.


#8 pbiggz

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 05:11 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 08 September 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

Things like reflective armour would require considerable dev time.

Right now I don't believe such time is available/an option.

While new tech would be good I think with Devs onboard things like NPE and other items need to come first. Especially while Cauldron Balance updates are still 4-8 months away from being fully realised/implemented plus ongoing tweaks and then if rescale happens somewhere in there it'll really alter things and it might then be 6-10 months more as that one is a major game changer.

And not to say new weapons or whatever is a bad idea... We just haven't got close to working through what we currently have.


Any time we can get new toys, especially toys that aren't specifically weapons, it passively lowers average alphas, and adds a degree of decision making and cost-benefit analysis and build diversity the game doesn't yet have (note, the game actually has pretty good build diversity right now, but more toys would make it better).

Don't like laser meta? Reflective armour means the current generalist king isn't always going to be effective. Don't like getting Dakka'd? Reactive armour has the exact same impact.

And idk about you, but I for one, would like to build a standard engine, hardened armour, reinforced structure, unkillable chuckler giga atlas that can just walk through enemy teams.

Also I want to build a HAG summoner.

#9 LordNothing

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 11:28 AM

View Postpbiggz, on 09 September 2021 - 05:11 AM, said:


Any time we can get new toys, especially toys that aren't specifically weapons, it passively lowers average alphas, and adds a degree of decision making and cost-benefit analysis and build diversity the game doesn't yet have (note, the game actually has pretty good build diversity right now, but more toys would make it better).

Don't like laser meta? Reflective armour means the current generalist king isn't always going to be effective. Don't like getting Dakka'd? Reactive armour has the exact same impact.

And idk about you, but I for one, would like to build a standard engine, hardened armour, reinforced structure, unkillable chuckler giga atlas that can just walk through enemy teams.

Also I want to build a HAG summoner.


i dont think adding armor types is as hard as they would seem to indicate. some xml and some ui (really just adding options to the mech lab for the other armor types). its stuff pgi has demonstrated the capacity to do. cauldron says 4-8 months till they finish their work, but that seems similar to the timetables pgi has given us for features like this before. it could roll out a jihad pack in a year with new armor, new ew, and a small set of new weapons.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 September 2021 - 11:35 AM.


#10 pbiggz

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 12:07 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 09 September 2021 - 11:28 AM, said:


i dont think adding armor types is as hard as they would seem to indicate. some xml and some ui (really just adding options to the mech lab for the other armor types). its stuff pgi has demonstrated the capacity to do. cauldron says 4-8 months till they finish their work, but that seems similar to the timetables pgi has given us for features like this before. it could roll out a jihad pack in a year with new armor, new ew, and a small set of new weapons.


If it doesn't require dev time, we should do it. If it requires dev time, we should still do it.

Jihad era might have been crap storytelling but its a veritable goldmine of cool equipment and mechs and there's not really any good reason not to explore them.

PS: I suspect what's going on behind the scenes is MWO development is doing double duty. Anything that applies only to MWO gets minimal resources (francois being the only map guy and so on), anything that they can make for MW5 and MWO at the same time, namely, Mechs, will still get developed like before.

#11 ThreeStooges

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 12:59 PM

Data mine the forums the past six years mwo hasn't had development. You'll find some thing.

#12 1453 R

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 01:26 PM

Honestly? Modular armor could be a neat addition to the game, provided it could be modeled correctly. Would likely impose a penalty to all a 'Mech's various mobility stats, make it overall slower in order to bolt some extra armor onto the front. It'd be super cool, but ridiculously time-intensive and #notworth, to use the bolt-on system to actually display modular armor. Like Biggz said, anything you can spend weight/space on that isn't MOAR FIAHPOWAH directly lowers overall FIAHPOWAH, which can only be to the good.

Would most 'mechs bother with modular armor? Nah. But hey - sometimes you have a particularly valuable weapon or piece of equipment you want to protect as much as possible, and modular armor is another ~10 points of armor for that piece of kit.

Reflective/reactive armor would just be awesome to have. And yes, I know, TT canonical reactive armor only works against missiles and artillery shells. Don't care. There's already AMS to deal with missiles, having an armor subtype good against ballistics and an armor subtype good against lasers would round out defensive options. Still think the Blue Shield could be a neat, if niche, piece of kit. I mean, you really wanna see people shriek? Implement the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield. Hoo boy. People think stealth armor is bad...

#13 GuardDogg

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 01:33 PM

I feel it is time for graphic updates. To bad we couldn't edit graphics to more realism.

#14 1453 R

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 01:37 PM

The graphics are fine. Art/presentation is the one area Piranha's consistently held up in. BattleMechs look great, they move well (considering the subject/source), and while the modular weapon bolt-ons tend to look a little tacky, they get the job done well enough.

I can't imagine people would want a graphical overhaul over any of the dizzying myriad of gameplay issues that need addressing badly.

#15 FupDup

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 02:02 PM

View Post1453 R, on 09 September 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Honestly? Modular armor could be a neat addition to the game, provided it could be modeled correctly. Would likely impose a penalty to all a 'Mech's various mobility stats, make it overall slower in order to bolt some extra armor onto the front. It'd be super cool, but ridiculously time-intensive and #notworth, to use the bolt-on system to actually display modular armor. Like Biggz said, anything you can spend weight/space on that isn't MOAR FIAHPOWAH directly lowers overall FIAHPOWAH, which can only be to the good. Would most 'mechs bother with modular armor? Nah. But hey - sometimes you have a particularly valuable weapon or piece of equipment you want to protect as much as possible, and modular armor is another ~10 points of armor for that piece of kit.

Given that MWO has doubled armor values, I would expect modular armor to be doubled to 20. The ability to give yourself a +20 armor quirk on any hitbox you like would be a godsend for certain mechs.

I also think that it might not be that hard to code if we ignore the bolt-on visual element. Make a separate modular armor item for each body location (i.e. Modular Armor: CT, Modular Armor: LA, etc.) and each of them contains the appropriate quirks of +armor and -speed. I'm assuming that quirks can be attached to equipment items because that's sort of what BAP and TC's do. If not then it might be a bit harder...

As for the negaquirks I would make the value pretty low so that only one or two mod armors wouldn't hurt you too much but more than that would start to cost you (TT gave you the same penalty regardless of if you had 1 MA or 8).


Also I demand XL Gyro, Compact Gyro, and maybe Small Cockpit (the last one might be hard to balance but the gyros are self-explanatory). I don't think Heavy-Duty Gyro would have much point in MWO (in TT it was just resistant to crits).

Compact Gyro would let the Spider 5V carry an HPPC in the CT or double up on LLs. Still a derp mech, but slightly reduced derp.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2021 - 02:23 PM.


#16 GuardDogg

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 02:17 PM

Well, Tanks would be a awesome feature to pilot, or even the, Savannah Master for scouting.

#17 1453 R

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Posted 09 September 2021 - 02:32 PM

XL Gyro and Compact Gyro would be interesting additions, though it feels odd to do either given that gyro hits do nothing to your 'Mech. The main drawback of the XL gyro has always been the increased odds of losing mobility due to a gyro hit, but in MWO the gyro can be cleaned all the way out of your torso and the 'Mech don't care for spit. It'd basically be a free weight upgrade for the cost of two CT slots very few people use for anything but ammo or floating structure anyways.

The Compact Gyro honestly strikes me as a neater idea, kinda specifically because I really liked HBS' game opening up more space for junk in the CT. It felt better, smoother, and just more fun. Heh, imagine if the autocannon on a (classic) Marauder could actually be in the CT the way it's always pictured, instead of being art'd in the CT and then shunted to the RT for build rules reasons.

I'm pretty much always down for neat new non-weapon ideas, though. If someone could bludgeon Piranha into introducing new gyro variants? Golden. Go for it and let's see what happens.

#18 LordNothing

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 05:59 PM

View Post1453 R, on 09 September 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Honestly? Modular armor could be a neat addition to the game, provided it could be modeled correctly. Would likely impose a penalty to all a 'Mech's various mobility stats, make it overall slower in order to bolt some extra armor onto the front. It'd be super cool, but ridiculously time-intensive and #notworth, to use the bolt-on system to actually display modular armor. Like Biggz said, anything you can spend weight/space on that isn't MOAR FIAHPOWAH directly lowers overall FIAHPOWAH, which can only be to the good.

Would most 'mechs bother with modular armor? Nah. But hey - sometimes you have a particularly valuable weapon or piece of equipment you want to protect as much as possible, and modular armor is another ~10 points of armor for that piece of kit.

Reflective/reactive armor would just be awesome to have. And yes, I know, TT canonical reactive armor only works against missiles and artillery shells. Don't care. There's already AMS to deal with missiles, having an armor subtype good against ballistics and an armor subtype good against lasers would round out defensive options. Still think the Blue Shield could be a neat, if niche, piece of kit. I mean, you really wanna see people shriek? Implement the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield. Hoo boy. People think stealth armor is bad...


im totally for blue shield as well as reactive/reflective armor. id make the blue shield need to be placed in an ams slot, so you have to chose between blue shield or ams on mechs with a single ams slot. and it would cast a small bubble so you can help shield other mechs with it. the reactive/reflective armor would be its own tradeoff. but i think if you add counters to a set of weapons, you should also buff those weapons sort of like what was done with lrms in lieu of strong ams.

View Post1453 R, on 09 September 2021 - 02:32 PM, said:

XL Gyro and Compact Gyro would be interesting additions, though it feels odd to do either given that gyro hits do nothing to your 'Mech. The main drawback of the XL gyro has always been the increased odds of losing mobility due to a gyro hit, but in MWO the gyro can be cleaned all the way out of your torso and the 'Mech don't care for spit. It'd basically be a free weight upgrade for the cost of two CT slots very few people use for anything but ammo or floating structure anyways.

The Compact Gyro honestly strikes me as a neater idea, kinda specifically because I really liked HBS' game opening up more space for junk in the CT. It felt better, smoother, and just more fun. Heh, imagine if the autocannon on a (classic) Marauder could actually be in the CT the way it's always pictured, instead of being art'd in the CT and then shunted to the RT for build rules reasons.

I'm pretty much always down for neat new non-weapon ideas, though. If someone could bludgeon Piranha into introducing new gyro variants? Golden. Go for it and let's see what happens.


i figure the gyro would mostly affect screen shake much like the gyro nodes in the skill tree. different gyros would have different base numbers.

#19 Ekson Valdez

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Posted 12 September 2021 - 10:00 PM



This thread has been moved to Feature Suggestions.



#20 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 02:02 AM

Quote

[color=#959595]Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)![/color]



Ik for Mechlegs and Feets comes never back(feets and legs thats follows dynamic the Terrain) to big Problems with terrain and the Models /Collisionssystem and no Crew for technical problems like this (PGI lost all her Senior Engineers for the Engine) , so never little Pets comes like Tanks ,thats sinking and glitchs or hovers and flys by the terrain.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 15 September 2021 - 02:03 AM.






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