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No Spam In Chat, Recent Controversy Opinion


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#21 LordNothing

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:21 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:


who is they

be specific

what demands do you think "they" are making that are unreasonable


if you follow the quotes back, they is "the extreme left" and the "lgbtq whatever movement". context is important.

#22 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:25 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 05:21 PM, said:


if you follow the quotes back, they is "the extreme left" and the "lgbtq whatever movement". context is important.


cool that's one question answered

what demands do you think "they" are making of pgi that are unreasonable

#23 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:31 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 05:10 PM, said:

if equality is the end goal, then everyone has skin in the game. sometimes i don't think equality is what they are after.


We are in a society, we stand on each other's shoulders, the well being of others aside our own is also in our best interest, so it's safe to say that everyone has skin in the game. It's politics, it's a matter of policy of the society.

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

what demands do you think "they" are making that are unreasonable


For example, the "anti-trans" bill that takes them out of women's sports. While they would just say that it's mere human rights, this doesn't change the fact that they as participants also affect cis women in those competitions, are cis women not worthy of consideration too?

It's not really that unreasonable considering that we as human beings have biological differences between sexes. And transwomen, do have as much as 9% physical advantage after HRT:

Spoiler


Biology is important, it's a major factor. That is why the successful basketball players are tall, soldiers are typically men that does the brunt work. You think everyone could have 210 IQ? No these are freaks of nature.

The reality is that, in the end, these competitions has the duty to be fair first, than to validate people by their identity. Their legitimacy would be less in question if the factors are more consistent than just a matter of identification.

And to paint that as mere human-right, that shouldn't be questioned, as "anti-trans bills" isn't helpful. Being sad or angry about something does not make it right.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2021 - 05:35 PM.


#24 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:34 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 05:31 PM, said:


For example, the "anti-trans" bill that takes them out of women's sports


sorry, this isn't a politics forum. have you considered facebook? i hear that's back up, and it's where people usually post links to articles they didn't read or understand

#25 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:36 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

sorry, this isn't a politics forum. have you considered facebook? i hear that's back up, and it's where people usually post links to articles they didn't read or understand


So we agree. Lets all shut up about everything but mechwarrior and battletech.

Good talk.

#26 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:39 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 05:36 PM, said:


So we agree. Lets all shut up about everything but mechwarrior and battletech


no, this just isn't the place to post misinformed rants about unrelated sports. have you instead considered posting them somewhere more appropriate, like nowhere?

#27 MyriadDigits

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:40 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 05:21 PM, said:


if you follow the quotes back, they is "the extreme left" and the "lgbtq whatever movement". context is important.


LGBTQ+ people just want to be able to live without being shunned, harassed, attacked, or even criminalized for merely existing.

Transgender people in particular just want to be able to live their life as the gender they identify as, which just happens to be different from the sex they were born as.

I struggle to see how any of that is asking for more than equality.

#28 pattonesque

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM

View PostMyriadDigits, on 04 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

I struggle to see how any of that is asking for more than equality.


Eagerly awaiting this answer!

#29 1453 R

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 05:36 PM, said:


So we agree. Lets all shut up about everything but mechwarrior and battletech.

Good talk.


Okay.

No.

This is exactly why LGBTQ+ folks speak out. Because of posts like this, that demand we all just shut up and never speak our minds or speak out against intolerance or dismissal. Against people saying "You don't matter, just stop trying to convince the rest of us you matter." I was trying to be good, especially since this thread is going to be struck down in nuclear fire, but no.

Just. F@#$ing. No.

YOU LOT started this nonsense. YOU LOT started kvetching about how it wasn't fair that Trans Rights/Trans Fights got to keep their names. We were content to just play MWO, but then you all decided to raise a stink about how uncool it was for people to have political opinions in their online game.

This is your fault. Not ours. Don't you bloody dare tell us to shut up after you picked this friggin' fight in the first place, good sir.

#30 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:53 PM

View PostEscef, on 04 October 2021 - 04:33 PM, said:

Really? Because McNug certainly implied it. If McNug has an issue, let 'em clarify on their own.


Typical straw man argument taking anothers words and twisting them. No, He implied nothing of the sort. I support the rights of all human beings, but just for that, I will go to the polls and vote against the next "trans rights" bill that comes up. Know why? I'm the silent majority that really doesen't much care about anything past his front yard until you annoy me. After that bill, I'll see who annoys me next, maybe i'll vote YES on the next trans rights bill if i'm just left alone and not irritated. I was trying to be civilized about this topic and limit it to just spam in the chat but people like you have to take it to the next level. Ok, fine, you lost one vote. I'll see how I feel when the vote for the following "trans rights" bill or prop comes up, don't annoy me again, and I'll vote yes because I do genuinely all people deserve human rights and freedoms to do as you wish! I am the silent majority, selfish and uncarring about your plight, but willing to cast a vote to help you IF and ONLY IF you don't make me mad or irritate me. And here's the rub... I'm not alone. It's the way most of us who don't post regularly or participate in social media think, I've just had enough of the dam spam for crap i'm already willing to support. Well you know what, I am annoyed, I will now turn a blind eye, as will many who read this post and will quietly cast their "NO" vote in the next round leaving all of you to wonder "Oh god, why didn't that prop or bill pass". Well, now you know why. Your right, I've got no skin in the game, so it's YOUR job to make me care! Spamming it on pub chat in the middle of a game when i'm trying to relax and escape and annoying us is only making me care less.



View Postpattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 04:59 PM, said:

Baldwin raises an interesting question there. I wonder if anyone here has a sufficient answer.


If you look at history and other instances of this sort of thing, should be between 10 to 20 years. Could be sooner if the silent majority is eased into as is happening now and no one upsets us (us being those who have no stake in the game). It's usually when the side who is suffering comes out with logical arguments over a period of time and the extremism starts to die down. People hate being told what to do or what to think, they need to think it was their own morals and ideas that prompted them to support one side or the other. THAT's what takes time

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 05:03 PM, said:

yes


Ok, then is it ok for me to spam "constitutional carry for all!" in the chat? I'm passionate about that! I want to fight for that! I feel oppressed when I don't have that! I picked that btw because I live in Texas and we already have that now and since its Texas it's never going away even if the state needs to leave the U.S and become its own country. But my point still stands... Is that ok for me to do?

#31 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:54 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 04:46 PM, said:





Real progress comes in changing the hearts and the minds. Utopia cannot precede the utopian. (Yes, that's Bioshock 2)

There is something in psychology called Reactance, this is literally why reverse--psychology works. The more people are told what they can't do, or can do, the more people would want to do it. Hell, if you told people not to look at photos, they will certainly look up photos -- this is Streisand Effect.

If you change society's policies, when they still don't agree with those, then there's just discord.

View Post1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

This is exactly why LGBTQ+ folks speak out. Because of posts like this, that demand we all just shut up and never speak our minds or speak out against intolerance or dismissal.


No one here saying that these pet causes doesn't matter, or trans people don't matter, or you're wrong.

It's just not the right place.

#32 Papaspud

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 05:57 PM

View Post1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Okay.

No.

This is exactly why LGBTQ+ folks speak out. Because of posts like this, that demand we all just shut up and never speak our minds or speak out against intolerance or dismissal. Against people saying "You don't matter, just stop trying to convince the rest of us you matter." I was trying to be good, especially since this thread is going to be struck down in nuclear fire, but no.

Just. F@#$ing. No.

YOU LOT started this nonsense. YOU LOT started kvetching about how it wasn't fair that Trans Rights/Trans Fights got to keep their names. We were content to just play MWO, but then you all decided to raise a stink about how uncool it was for people to have political opinions in their online game.

This is your fault. Not ours. Don't you bloody dare tell us to shut up after you picked this friggin' fight in the first place, good sir.


This argument is very persuasive, I'm sure you swayed opinions. You're anger is showing a bit, and many people would really appreciate you display it somewhere else, many more appropriate places than during games....just a thought.

#33 1453 R

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:05 PM

View PostPapaspud, on 04 October 2021 - 05:57 PM, said:


This argument is very persuasive, I'm sure you swayed opinions. You're anger is showing a bit, and many people would really appreciate you display it somewhere else, many more appropriate places than during games....just a thought.


Do you see me spamming up games?

No.

No, you do not.

You see me speaking my mind here, where a bunch of people who claim to Support Trans Rights™ have proven they do no such thing. That they want nothing more than for us to remain silent so they can keep pretending we don't exist.

Spoilers: we f@#$ing exist

"Ten to twenty years"? It's been far longer than that already. Trans people have been ridiculed, scorned, ostracized, and actively killed for a whole lot longer than "ten or twenty years".

Is this the place for this discussion? No. But again - we didn't start it. You did. I'm just speaking my mind, the same way any cisgender person is allowed to. You want to claim to Support Trans Rights™? Then YOU "keep silent", ne?

#34 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:14 PM

View Post1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Okay.

No.

This is exactly why LGBTQ+ folks speak out. Because of posts like this, that demand we all just shut up and never speak our minds or speak out against intolerance or dismissal. Against people saying "You don't matter, just stop trying to convince the rest of us you matter." I was trying to be good, especially since this thread is going to be struck down in nuclear fire, but no.

Just. F@#$ing. No.

YOU LOT started this nonsense. YOU LOT started kvetching about how it wasn't fair that Trans Rights/Trans Fights got to keep their names. We were content to just play MWO, but then you all decided to raise a stink about how uncool it was for people to have political opinions in their online game.

This is your fault. Not ours. Don't you bloody dare tell us to shut up after you picked this friggin' fight in the first place, good sir.


NO Let's be clear. I STARTED THIS THREAD, ME, IN RESPONSE TO WHAT I FELT WAS PGI CAVING OUT OF FEAR OF THE SWJ AND PC FRAT BOYS FROM SOUTH PARK. It wasn't the community telling you to be quiet, it was ME telling you to stop spamming US ALL and the community agreed. Don't take it out on them.

We ALL just want to play the dam game, We have such a great inclusive community here and the actions of people like YOU make it less so. I don't want this place to turn into Call Of Duty! All we are say is this:

"We support your rights. Talk about it somewhere else OR say it once if you must even once per game if you must. We ALL agree that PGI did right by letting the teams keep their names after realizing they were not just trolling. JUST STOP SPAMING OUR CHATS or YOU SHOULD BE SUSPENED"

Heck, I even think the naming of the teams was a good idea to bring attention to your causes, that's a positive way to do it. But spamming and going on the attack is a weak and ineffective way to influence others and has just made me aware that your cause is not mature enough yet for my support at this point

None of us care who's in the Mech next to us, we just want to play the game. Now if you have something insulting or inflamatory to say, say it to ME becuse I'M the one who started this thread. But before you spend the next hour typing away at your keyboard, you should know, I'm going to ignore you from here on out anyway because now I really believe you're just trolling :/

#35 LordNothing

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:18 PM

View PostMyriadDigits, on 04 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

LGBTQ+ people just want to be able to live without being shunned, harassed, attacked, or even criminalized for merely existing.

Transgender people in particular just want to be able to live their life as the gender they identify as, which just happens to be different from the sex they were born as.

I struggle to see how any of that is asking for more than equality.


ive already stated that i am pro-freedom. but freedom is a double edged sword. if you start telling people what they can and cannot do with it, you can undermine the whole thing. when you start actively interfering in the lives of people who have done nothing to you (others may have, but you shouldn't take that out on every perceived threat), by flooding the in game chat for example, or getting certain likable members of the community banned through organized spamming to the support staff. that kind of thing sounds a lot like being attacked, and harrased, and bans, that sounds like criminalization. and im already being shunned by your ilk (not gay or trans people mind you, but by the political movement around it).

If you're going to fight evil, be careful you don't become the very evil you're fighting.



for the record i myself have and have supported gay family members, and i myself am bi. i have trans friends. ranging from moderate left to moderate right. none of us want to play the identity politics game.

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 05:25 PM, said:

cool that's one question answered

what demands do you think "they" are making of pgi that are unreasonable


im not the one that made the claim that they are making demands of pgi. all i have done is:

state my views on the matter.

rebuttal to pattonesque's quote, more stating my own views.

you respond asking for clarification about who "they" are.

i clarify.

that is the limit of my involvement in the thread.

(and the above too, sorry im getting spammed and answering them out of order and the forum software merged them in a weird way).

Edited by LordNothing, 04 October 2021 - 06:25 PM.


#36 Wildstreak

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:24 PM

If this keeps up, it will shut down MWO faster than anything else.

Politics and games do not go together in this manner.

If you want politics and games, go play Suzerain. Darn good game showing how to do it right, very educational. I got stuck on one thing because there were not enough options to choose from though I may have to push past it. Torpot Games and Fellow Traveller should do a sequel with more options for one thing but still a darn good political game. Not like those other foolish political games.

#37 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 06:14 PM, said:

I STARTED THIS THREAD, ME, IN RESPONSE TO WHAT I FELT WAS PGI CAVING OUT OF FEAR OF THE SWJ AND PC FRAT BOYS FROM SOUTH PARK.


lmao that you're worried that PGI is caving to some random nonsense that you heard about in a cartoon

Edited by Kaio-Kerensky x10, 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM.


#38 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM

View Post1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 06:05 PM, said:

Spoilers: we f@#$ing exist


And no one here is saying you don't. What we are saying is that we don't f@#$ing care, this is not the right place.

There is nothing we can do for your situation, we all have different countries, I'm not even ******* American. Do you think I enjoy hearing about the cheeto bussinessman or the narcoleptic pedo-president? Or the pro 2nd-amendement rants? I'd silence those too!

It's just inviting discord because politics, is inherently divisive. The battle there is to win hearts and minds, and you don't do that without having heated arguments along the way.


Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2021 - 10:24 PM.


#39 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:27 PM

i get all of my opinions from charles in charge and garfield

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM, said:


And no one here is saying you don't. What we are saying is that we don't f@#$ing care


wow you sound like a really unpleasant person

#40 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:29 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:


ive already stated that i am pro-freedom. but freedom is a double edged sword. if you start telling people what they can and cannot do with it, you can undermine the whole thing. when you start actively interfering in the lives of people who have done nothing to you, by flooding the in game chat for example, or getting certain likable members of the community banned through organized spamming to the support staff. that kind of thing sounds a lot like being attacked, and harrased, and bans, that sounds like criminalization. and im already being shunned by your ilk (not gay or trans people mind you, but by the political movement around it).

If you're going to fight evil, be careful you don't become the very evil you're fighting.



for the record i myself have and have supported gay family members, and i myself am bi. i have trans friends. ranging from moderate left to moderate right. none of us want to play the identity politics game.



im not the one that made the claim that they are making demands of pgi. all i have done is:

state my views on the matter.

rebuttal to pattonesque's quote, more stating my own views.

you respond asking for clarification about who "they" are.

i clarify.

that is the limit of my involvement in the thread.



THIS!!! THIS is logical, This is well spoken. This can influence my thinking! Learn from this man. The worst part is many people in the movement refer to people like this as "confused" and ostracize them from their own movement! This is why I said 10 to 20 years from NOW because not even the movement being cowed to here is inclusive itself. Those who don't know what i'm talking about, don't worry, but LordNothing knows what i'm saying. This is why I said also that the movement isn't mature enough to support yet. In 10 to 20 years, this batch of activists will grow up and see how change is really made, and it starts in your own back yard.

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM, said:


lmao that you're worried that PGI is caving to some random nonsense that you heard about in a cartoon


LOL, I'm glad someone got the joke! :D





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