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No Spam In Chat, Recent Controversy Opinion


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#41 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:33 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 06:27 PM, said:

wow you sound like a really unpleasant person


That's just your text-to-speech program unable to properly process reason and brutal honesty.

#42 LordNothing

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:34 PM

View Post1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

Okay.

No.

This is exactly why LGBTQ+ folks speak out. Because of posts like this, that demand we all just shut up and never speak our minds or speak out against intolerance or dismissal. Against people saying "You don't matter, just stop trying to convince the rest of us you matter." I was trying to be good, especially since this thread is going to be struck down in nuclear fire, but no.

Just. F@#$ing. No.

YOU LOT started this nonsense. YOU LOT started kvetching about how it wasn't fair that Trans Rights/Trans Fights got to keep their names. We were content to just play MWO, but then you all decided to raise a stink about how uncool it was for people to have political opinions in their online game.

This is your fault. Not ours. Don't you bloody dare tell us to shut up after you picked this friggin' fight in the first place, good sir.


i think there are better forums for that than an online game. i have a similar problem with people using the game to promote religion, its just not the place for that kind of thing. you can keep your names and your unit tags, but i have to draw the line at spamming propaganda. people come here to shoot robots, let them shoot robots.

#43 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:35 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 06:34 PM, said:


i think there are better forums for that than an online game. i have a similar problem with people using the game to promote religion, its just not the place for that kind of thing. you can keep your names and your unit tags, but i have to draw the line at spamming propaganda. people come here to shoot robots, let them shoot robots.


then why are you posting about politics on the forums

#44 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:39 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 06:34 PM, said:


i think there are better forums for that than an online game. i have a similar problem with people using the game to promote religion, its just not the place for that kind of thing. you can keep your names and your unit tags, but i have to draw the line at spamming propaganda. people come here to shoot robots, let them shoot robots.


This is a good way of saying what i'm trying to say here also in a nutshell and it's what I think most of us agree with. I'm kind of a *****, so it's tough for me to state things a manor such as this. Thanks for summing it up in a civilized manor LordNothing

#45 FinnMcKool

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:42 PM



#46 LordNothing

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:44 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

then why are you posting about politics on the forums


oddly enough, to talk about robots. this thread was just in the way.

#47 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:47 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

I'm kind of a *****


i'm glad you summarized your arguments in this thread so well

View PostLordNothing, on 04 October 2021 - 06:44 PM, said:


oddly enough, to talk about robots. this thread was just in the way.


go ahead, talk about robots. nobody's stopping you

#48 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:47 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 06:35 PM, said:

then why are you posting about politics on the forums


He's not, I am. He's responding to my post, and we are posting so our voices are heard as well. Did you know this issue made the news? That's when I realized that someone had to say "this is wrong" somewhere. And it matters to our community if we want to keep the player count and the support for the game we love high. We have to keep this community from becoming COD:MW. I don't want to see another mass exodus because people are annoyed by other players IN GAME or new players put off from trying the game because people are spamming the chat with rhetoric. The casuals don't come to the forums and I need targets!!!! Like a drug, I need more TARGETS. This became an issue when the news outlets picked it up and I don't want to see this happen again. No religion, no politics, etc, at least not in game. Call targets and talk mechs!!!

#49 Commoners

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:48 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 05:53 PM, said:

Typical straw man argument taking anothers words and twisting them. No, He implied nothing of the sort. I support the rights of all human beings, but just for that, I will go to the polls and vote against the next "trans rights" bill that comes up. Know why? I'm the silent majority that really doesen't much care about anything past his front yard until you annoy me. After that bill, I'll see who annoys me next, maybe i'll vote YES on the next trans rights bill if i'm just left alone and not irritated. I was trying to be civilized about this topic and limit it to just spam in the chat but people like you have to take it to the next level. Ok, fine, you lost one vote. I'll see how I feel when the vote for the following "trans rights" bill or prop comes up, don't annoy me again, and I'll vote yes because I do genuinely all people deserve human rights and freedoms to do as you wish! I am the silent majority, selfish and uncarring about your plight, but willing to cast a vote to help you IF and ONLY IF you don't make me mad or irritate me. And here's the rub... I'm not alone. It's the way most of us who don't post regularly or participate in social media think, I've just had enough of the dam spam for crap i'm already willing to support. Well you know what, I am annoyed, I will now turn a blind eye, as will many who read this post and will quietly cast their "NO" vote in the next round leaving all of you to wonder "Oh god, why didn't that prop or bill pass". Well, now you know why. Your right, I've got no skin in the game, so it's YOUR job to make me care! Spamming it on pub chat in the middle of a game when i'm trying to relax and escape and annoying us is only making me care less.


Telling people that their social compliance and silence are the requisite for you to support their rights in a system where laws are being enacted that make their existence and participation in society at the state level automatically noncompliant is an awful catch-22 to throw people in.

I personally don't compromise my own values on the inherent rights of humans just because I want to spite someone because they annoyed me, whether it be IRL or on an internet stompy robot game.

#50 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:52 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 06:47 PM, said:

We have to keep this community from becoming COD:MW.


do you find a lot of COD players are saying "trans rights"

#51 Commoners

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 06:54 PM

I guess I'll also throw out that I never even considered posting about people's rights or painting my mechs in various pride flag colors or even had a moment where I thought it would be an idea to talk about any sorts of rights in allchat until I saw one person that has posted in this thread straight up throwing the trans slur out in allchat yesterday. I'm willing to assume it was ignorance of the word's pejorative nature instead of maliciousness, but...

If we're talking about polarization, this is the first public forum where I've written probably more than a sentence actively declaring intent to participate in the discussion of lgbtq rights. My participation in games and discussions of it is usually telling some xbox kid to not scream slurs in public forums, but I didn't expect to have to have that kind of discussion with the 35+ year old demographic that is a large amount of mechwarrior's population. Usually it's chill mechdads who have a beer in one hand and their HOTAS in the other, and when someone says something that doesn't have to do with the game they start talking about their kids and the BBQ they're going to have over the weekend with the other mechdads.

It's really ******* weird that the response by some people, especially when it's the some of those same old dudes that I used to see as the chill mechdads who are able to shrug stuff off like teflon, to the trans rights and trans fights teams getting their names yoinked was stuff to the effect of "lmao those (slurs) got their comeuppance," and then their response to the decision being rolled back is white hot rage about censorship and freedoms and SJWs taking away our video game or whatever.

Edited by Commoners, 04 October 2021 - 07:03 PM.


#52 FinnMcKool

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:00 PM

I'm sorry but this whole thread is just a big "divide and Conquer" whatever you are left or right We all play this game , we all are MechWarrior's at least we like to play that.

don't divide don't hate don't look down on or try to hurt anyone here , whether you like it or not we all have this in common.

personally I think its the super rich , the "Aristocracy" that keeps us all down , they love to see their pets fight and hurt each other

if you talk to those people you disagree with , Really talk to them in real live you may find you like them.

so anyway this thread should have been taken down when it first went up.

#53 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:01 PM

View PostCommoners, on 04 October 2021 - 06:48 PM, said:


Telling people that their social compliance and silence are the requisite for you to support their rights in a system where laws are being enacted that make their existence and participation in society at the state level automatically noncompliant is an awful catch-22 to throw people in.

I personally don't compromise my own values on the inherent rights of humans just because I want to spite someone because they annoyed me, whether it be IRL or on an internet stompy robot game.


I commend you on your commitment to your values.

But

Sorry to say it, that's just how I am. That's how alot of us are. That's why the silent majority is silent so they don't get attacked for being that way. Me, I don't have the "shame" gene. I just wasn't born with it. If a group wants my support don't antagonize me, and I KNOW i'm not alone in my thinking. I don't clam to be a nice guy or pretend I want people to like me. But I am always honest and one always knows where they stand with me, that's the best I care to do. And if i'm unliked , well, then whatever, I have no use for that person in my life. The people who remain however have value to me and I have value to them. It's a lifestyle choice that doesn't oppress my true self.

Come to think about it, isn't that what this whole thing is about, being able to make lifestyle choices that don't oppress ones true self?

#54 Kaio-Kerensky x10

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:05 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 07:01 PM, said:


Sorry to say it, that's just how I am. That's how alot of us are. That's why the silent majority is silent so they don't get attacked for being that way. Me, I don't have the "shame" gene. I just wasn't born with it. If a group wants my support don't antagonize me, and I KNOW i'm not alone in my thinking. I don't clam to be a nice guy or pretend I want people to like me.


thanks for the post, travis bickle

how do you post "i'm kind of a *****" and "i don't clam to be a nice guy" and not introspect at all about the fact that you're bragging about being so unpleasant that you can't even deny it

#55 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:06 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 06:52 PM, said:

do you find a lot of COD players are saying "trans rights"


No, what happens when someone says something like that is they are bombarded with derogatory comments, racists and homophobic insults and call the N word over and over again. Here's the problem, where there is crap, flys will soon follow. I know people who play COD just to be able to scream racist remarks over the coms. I don't want those people here, and neither do you. Stuff like this is just bait for those crowds. :/

#56 1453 R

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:08 PM

Okay. Now that I've calmed down a bit from being actively told to shut up, allow me to explain something.

There's a pervasive issue with trans rights, and with rights for most any other minority group, that I've come to think of as the 'Over There' problem. In short: certain folks claim to "Support Trans Rights"...so long as they don't have to acknowledge trans rights. So long as trans people exercise their rights privately, in their own homes, where decent right-minded cis folk don't have to see it, hear it, look at it, put up with it, or acknowledge it in any form. If a man and his husband hold hands in public? That's not okay. That's not right. That's a bunch of gay folk trying to "force their values on people", or Aggressively Pushing Their Agenda, or something else. Someone wears a Pride shirt? Same thing. A man wears his hair long, or does his nails, because it's the closest she can come to letting herself out in the world? Same thing.

These folks will protest vehemently that they're not [X]ist or Against Rights. Not at all! They just don't see why trans people (or whichever other group of people is getting Over There'd) can't just exercise their rights they totally deserve to have...over there, somewhere.

It's negative-space ostracization, and every bit as harmful as the fiery, overt bigots. Honestly? They're significantly more dangerous and harmful, because they like to sound just ever so reasonable on the surface whilst taking gleeful pride in teaching LGBTQ folk to be ashamed of themselves and that they can only be themselves in secrecy. They can't share their lives with people the way other folks can because their lives are just shameful, and nobody judges...so long as they lead their shameful lives Over There.

Which is exactly what's going on in this thread. Sadly.

#57 Commoners

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:08 PM

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 07:01 PM, said:


I commend you on your commitment to your values.

But

Sorry to say it, that's just how I am. That's how alot of us are. That's why the silent majority is silent so they don't get attacked for being that way. Me, I don't have the "shame" gene. I just wasn't born with it. If a group wants my support don't antagonize me, and I KNOW i'm not alone in my thinking. I don't clam to be a nice guy or pretend I want people to like me. But I am always honest and one always knows where they stand with me, that's the best I care to do. And if i'm unliked , well, then whatever, I have no use for that person in my life. The people who remain however have value to me and I have value to them. It's a lifestyle choice that doesn't oppress my true self.

Come to think about it, isn't that what this whole thing is about, being able to make lifestyle choices that don't oppress ones true self?


There's nothing wrong with taking the easiest, most comfortable route in life instead of confronting injustices to others that have no effect on you, and I'm not forcing you to change that lifestyle decision that you've already made, so there's no reason to infer that I'm somehow oppressing you by supporting the equal rights of others. I don't see why you should be ashamed of it and you already said you aren't, so it's not a problem. For you.

View PostDanichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 07:06 PM, said:


No, what happens when someone says something like that is they are bombarded with derogatory comments, racists and homophobic insults and call the N word over and over again. Here's the problem, where there is crap, flys will soon follow. I know people who play COD just to be able to scream racist remarks over the coms. I don't want those people here, and neither do you. Stuff like this is just bait for those crowds. :/


I said it in my first post in the announcement thread, I think. People like that love unmoderated spaces. I think one of the questions this thread should ask is if we are actually even being moderated or curated as a community with what we currently have, regardless of the terms of service that are already in place.

The current ToS seems pretty watertight. If you go into a match saying something that really, in its nature, isn't controversial then is it really an issue? If someone started every match with something weird like "I support equal rights for all" that would be really, really weird but would that person even be causing a controversy? Does anyone want to play the devil's advocate against the guy saying that he supports equal rights for all? We would need a true strawman-given-life (that holy **** sometimes does come crawling out of the woodwork) to suddenly respond to that by saying that some people deserve more rights than others.

Talking about gun laws, the governmental autonomy of various places in the world, tax law, presidential elections, etc. etc. in allchat definitely have enough sides and nuances to be controversial though.

So what comes to mind for me isn't a question of policy, but instead a question of who is responsible for enforcing that policy. It brings up questions about this current moderation incident, the incident with Veigle, and a little further back with Chaos Harmony. Were those community curations that met with the spirit and the writing of the ToS, or were they kind of arbitrary, confusing, and outraging to the community by how unexpectedly harsh, undiscussed, and out of the left field they were?

Edited by Commoners, 04 October 2021 - 07:22 PM.


#58 CherokeeRose

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:08 PM

View PostEscef, on 04 October 2021 - 03:53 PM, said:

Wasn't aware human rights were a left/right thing... Oh, wait, they've become that way because one side wants to make sure certain people have no rights.

I'd just be happy if people would quit pushing their political views on other people. That goes both ways, I come here to play games, not argue Corona Virus, Trump, Pedophilia, Terrorism, or any of a million other things POLITICAL.

If I was spamming "fornicators go to hell" or "Vote Trump 2024" I would expect to catch a warning, same with spamming "LBGYQ rights" during a comp game.

#59 Danichi Itobar

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:16 PM

View PostKaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:


thanks for the post, travis bickle

how do you post "i'm kind of a *****" and "i don't clam to be a nice guy" and not introspect at all about the fact that you're bragging about being so unpleasant that you can't even deny it



Honesty isn't always pretty, but it's honest. Truth stands on its own. Should I lie and pretend that I care what others think of me? Would that be a better path? There's a diffrence between bragging and just stating a fact.

And I never said I was unpleasent. At least I don't think I did. I don't beleave im unpleasent Just honest. That's often taken as me being a **** so I simply accept the assessment, not bragging just not ashamed of who I am. Like I said, those who chose to be around me stay for a reason and those who leave do as well, I have no issue with either of those two things

Again, a person not being ashamed of who they are... hummm... does that sound familiar?

#60 FinnMcKool

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Posted 04 October 2021 - 07:24 PM

Im going to break it to you guys :

Utopia is only for the Aristocracy , the super rich , the big business, big tech, big media

There is NO JUSTICE for the
lower middle class THERE IS NO JUSTICE only what you do.

The best we can have is to treat each other like we want to be treated,

I think a lot of people want a war, well we will all lose that one. forget it
if you cant play a game and respect the other players , no one wins

Edited by FinnMcKool, 04 October 2021 - 07:25 PM.






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