182 replies to this topic

[Danichi Itobar]

1453 R, on 04 October 2021 - 07:08 PM, said:

Okay. Now that I've calmed down a bit from being actively told to shut up, allow me to explain something.

There's a pervasive issue with trans rights, and with rights for most any other minority group, that I've come to think of as the 'Over There' problem. In short: certain folks claim to "Support Trans Rights"...so long as they don't have to acknowledge trans rights. So long as trans people exercise their rights privately, in their own homes, where decent right-minded cis folk don't have to see it, hear it, look at it, put up with it, or acknowledge it in any form. If a man and his husband hold hands in public? That's not okay. That's not right. That's a bunch of gay folk trying to "force their values on people", or Aggressively Pushing Their Agenda, or something else. Someone wears a Pride shirt? Same thing. A man wears his hair long, or does his nails, because it's the closest she can come to letting herself out in the world? Same thing.

These folks will protest vehemently that they're not [X]ist or Against Rights. Not at all! They just don't see why trans people (or whichever other group of people is getting Over There'd) can't just exercise their rights they totally deserve to have...over there, somewhere.

It's negative-space ostracization, and every bit as harmful as the fiery, overt bigots. Honestly? They're significantly more dangerous and harmful, because they like to sound just ever so reasonable on the surface whilst taking gleeful pride in teaching LGBTQ folk to be ashamed of themselves and that they can only be themselves in secrecy. They can't share their lives with people the way other folks can because their lives are just shameful, and nobody judges...so long as they lead their shameful lives Over There.

Which is exactly what's going on in this thread. Sadly.

See now that is a logical statement of a perspective and that is more of what your movement needs! You've stated the issue for those who don't know. Now I can consider that issue with being antagonized.

All were saying is not in game. If you want to post in the forum, I personaly don't have issue with that. And this issue isn't actualy what you or the person spamming is standing for, it's the place. Would you like me to spam pro choice or pro gun propaganda in game? Or talk about religion on the open channel? Spam of any kind is spam and should not be allowed. No one is against you or your movement just that annoying people isn't going to help?

Your last post was neither inflamitory, it was in context of this thread and was a logical statement of your situation. If you want support for your movement, keep making statements like that in the appropriate place. At the moment, this has been the appropriate place until this thread is shut down lol.

And like i said. 10 to 20 years for full normalization. Its going to take this younger generation who has been exposed to gay couples in the media that long to grow up and be old enough to affect change for it to be widely accepted. Maybe sooner, but when it does happen, most people won't even notice. And thats what you want isn't it? For us to not notice a gay couple holding hands? Just to accept it as part of everyday life? Correct me if im wrong, but thats the goal here, no sarcasim.


Oh, BTW, I have long hair, do my nails in black and wear eyeliner when I go out and i'm a straight man. But I also listen to Sisters of Mercy, The Cure etc...so you know what scene i'm in and the movment exsits there without prejudice

Edited by Danichi Itobar, 04 October 2021 - 07:33 PM.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

CherokeeRose, on 04 October 2021 - 07:08 PM, said:

If I was spamming "fornicators go to hell" or "Vote Trump 2024" I would expect to catch a warning, same with spamming "LBGYQ rights" during a comp game.

the fact that you don't see a difference between those two is a you problem. you should work on that

[Danichi Itobar]

Kaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 07:31 PM, said:

the fact that you don't see a difference between those two is a you problem. you should work on that

The diffrence is perspective. That's kind of the point. If you allow one spam, you have to allow all spam Then things become a mess. You can just say that one group can do it and another can't. So you have to say NO ONE can do it to keep things fair.

The issue is ANYTHING potentaly polarizing is bad for the game. I want to like all the players I play with regardless of , well anything, because we all have a common interest, we ALL LOVE MECHWARRIOR or we wouldn't be here playing whats actualy a pretty obscure game online. It's that common interest that binds us all here but when we get this sort of thing it detracts from that. I don't think anyone whats that :/

[The6thMessenger]

Kaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 07:31 PM, said:

the fact that you don't see a difference between those two is a you problem. you should work on that

But that is the thing, they are effectively the same. They sow discord.

People have different beliefs, some hold them uncritically and unquestionably, that they are sacred, and because it becomes personal when questioned, it seems to be an attack, and it just causes more discord.

[ScrapIron Prime]

There are only two kinds of folks in this world… red team and blue team. And when you think about it… we’re all on the blue team.

Seriously though… please dial it back on the forum here. Yes, I too have very strong opinions, and I will and do take action for the rights of people I know, complete strangers, people I would hang out with and people I wouldn’t. Because I’d want them to do the same for me, to defend a right, an opinion or a lifestyle that they may not even like. Everyone deserves a seat at the table, because despite our multitude of differences… we are all the same. And it’s about dang time we treat everyone as such.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 04 October 2021 - 08:25 PM.

[martian]

Danichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

...
the TOS needs to include spamming of non gameplay related messages as a bannable offence with warnings and suspensions prior to the ban.

PGI can hardly punish the players for following the recent PGI's example.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 07:45 PM, said:

But that is the thing, they are effectively the same. They sow discord.

if you can't figure out the difference between people who wanna live and people who want to make life **** for someone else just trying to get by, that's a you problem

Danichi Itobar, on 04 October 2021 - 07:43 PM, said:

The diffrence is perspective. That's kind of the point. If you allow one spam, you have to allow all spam

lol no you don't, what is this nonsense

[ccrider]

If the "woke left, whatever the **** SJW" mob was half as powerful as you all be live and are pissing your pants about, there wouldn't be a discussion here. You'd all be exiled to Iran or somewhere else that your outdated views are government policy. Equal rights isn't a political issue because trans people make it one; it's an issue because ********* like some of you think that rights are some zero sum pot that can only be divided so much or you'll lose yours. Not one trans person or ally here is saying "accept trans people, give them equal rights and also, here's your hormones." Holy ****, let people be who they ate, STFU about your hurt feelings and realize no one's gonna murder you because they had a legal right to do so after dating you and realizing last minute your cis-gendered. If this is so upsetting, disable all chat, don't play comp where the team actually is and move on. PGI reversed their decision, as a lot of businesses have, because your old *** opinions rooted in some 1950's stay silent or get punished attitudes aren't reflective of the younger generations. No one is appealing to you anymore; it's not a "get woke, go broke" world; businesses have always made decisions that appeal to the majority of potential customers. This used to benefit certain regressive attitudes and you were fine with that. Now it doesn't and you feel attacked. Whaa. I'm sorry your thin-skinned and so easily hurt but it's time to join 2021 and stop thinking there's some mystical "silent majority" that supports you. Everyone who says that is loud as ****, certainly not silent and pretty much wrong about every social issue around. Being progressive doesn't mean that cis, I
Hetero white guys will have anything to worry about; it just means everyone will have the same opportunities and chance to live their lives free of fear as well. If that's too much for you, I can think of a dozen places at least you can go cry in. ******* babies.

[Rain Dark Sky]

So, yeah, I'm voting PGI should have banned the team for spamming sexual material.

Same as they should ban anyone spamming "vote for Trump" or "Vote for Biden" or "Global Warming is going to kill us", etc, etc.

I hear "Russ" is in hot water for putting a rebel flag on the back of his mech?

Who cares.

That "Lack of Tolerance" thing again, you can believe anything you want as long as you agree with me...

Now, can we get back to playing the game? I'm here to have fun, not listen to people complain that not enough people are boosting their low self esteem.

[Gagis]

Not being an ******* is not very hard. Try it.

[ccrider]

CherokeeRose, on 04 October 2021 - 09:13 PM, said:

So, yeah, I'm voting PGI should have banned the team for spamming sexual material.

Same as they should ban anyone spamming "vote for Trump" or "Vote for Biden" or "Global Warming is going to kill us", etc, etc.

I hear "Russ" is in hot water for putting a rebel flag on the back of his mech?

Who cares.

That "Lack of Tolerance" thing again, you can believe anything you want as long as you agree with me...

Now, can we get back to playing the game? I'm here to have fun, not listen to people complain that not enough people are boosting their low self esteem.

Trans rights is sexual material? What about asexual gender dysphoric people? Is that sexual. Do you play comp? We're you subjected to some heinous attack? No one is stopping you from playing the game; no one's taking your kids away to some camp to be brainwashed. No one's banning religion. Your gonna be alright; trans people aren't in the current environment. If things were equal, this discussion would be non-existent. Things aren't so here we all are. Also, flying the flag of traitors to the country isn't some heroic stand; it's supporting traitors and celebrating the losing team. When's the last time you heard someone say, " I bought this Chiefs Jersey cause I loved the way Tampa beat them in the Super Bowl." You never have. Cause in America we like winners and the confederatess were not winners.

[The6thMessenger]

Kaio-Kerensky x10, on 04 October 2021 - 08:33 PM, said:

if you can't figure out the difference between people who wanna live and people who want to make life **** for someone else just trying to get by, that's a you problem

You frame it as "just let trans people live their lives in peace", but what is happening right now is discord.

A ciswoman might not be comfortable with a transwoman sharing the same space, of bathroom or restrooms, or sports; and if it's just a matter of comfort why would we prioritize making the trans-person comfortable over the ciswoman? Is the ciswoman not entitled to the same consideration?

Same question, why are we going to force women to bear the children they don't want, for whatever reason? What about the rights of the kid to live? What about the body autonomy of the mother?

You imply that this is just basic fact of decency, but why can't we question it? Why do you need to shame us for not agreeing on the dot? If said propositions were moral, then it should be able to stand to scrutiny.

Sure you can say "don't kill people", but when you examine it, there are perfectly good instances of why you should kill people, and that is to protect others and preserve the most amount of life.

No, it's actually pretty similar, and it's not really even a problem. But what you are doing is an oversimplification that throws away the nuance. It's exactly political because it's policies that will affect everyone, and to just go bull-rushing through with nothing but dogmatically held belief is a sure fire way to step on people.

These are tricky question, and to insist that there's just simple answers are deluding people, and is just Dunning-Krueger Effect. But unfortunately, this is NOT the right place for it.

[ccrider]

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 09:41 PM, said:

You frame it as "just let trans people live their lives in peace", but what is happening right now is discord.

A ciswoman might not be comfortable with a transwoman sharing the same space, of bathroom or restrooms, or sports; and if it's just a matter of comfort why would we prioritize making the trans-person comfortable over the ciswoman? Is the ciswoman not entitled to the same consideration?

Same question, why are we going to force women to bear the children they don't want, for whatever reason? What about the rights of the kid to live? What about the body autonomy of the mother?

You imply that this is just basic fact of decency, but why can't we question it? Why do you need to shame us for not agreeing on the dot? If said propositions were moral, then it should be able to stand to scrutiny.

Sure you can say "don't kill people", but when you examine it, there are perfectly good instances of why you should kill people, and that is to protect others and preserve the most amount of life.

No, it's actually pretty similar, and it's not really even a problem. But what you are doing is an oversimplification that throws away the nuance. It's exactly political because it's policies that will affect everyone, and to just go bull-rushing through with nothing but dogmatically held belief is a sure fire way to step on people.

These are tricky question, and to insist that there's just simple answers are deluding people, and is just Dunning-Krueger Effect. But unfortunately, this is NOT the right place for it.

I've seen dozens of manly looking woman who use the women's room. Without checking, how do these women know a trans person is in the bathroom? Does anyone really want to watch a woman pee so bad they'd spend a year with a psychiatrist, multiple years on hormones and then get surgery? Seriously? That's a level of dedication only matched by Olympians and I doubt any voyeur is going that far with the internet being a thing.

Edited by ccrider, 04 October 2021 - 09:49 PM.

[Nightbird]

Left click on the name of the person spamming in the drop screen or when pressing tab, and select block. It's not hard...

[The6thMessenger]

ccrider, on 04 October 2021 - 09:47 PM, said:

overseen dozens of manly looking woman who use the women's room. Without checking, how do these women know a trans person is in the bathroom? Does anyone really want to watch a woman pee so bad they'd spend a year with a psychiatrist, multiple years on hormones and then get surgery? Seriously? That's a level of dedication only matched by Olympians and I doubt any voyeur is going that far with the internet being a thing.

People have their own reasons for feeling said way, I am not one to judge.

But here is the thing, you can't shame people into agreeing with you, that's not how it works.

[Scythe Kagato]

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 06:26 PM, said:

And no one here is saying you don't. What we are saying is that we don't f@#$ing care

Did you just say the quiet part out loud? Because this all really boils down to this. doesn't it?

Naw, 6thMessenger, don't "like" that. It's not a compliment to point out that you don't care about trans rights. It's not something you should be proud of, either.

Edited by Scythe Kagato, 04 October 2021 - 10:42 PM.

[Danichi Itobar]

I think PGI has heard us, or at least they will and shut this thread down.

To sum up. All we really want is fair treatment of all in regards to spam in the in game chat or other violations of the TOS or rules. We want to know that things will be applied fairly across the board. Is that too much to ask really?

I am now bored with this converstaion as its straying off topic...










Anyone else want to go shoot stuff in big stompy robots?

[The6thMessenger]

Scythe Kagato, on 04 October 2021 - 10:06 PM, said:

Naw, 6thMessenger, don't "like" that. It's not a compliment to point out that you don't care about trans rights. It's not something you should be proud of, either.

Assuming political opponent's stance is rather typical, it's easier to take the strawman down after all. I mean you already removed the "this is not the right place" part.

Butt-hay, keep assuming my stance for me. You're cuter that way.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2021 - 11:13 PM.

[Commoners]

CherokeeRose, on 04 October 2021 - 09:59 PM, said:

I supported your view in the 1990's when the hard push for the normalization of homosexuality was just begining, "Don't ask don't tell", etc.

For the record, DADT was a segregation policy by the pentagon, not an equality one. It was just their policy from WW1 and onward except actually codified. It was used to discharge military servicemen and women who were in same-sex relationships, and could go so far as someone anonymously recording them in their own private residences and presenting that as evidence of homosexuality to their chain of command to get them booted. It was selectively used to target many homosexual service members and its use in that capacity was used in court cases that eventually got it abolished as a policy.

It also prevented same-sex spouses from receiving spousal benefits, which could amount to tens of thousands of dollars for the family annually in allowances, thousands of dollars in the cost of individual health care, and prevented the widow/widower from receiving death benefits if their partner died while in service.

So if the furthest that you supported equality was that, it's not really a high bar to jump to support something that's viewed as aberrant from the standards set by the U.S. Constitution. It's a bird of the same feather for the policies that prevented black servicemembers from serving in non-black units, or prevented asian servicemembers from serving outside of supply and logistical positions like storekeepers, clothing launderers, and culinary positions. All of those policies were made in the name of 'combat effectiveness' but it turns out that it doesn't make a goddamn difference if you're not a heterosexual or what color your skin is when it comes to combat effectiveness.

Edited by Commoners, 05 October 2021 - 12:07 AM.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

i didn't expect just straight-up, mask-off homophobia in this thread tbh