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Are We Gonna Talk About This Apology Letter?


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#41 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:32 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 05 October 2021 - 05:27 PM, said:


It's not really the catering or lack there-of, and quite frankly I don't care about the name. In fact, such answer is to address the other person's query.

The comment was the bigger picture, end here it's the need of recognition and attention, to make everything about x. This **** is pervasive.

Could you imagine discussing LoTR, and someone pointed out real world politics there? What's the point of the escapist fantasy if we're not going to leave the real world behind? And the sad fact there is that they are actually doing it to LoTR right now.

People just want their stompy robots, likewise elves and dwarves, in their respective spaces. This attempt to add real world politics here is just ruining it for everyone else.


the existence of trans people is not political though?

#42 The6thMessenger

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:33 PM

View PostSug, on 05 October 2021 - 05:31 PM, said:

I can get behind that. I don't need to see teams named Blue Lives Matter or Biden2024. I'm here to escape that ****.


I know right?

I don't want to ******* talk about cheeto-president or the naroleptic pedo-president, or 2A issues, or mask mandates, all that stuff in here. Else I wouldn't have gone to shitpost on reddit or facebook.

The purer we keep this as mechwarrior space, the bigger it is for everyone.

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:32 PM, said:


the existence of trans people is not political though?


How many times we (I) have to tell you.

No one here is saying trans people don't exist, we (I) just don't care, this is not the right place for it.

Also Trans-Rights, as policies within the real world IS politics.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 October 2021 - 05:37 PM.


#43 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:34 PM

View PostYueFei, on 05 October 2021 - 05:06 PM, said:


You're so scared that they'll keep demanding "more"?

Yes. Unironically yes. I am worried that, in a game about giant robots shooting each other, they will demand more and more divisive political representation.

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Like, did you think all work on women's rights in the USA was finished the exact moment they got the vote in 1920? Would you have also ranted about "OMG what's next? They gonna want equal pay for equal work, too!?"

Why should I care what some Burgerstanians do, so long as it doesnt affect me? But in all honesty, everyone deserves equality and I am very happy that we have equal rights for all in the West.

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If this first step opens the door for more? Good. That's what progress is.

No. Progress is improvement. This is not improvement, it is catering to an extremely vocal and politically motivated group of people with a gigantic victim complex that is only outdone by their mammoth ego and desire to make everything they see conform to their desires. It is anything but progress.

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I look forward to the day when my own grandchildren find my views backward and appalling,

Given the current state of things, I would dread that as it would mean that something awful had happened to society. The day that free speech and equal rights are backward and appalling is the day that my country ceases to exist.

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because it will mean that society has been moving forward.

Society has moved forwards. Men and women are equal, people who are gay or trans are treated just like everyone else. There are greater issues, like the authoritarian stance of my government but this is not a place to discuss these.

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I only hope I have the wisdom to stay out of their way, rather than being an old man yelling at clouds.

If society has given up free speech and liberal attitudes for good then I would abandon it. Or fight back.

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Or, even better, I find a way to altogether transcend the biases that were inculcated into me since childhood!

What biases? What indoctrination? What horrific place did you attend for your education?

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:14 PM, said:



What more do you think they'll demand? Again, nothing has been required of or prohibited to you. The only thing that's changed is that two teams have "trans fights" and "trans rights" in their names. What's the next step here, do you think? Be specific.


I will. But first, you answer mine.
Where, in a game about giant robots shooting each other, does a persons IRL chosen gender enter the picture? Why does it matter if they are trans or gay or bi or whatever? Why does any of this matter in an online game where the most one player sees of another is the battlemech they are piloting? Why do these politics need inserting?

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trans folks have had a rough time -- discriminated against both in the law and outside of it, ostracized from family, high rates of suicide as a result of the latter. I don't think allowing "trans fights" and "trans rights" as team names and in chat is the catering you think it is.

Thats weird. Im starting to think this may be down to local culture as nothing you said there applies to my country. But if they can have trans rights as a team name can I please have 4th SS Volksturm? Or 22nd Totenkompf? Its not political, its just a name.

#44 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM

View PostAsh Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

Nobody is asking for lore changes over this, you paranoid weirdo.

Reminds me of the 'Steps' from another board I frequent, which now has a recognition guide for Wokie infiltration attempts

>We just want X to happen so we feel more comfortable

>Okay, well X has happened but we also think that Y would be good

>Dont worry, Y wont lead to Z or T

>Well, Z happened but isnt it better? Only biggots dont like it

>T is happening and its for the good of the community, only chuds wont like it and they will leave

>Now A is happening and you cant stop it

Along with a list of the usual tactics
>Gaslighting
>Fencesitters wisdom
>Im rubber, your glue
>Only [bad guys] dont like this

#45 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

I will. But first, you answer mine.
Where, in a game about giant robots shooting each other, does a persons IRL chosen gender enter the picture? Why does it matter if they are trans or gay or bi or whatever? Why does any of this matter in an online game where the most one player sees of another is the battlemech they are piloting? Why do these politics need inserting?


Thats weird. Im starting to think this may be down to local culture as nothing you said there applies to my country. But if they can have trans rights as a team name can I please have 4th SS Volksturm? Or 22nd Totenkompf? Its not political, its just a name.


a. if it doesn't matter, why are you so upset over it? Clearly something about this bothers you to the point where anything acknowledging their existence has caused you to repeatedly insist you don't care over the course of several thousand poorly chosen words.

b. this refers mainly to America. I'm not sure where you're from but I tend to doubt trans folks have had a peach of a time wherever that is.

c. It's extremely interesting that you are equating "trans rights" and "trans fights" with the {Godwin's Law}, an explicitly political movement dedicated to ethnic extermination. I'll break it down for you: the former's goal is "we would like to exist" and the latter's is "death to the lesser races."

Edited by pattonesque, 05 October 2021 - 05:40 PM.


#46 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:40 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:32 PM, said:


the existence of trans people is not political though?

They make it political, thats the problem.

#47 The6thMessenger

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:41 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:

c. It's extremely interesting that you are equating "trans rights" and "trans fights" with the {Godwin's Law}, an explicitly political movement dedicated to ethnic extermination. I'll break it down for you: the former's goal is "we would like to exist" and the latter's is "death to the lesser races."


Trans-People already exist, Trans-Rights just makes them more comfortable.

Tacking on their existence on rights, just so we can't disagree with it lest we "deny" they exist, is just disingenuous playing the victim.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 October 2021 - 08:01 PM.


#48 Fainting Goat

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:41 PM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 05 October 2021 - 02:49 PM, said:

Are we even allowed to talk it?


Yes.

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Why was PGI compelled to make a public apology?


I don't know. Why do you care so much?

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Why not just make it right with the offended parties and move on?


I don't know for sure. Maybe because it had already become a known issue which was being discussed publicly.

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Was PGI attacked? Were they threatened by a gaggle of angry activists?


I don't know. Why are you speculating? This is just weird.

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Why would they bring this negative attention to their product and franchise, unless they were coerced in some way.


Maybe you need a new hobby.

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Perhaps they were compelled by their local government, I really don't know.


Yeah, or maybe not, I really don't know either.

#49 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:43 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

They make it political, thats the problem.


the existence of trans people is political?

I'm gonna guess "political" for you is anything you don't like and wish didn't exist.

#50 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:44 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

They make it political, thats the problem.

No, people who are mad about it make it political, I would actually really love if everything about my life wasn't a matter of public debate and discourse.

#51 Sug

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:50 PM

View PostAsh Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:44 PM, said:

I would actually really love if everything about my life wasn't a matter of public debate and discourse.


Well hopefully you chose white male as your new character.

#52 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:52 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:39 PM, said:


a. if it doesn't matter, why are you so upset over it? Clearly something about this bothers you to the point where anything acknowledging their existence has caused you to repeatedly insist you don't care over the course of several thousand poorly chosen words.

At this point I have to assume your being purposefully obtuse. Its not that I care about trans rights or whatever, its that this is the inevitable first step, the first push, the first demand that brings about the first bend of the knee. Its happened in plenty of other Western media companies, and if you are too blind to see it, well, Im not sure what to say.

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b. this refers mainly to America. I'm not sure where you're from but I tend to doubt trans folks have had a peach of a time wherever that is.

The UK. And I am sure that they would have a better time all around if the woke crowd would stop using it as a political tool in their arsenal to force division and carpet a very specific brand of politics into everything they can get their claws in.

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c. It's extremely interesting that you are equating "trans rights" and "trans fights" with the {Godwin's Law}, an explicitly political movement dedicated to ethnic extermination. I'll break it down for you: the former's goal is "we would like to exist" and the latter's is "death to the lesser races."

If the shoe fits... Both want to push a totalitarian philosophy and exterminate or silence any who disagree, and the more I see of the modern woke movement the more I am reminded of the numerous fascist dictatorships from history, such as the {Godwin's Law}, Soviet Russia, North Korea, etc. The face has been given a sparkly new coat of rainbow paint but the core remains the same.

Now what is far more interesting to me is that you are still avoiding the question I presented to you:
Where, in a game about giant stompy robots, does identity politics fit? Where, in this entire game, in this setting, do such things as trans politics matter? When the core centric is mechs shooting each other why does someones self identity matter?

And as a bonus:
If it is okay for a team to be called transrights then is it also okay for a team to be named after an SS brigade or something similar?

Edited by Blood Rose, 05 October 2021 - 05:53 PM.


#53 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:54 PM

Wow, you uh, really wanna keep bringing up the {Godwin's Law} stuff huh.

#54 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:56 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:52 PM, said:

At this point I have to assume your being purposefully obtuse. Its not that I care about trans rights or whatever, its that this is the inevitable first step, the first push, the first demand that brings about the first bend of the knee. Its happened in plenty of other Western media companies, and if you are too blind to see it, well, Im not sure what to say.


The UK. And I am sure that they would have a better time all around if the woke crows would stop using it as a political tool in their arsenal to force division and carpet a very specific brand of politics into everything they can get their claws in.


If the shoe fits... Both want to push a totalitarian philosophy and exterminate or silence any who disagree, and the more I see of the modern woke movement the more I am reminded of the numerous fascist dictatorships from history, such as the {Godwin's Law}, Soviet Russia, North Korea, etc. The face has been given a sparkly new coat of rainbow paint but the core remains the same.

Now what is far more interesting to me is that you are still avoiding the question I presented to you:
Where, in a game about giant stompy robots, does identity politics fit? Where, in this entire game, in this setting, do such things as trans politics matter? When the core centric is mechs shooting each other why does someones self identity matter?

And as a bonus:
If it is okay for a team to be called transrights then is it also okay for a team to be named after an SS brigade or something similar?



actually no, one wants to exterminate or silence anyone who disagrees, the other is just asking for acknowledgement and a little dignity. Trans folks are an oppressed minority with very little actual power, the {Godwin's Law} party exterminated millions and conquered most of Europe. I think there is something of a difference.

you keep thinking this is the first step in something which is going to somehow infringe upon you in a harmful way and keep alluding to vague "first steps" and "bending the knee." Here's what's up: for all you say that you don't care, I think you care quite a bit. I think you hate trans people but don't want to admit it publicly because then people might rightly be like "what is wrong with you dude." You're so emotionally fragile that folks saying this to you feels, to you, incredibly painful.

Again, so far you have been required to do nothing, say nothing, and you have not been prohibited from anything. This is apparently too much for you to bear.

Edited by pattonesque, 05 October 2021 - 05:58 PM.


#55 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:56 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:43 PM, said:


the existence of trans people is political?

I'm gonna guess "political" for you is anything you don't like and wish didn't exist.

No. I mean its the massive woke movement that makes someones identity a political thing and the insist on inserting it into everything. Guess what? This is a game about BATTLEMECHS. Your personal identity matters not one jot, and neither does mine.

View PostAsh Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:44 PM, said:

No, people who are mad about it make it political, I would actually really love if everything about my life wasn't a matter of public debate and discourse.

Then dont let it be made that way, and dont push it as such. Identity politics are the weapon of the woke crowd and they are horribly divisive. Just look at the fallout among this community.People are people and the identity of an individual dos not matter in most contexts.

#56 Llyranor

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 05:59 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

Thats weird. Im starting to think this may be down to local culture as nothing you said there applies to my country. But if they can have trans rights as a team name can I please have 4th SS Volksturm? Or 22nd Totenkompf? Its not political, its just a name.


It's interesting you went for this specific comparison because LGBT folk were literally sent to concentration camps. Very curious.

#57 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:00 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

No. I mean its the massive woke movement that makes someones identity a political thing and the insist on inserting it into everything. Guess what? This is a game about BATTLEMECHS. Your personal identity matters not one jot, and neither does mine.


Then dont let it be made that way, and dont push it as such. Identity politics are the weapon of the woke crowd and they are horribly divisive. Just look at the fallout among this community.People are people and the identity of an individual dos not matter in most contexts.


I think it's divisive to you because you hate trans people and would rather they not exist, or barring that, would rather you not hear about them.

#58 Ash Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:02 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

Then dont let it be made that way, and dont push it as such. Identity politics are the weapon of the woke crowd and they are horribly divisive. Just look at the fallout among this community.People are people and the identity of an individual dos not matter in most contexts.


What in the **** does "don't let it be made that way" mean? I am not responsible for the people who are mad I exist. You clearly have a lot of existing grievances you are bringing into this, and I wish you best working through whatever that is, but its really disingenuous to come in here and act like anyone who was annoyed by what happened is synonymous with your enemy in whatever culture war you seem dedicated to fighting. I am not 'the woke crowd' or whoever it is you are mad at, I am just another mech pilot.

#59 Blood Rose

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:05 PM

View Postpattonesque, on 05 October 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:



actually no, one wants to exterminate or silence anyone who disagrees, the other is just asking for acknowledgement and a little dignity.

you keep thinking this is the first step in something which is going to somehow infringe upon you in a harmful way and keep alluding to vague "first steps" and "bending the knee." Here's what's up: for all you say that you don't care, I think you care quite a bit. I think you hate trans people but don't want to admit it publicly because then people might rightly be like "what is wrong with you dude." You're so emotionally fragile that folks saying this to you feels, to you, incredibly painful.

Again, so far you have been required to do nothing, say nothing, and you have not been prohibited from anything. This is apparently too much for you to bear.

You know what, **** giving this a full reply. You are still outright refusing to give me an answer to a question I have posed to you multiple times now, a simple question and one that, if you are as you claim to be, should be easy to answer:

Where, in this game about giant stompy robots, do identity politics fit? Why, in this game about mechs shooting each other, does someones chosen identity matter? What is so important about this entire issue that it has to be crammed into the game?

And as for hating trans people, I really do not care what anyones choice is, so long as its not used for identity politics. I have trans friends, I have gay friends and bi friends. None of them bother me because they are people first and [chosen identity] last.

Ah to hell with this, its 3am and im arguing with people who refuse to argue in good faith.
Good night. And try to answer the question.

Edited by Blood Rose, 05 October 2021 - 06:05 PM.


#60 pattonesque

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Posted 05 October 2021 - 06:05 PM

View PostBlood Rose, on 05 October 2021 - 06:03 PM, said:

You know what, **** giving this a full reply. You are still outright refusing to give me an answer to a question I have posed to you multiple times now, a simple question and one that, if you are as you claim to be, should be easy to answer:

Where, in this game about giant stompy robots, do identity politics fit? Why, in this game about mechs shooting each other, does someones chosen identity matter? What is so important about this entire issue that it has to be crammed into the game?

And as for hating trans people, I really do not care what anyones choice is, so long as its not used for identity politics. I have trans friends, I have gay friends and bi friends. None of them bother me because they are people first and [chosen identity] last.


you do hate them though, or you wouldn't be spending this much time whining about them. I already told you that "trans rights" and "trans fights" are not equivalent to the {Godwin's Law} party. It'd weird that I have to tell you this because unless you're being deliberately obtuse, this is something a child could understand.

also very likely you know trans people. If you're this offended by their existence, I very much doubt they consider you their friends.

Edited by pattonesque, 05 October 2021 - 06:06 PM.






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