65 replies to this topic

[martian]

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yes? No one has claimed otherwise.

I said:
"I guess that it had something to do with the fact that they were farmed by 10-12-man premades repeatedly.

Despite all its flaws, there has been no such problem in the Quick Play."

I was absolutely correct. The MWO players who disliked being farmed by 10-12-man premades in Community Warfare during events like Tukayyid left for Quick Play - by then composed of solo players. Your attempts to move goalposts by claiming that 4-man premades in QP are the same thing as 10-12-man premade in CW are laughable.

First, 4-man premade in the opposing team in QP has much smaller influence on the game than 12-man premade (the entire coordinating enemy team) in CW/FW/FP. I can not see how you could argue against it.

Second, 4-man premades were incorporated into QP relatively recently.

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

You fail to understand that those 12 firestarters are not from competitive players, not the way we roll. Thus claiming that comps ruin FP by doing something that we have no interest in doing is false and and we are getting flak from something we are not doing.

You still have not answered my question: "What difference does it make if the premade calls itself "competetive" or by any other name?
For those random PUGs it was just a 12 Firestarters rushing generators and ending the game in 2 minutes, after 30 or 40 minutes of waiting."

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

Common enough that people complain can mean in these forums that it didn't happen even once
So this doesn't really give any meaningful number how often that happened.

You wanted a proof, I gave you some posts from this very forum, written by the players complaining about the problem.

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

No with your claim there never should have even been FP population, there was. Plenty of units proud of their faction
and whole games player base have declined very heavily from those days 33,7k last Tuk vs 19,4k now or rockbottom between these Feb 20 just 10,4k so Yeah lots of ppl have quit this game

And the population of CW/FW/FP has diminished steadily right to the today's levels ...

What better proof does anybody need to see that CW/FP has never been what the MWO players really wanted? If they had liked the CW/FP, they would not left CW/FP in particular and maybe MWO in general.

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

Oh please make your tinfoil hat thicker...

The problem is that I remember those groups switching sides, so they did not have to face each other. One group switching from the IS to the Clan side ... and in two or three hours similar groups switching to the same side as the first group, so during the event they could not go against each other.

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 01:40 PM, said:

And if I remember correctly there wasn't quick side switching (like we have now) when last Tuk happened.

I did not care enough about the last Tukayyid from 2017.

But during 2015 Tukayyid PGI allowed switching sides right midway the event. And of course in 2015 or 2016 there were other CW events and even just ordinary CW playing, not just Tukayyid.

[PocketYoda]

LordNothing, on 08 October 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

id play a tukayyid event. i mean just do one, make it last a month. do double rp/lp, the usual battery of challenges. i think people will show up for something different.

I'd attempt it.. probably hate it but i'd attempt it.. To be fair i hate normal Faction play as well. The whole bias maps and annoying gates the zerg up four times to waste mechs..

The whole design is asinine, but i'd attempt it anyway, even scouting and VIP were better than faction play and that was pretty bad..

Edited by MechaGnome, 13 October 2021 - 04:36 AM.

[w0qj]

+1
I've never played the Tukayyid event before (was not around), and would love to try it at least once.

Especially if there's a special mech and other goodies rewarded for the extended time spent on this Tukayyid event

[martian]

w0qj, on 12 October 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

Especially if there's a special mech and other goodies rewarded for the extended time spent on this Tukayyid event

There were two 'Mechs to choose from: Champion Banshee and standard Masakari since PGI forgot to make it the Champion variety. I went with the Clan 'Mech anyway.

Some C-Bills, MCs, cockpit item and XPs too.

[Wid1046]

justcallme A S H, on 08 October 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

Split buckets were removed because split buckets are bad.

They thankfully won't be coming back

Lol. Because driving away solo players has made the game mode so amazingly popular.

[justcallme A S H]

The warning screen is clear about groups and organisation.

You should read it some time.

[Wid1046]

justcallme A S H, on 12 October 2021 - 12:22 PM, said:

The warning screen is clear about groups and organisation.
[redacted]

Yes, obviously. I quoted your line about PGI having gotten rid of a solo queue in Faction Play. And if there were a solo queue it would not be required to be in a group as there would be no groups in that queue. That seems like a pretty obvious point, but seeing as you somehow missed it, I guess it needed to be spelled out.

A solo queue would likely get people who are hesitant to try FP to try the game mode as it would be more casual to pick up and start playing. More people trying out the game mode as solo players would likely mean that some of them would like it and possibly switch into the group queue as they find people they like playing with. You are unlikely to get much fresh blood in there with how things are now.

justcallme A S H, on 12 October 2021 - 12:22 PM, said:

[redacted]
You should read it some time.

However, with how abrasive and insulting you always are, I doubt that you'll consider any other opinion.

[Yllirion]

Wid1046, on 13 October 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

Yes, obviously. I quoted your line about PGI having gotten rid of a solo queue in Faction Play. And if there were a solo queue it would not be required to be in a group as there would be no groups in that queue. That seems like a pretty obvious point, but seeing as you somehow missed it, I guess it needed to be spelled out.

A solo queue would likely get people who are hesitant to try FP to try the game mode as it would be more casual to pick up and start playing. More people trying out the game mode as solo players would likely mean that some of them would like it and possibly switch into the group queue as they find people they like playing with. You are unlikely to get much fresh blood in there with how things are now.

Ok. Let's say the developers listen to you and add a queue for single players. And nothing will change for poor little pugs, because we have a lot players, who can solo easily breake 3k+ damage/8-12 kills every match. Whining is a very bad habit.

[LordNothing]

i think the warning pop up is stupid on the grounds that it discourages people from joining. the last thing fp needs is more gatekeeping. thats sort of why it failed in the first place. instead tell incoming players what they need to know to get gud at the mode. not some absurdly high standard that alienates the bulk of the player base.

[justcallme A S H]

Wid1046, on 13 October 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

And if there were a solo queue it would not be required

justcallme A S H, on 08 October 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

Split buckets were removed because split buckets are bad.

There isn't anything else to it.

Yllirion, on 13 October 2021 - 08:16 AM, said:

Ok. Let's say the developers listen to you and add a queue for single players. And nothing will change for poor little pugs, because we have a lot players, who can solo easily breake 3k+ damage/8-12 kills every match. Whining is a very bad habit.

Exactly.

Additionally all that will happen is small groups of 3-6 rather than Q into the GroupQ will then just split up and queue up solo and wallah - you now have a group in the solo bucket.

It is just fundamentally flawed.

[justcallme A S H]

LordNothing, on 13 October 2021 - 10:22 AM, said:

i think the warning pop up is stupid on the grounds that it discourages people from joining. the last thing fp needs is more gatekeeping. thats sort of why it failed in the first place. instead tell incoming players what they need to know to get gud at the mode. not some absurdly high standard that alienates the bulk of the player base.

Gatekeeping is exactly what Faction Play needed from the outset. Save players from themselves. The amount of times:

• CADETs are in there.
  
• People doing 80-200dmg across 4 mechs in a 20-30min period (due to incorrect loadouts, not heeding the warning).
  
• Trial Mechs being used on the wrong maps.

etc etc. That is what will drive new players away, not a warning screen.

No one has fun in these situations. Not the player themselves, not the team they drag down and not the opposition who are attacking wet noodles. Gating would have protected new players and super low-skill ones from the organised groups/builds etc that they very warning screen, warns you about!

Players should be needed to have 2 drop decks / 8 mechs fully skilled for the side they are playing. Or at the least 1 deck / 4 mechs.

It is extremely frustrating when people on discord or streaming telling new players to go to Faction Play for the 'mechbay'. Doing 200dmg a game is going to take them months to get the mechbays where they are far better of learning the game in Quick Play, playing out the events and getting mechbays via the MC offered. It will save them heaps of time and also improve their cbill intake/reduce the grind aspect.

[Saved By The Bell]

Some day I ll join. My training isnt over yet.

Novice, drunkers, 2-5 Tiers shouldnt be there.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 13 October 2021 - 11:02 PM.

[B0oN]

Wid1046, on 13 October 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

However, with how abrasive and insulting you always are, I doubt that you'll consider any other opinion.

Ash and abrasive ?
Lol no ... that´s not the man I got to know .

Insulting ? Happens
And I know for a fact cause Ive been regularly called his gayest ppc-slinging fanboy .
Does that bother me ?
Less than zero, cause I share the joke and call him an up-side-down Austrian xD

Chill, ready Yondus FP guide, stick with the team (or try commanding yourself) and do more than 400 dmg across 4 mechs and all should be fairly friendly .


P.s.: Ahhh, Tukkayid ... good times, good times were had en suité and en massé, too bad it has barely any chance of happening nowadays *sniff*

Edited by B0oN, 13 October 2021 - 11:30 PM.

[Curccu]

Saved By The Bell, on 13 October 2021 - 10:58 PM, said:

Novice, drunkers, 2-5 Tiers shouldnt be there.

Drunkers? I think most of the players there are drunk almost always (yes even those baddies in groups)

[LordNothing]

\

justcallme A S H, on 13 October 2021 - 08:14 PM, said:

Gatekeeping is exactly what Faction Play needed from the outset. Save players from themselves. The amount of times:

• CADETs are in there.
  
• People doing 80-200dmg across 4 mechs in a 20-30min period (due to incorrect loadouts, not heeding the warning).
  
• Trial Mechs being used on the wrong maps.

etc etc. That is what will drive new players away, not a warning screen.



No one has fun in these situations. Not the player themselves, not the team they drag down and not the opposition who are attacking wet noodles. Gating would have protected new players and super low-skill ones from the organised groups/builds etc that they very warning screen, warns you about!

Players should be needed to have 2 drop decks / 8 mechs fully skilled for the side they are playing. Or at the least 1 deck / 4 mechs.

It is extremely frustrating when people on discord or streaming telling new players to go to Faction Play for the 'mechbay'. Doing 200dmg a game is going to take them months to get the mechbays where they are far better of learning the game in Quick Play, playing out the events and getting mechbays via the MC offered. It will save them heaps of time and also improve their cbill intake/reduce the grind aspect.

gating really low end players is one thing. but when you got people in tiers higher than 3, who can aim, position and manage heat, and have a lot of mechs with good builds yet still wont touch fp with a 10 foot pole. then you have an fp existential crisis. is fp endgame content, or is it the elite mech 90th+ percentile only club? do people who play fp want more people to join or do they simply want to keep it "pure"?

you can ban cadets and trials. its a good idea, but that will not solve the problems that keep people from joining. its an old game, people have a lot of mechs and yet fp is constantly stagnant. id love to start playing again. i dont even mind that the mode is hard. but ive gotten fed up by the long wait times and constant attrition play. the mode needs a massive injection of new blood and any resistance to that is just not getting us anywhere.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 October 2021 - 11:22 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Where did I say 90th percentile only? Do not try and twist my words.

I was very clear who I was talking about. New players/trial mech users only.


I also said it should have been done from the start. Most things are far too late now.

[Gas Guzzler]

I'd touch Faction Play if it wasn't a constant waiting game.

Every time I try it I wait around for 10-15 minutes and get tired of waiting and drop quick play and don't go back for a long time.

[Nightbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 October 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'd touch Faction Play if it wasn't a constant waiting game.

Every time I try it I wait around for 10-15 minutes and get tired of waiting and drop quick play and don't go back for a long time.

Are you dropping with a group? It's one thing if pop is low and matches aren't launching, but another if you're soloing and getting skipped by groups.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightbird, on 14 October 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

Are you dropping with a group? It's one thing if pop is low and matches aren't launching, but another if you're soloing and getting skipped by groups.

Typically solo. I'll have time to myself on Saturday for group FP drops

[LordNothing]

low population means full groups can effectively blackball solos from dropping. though practically there is usually space for a small number of solos with how hard it is to field a full 12 man. then you are at the mercy of the mm.

i figure if there were dedicated slots for solos (like charlie lance), or even if there was a one lance rule like in qp, a lot more people would play. or even if for a couple nights a week there is a one lance limit. 12 mans usually congregate on certain days anyway to maximize their drop rates. dont see why solos cant play on the off days.