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Oce Deadspot


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#1 BROARL

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 07:57 PM

during OCE weeknights there is basically zero faction.
i am not the only person who has sat in queue for H O U R S only to see the count max out at 8/7 etc.
if scouting were available during OCE prime then there could be games.

*on a personal note i dislike scouting but this isn't about what i want, it's about what is good for the game. the argument may be made that scouting would take players from the near dead OCE quickplay games but i counter this with less players would log out at 4pm if we thought there would be something to play if we stayed.

#2 Silver Pheonix

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:54 PM

The reason its dead is because of one group killing the faction play. The unnamed group have single handedly ruins the faction play to the point of queue beening dead. The Unnamed group drives players away and leave new players not wanting to play. The unnamed group has been doing some questionable game play and shoot that is also questionable. It has come to the point of said group enter queue and then everyone leaves. until they fix faction this willl be a issue.

#3 justcallme A S H

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:59 PM

lol?

#4 Jeff on a Buffalo

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 07:29 AM

With the FW MWO community being quite small, maybe it is time to go to the old school 8 player per side matches for that mode? If nothing else, that would help differentiate this mode a bit more from the general QP that most players go to? But if your counter normally just gets to 8/7, that does not really help you so I can understand the comment on bringing scouting back.

#5 Jun Watarase

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM

View PostSilver Pheonix, on 08 October 2021 - 09:54 PM, said:

The reason its dead is because of one group killing the faction play. The unnamed group have single handedly ruins the faction play to the point of queue beening dead. The Unnamed group drives players away and leave new players not wanting to play. The unnamed group has been doing some questionable game play and shoot that is also questionable. It has come to the point of said group enter queue and then everyone leaves. until they fix faction this willl be a issue.


A couple of us were talking about this in the in game faction chat about this recently. Every cycle theres a single premade that stacks one side and then stomps the randoms who are foolish enough to queue vs them. Thats why you get these ridiculous lopsided win ratio like 0-6. Then when randoms start queuing the winning side to try and get some winning games in, the premade switches side and you suddenly see the losing side racking up wins while the winning side suddenly fails to win a single game. Its so obvious.

FP went downhill when the population dropped enough that just a few premades could single handedly dictate an entire cycle. Most people in the game want easy wins, they dont want a hard fight, so when one premade starts racking up wins, most people refuse to queue to fight them and most of the people who do queue are new players who get baited by the call to arms notification and think "looks cool, i will try this out!" and then get stomped. Then they run away and never come back.

This is EXACTLY why MWO received such bad press when it was first released on Steam because you had all these newbies queuing for FP and getting stomped in their trial mechs. PGI never caught on that this was bad design however. It was just so absurd, I was dropping on grim portico and stomping newbies with ridiculous ratios of 48-6 or something like that, it was a ridiculous feeding frenzy where everyone was just trying to feed on as many newbies as possible with zero thought to teamplay. Anyone who was playing FP during that time knows what im talking about. Verbal abuse in the chat was at an all time high as well,, so many people were making "jokes" to make fun of the newbies in FP games, it was so toxic, no wonder it drove people away.

The people I was talking to also testified that they were on TS back when you couldnt switch sides freely, and heard drop leaders co-ordinating drop times to avoid fighting each other. Unfortunately thats what happens in every "realm vs realm" game with a low population, you get collusion, rigging and people stacking the winning side because nobody wants to join the underdog side. I used to play the Warhammer MMORPG on the Oceanic server and when the evil side started winning, everyone just started stacking that side, so the good side ended up being outnumberd 4-1 in realm vs realm.

MWO badly needs a mechanism to stop people from just stacking one side with all the top players.

Its gotten to the point where you drop in QP and you see all these units in QP because its just pointless to touch FP without a team of top players backing you up. Let's not kid ourselves, the game population is so low that most units cant even scrap together more than a handful of players on at the same time these days...why do you think they allowed 4 mans to queue for QP again?

Lets say you scrap together an average 4 man and queue for FP...but you are just going to get stomped by the 8-12 man of top players on the other side anyway. So what do you do? You join the winning side because trying to fight them is a waste of time. Or you just drop in QP. Which is what most people are doing these days. You think all those units in QP cant get on TS and organize FP matches? They know fully well how futile it is.

A single premade of top players just dominates most cycles and its just pointless to fight them unless you have your own premade of top players backing you up (and you are a top player of course). Just look at the win ratios of each cycle and more importantly look at WHO is winning those games and at what times. You will find that most of the wins are down to a single team switching sides when they find it convenient to do so, they usually switch about halfway through a cycle which is when the losing side "mysteriously" starts racking up wins and the winning sides stops winning.

When you had 100+ people and many units queuing on each side, this wasnt a problem, there was just too many people to manipulate the cycle. Everyone was queuing as fast as they could to get as many games in and you could get some really close games. FP needs design changes to work properly with a much lower population. Otherwise we will just get stuck in this hell where most people wont touch FP with a ten foot long pole, and that includes all those units you see in QP avoiding FP like the plague.

This isnt even getting into the many ways that certain people have found to break FP matches. When FP first came out, people used to push to try and get into the enemy base and kill the enemy, which is what Siege mode was designed for. After a while, people realised that you could do things like hide in your spawn (as the attacker) so that you could reinforce faster with dropship fire support while hoping the defenders would be bored enough to come and get you. And the fact that QP maps were added to the FP rotation made it worse since you dont even need to open the gates, you can start hiding in or near your spawn from the get go, which I have seen a Davion unit do.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 10 October 2021 - 08:43 AM.


#6 Jun Watarase

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 09:09 AM

As I write this, the EU cycle just started less than 10 mins ago. Its now 11 vs 4 in the queue. Not hard to guess that the 11 side has a premade queuing and is going to get free wins for most of the cycle till they decide to switch.

#7 justcallme A S H

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 12:31 PM

View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:


A couple of us were talking about this in the in game faction chat about this recently. Every cycle theres a single premade that stacks one side and then stomps the randoms who are foolish enough to queue vs them. Thats why you get these ridiculous lopsided win ratio like 0-6. Then when randoms start queuing the winning side to try and get some winning games in, the premade switches side and you suddenly see the losing side racking up wins while the winning side suddenly fails to win a single game. Its so obvious.


Good to have you posting back on the forums again because I get to reply with...

Absolute rubbish, as usual.


Almost every time I've played Faction in recent memory it's been 8-12man vs 8-12man. Even nuttyrat was streaming Faction for 4-5hrs yesterday and it was groups against groups basically the entire time.

The mode has clear warnings about what to expect and people make a conscious choice to ignore it. If you've been warned, don't wanna heed the warning then you are at the mercy of your own choices. That is life.

#8 Stonefalcon

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 02:13 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 October 2021 - 12:31 PM, said:

The mode has clear warnings about what to expect and people make a conscious choice to ignore it. If you've been warned, don't wanna heed the warning then you are at the mercy of your own choices. That is life.


^^ Exactly this. FW is meant to be MWO's endgame, new players should not even be attempting this until they have two playable drop decks, with those being one clan and one IS.

All too often we see people bringing trial mechs to Faction and it honestly breaks my heart cause those people will likely stop playing the game period after one or two bad faction drops.

View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:


A couple of us were talking about this in the in game faction chat about this recently. Every cycle theres a single premade that stacks one side and then stomps the randoms who are foolish enough to queue vs them. Thats why you get these ridiculous lopsided win ratio like 0-6. Then when randoms start queuing the winning side to try and get some winning games in, the premade switches side and you suddenly see the losing side racking up wins while the winning side suddenly fails to win a single game. Its so obvious.


You love running your mouth don't you?

Large faction groups tend to swap sides because we want to get matches, that's all it is. There's no point queuing on one side when the numbers are 5/27 is it? TBH, what is wrong with switching sides? You act like it's a war crime to do so.

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#9 Voxsera Hazen

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 10:49 AM

View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:


A couple of us were talking about this in the in game faction chat about this recently. Every cycle theres a single premade that stacks one side and then stomps the randoms who are foolish enough to queue vs them. Thats why you get these ridiculous lopsided win ratio like 0-6. Then when randoms start queuing the winning side to try and get some winning games in, the premade switches side and you suddenly see the losing side racking up wins while the winning side suddenly fails to win a single game. Its so obvious.



So...you saying randoms tried to game the system by hopping to the "winning" side to get wins...and complain the group that wants to get matches switches to fight?

View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:


most of the people who do queue are new players who get baited by the call to arms notification and think "looks cool, i will try this out!" and then get stomped. Then they run away and never come back.



There's a warning right at the start, that people don't seem to read. I'll prefer if PGI disallowed cadets and trial mechs in FP, but ah well.


View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:

MWO badly needs a mechanism to stop people from just stacking one side with all the top players.


It's the single bucket system, PGI tried it...and guess what, players who actually play, we still grouped up and fought other groups and the single/duo player only queue was deserted.

View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:

Lets say you scrap together an average 4 man and queue for FP...but you are just going to get stomped by the 8-12 man of top players on the other side anyway. So what do you do? You join the winning side because trying to fight them is a waste of time. Or you just drop in QP. Which is what most people are doing these days. You think all those units in QP cant get on TS and organize FP matches? They know fully well how futile it is.


There's no "winning" side - just players who...gasp, actually play together dropping on a side, and getting matches whenever they can, INCLUDING switching sides to get a match going.

heck, sometimes it's only 4-5 people...I haven't gotten a full group until recently during euro primetime and that's with someone actually picking up people from chat.


View PostJun Watarase, on 10 October 2021 - 08:37 AM, said:

A single premade of top players just dominates most cycles and its just pointless to fight them unless you have your own premade of top players backing you up (and you are a top player of course). Just look at the win ratios of each cycle and more importantly look at WHO is winning those games and at what times. You will find that most of the wins are down to a single team switching sides when they find it convenient to do so, they usually switch about halfway through a cycle which is when the losing side "mysteriously" starts racking up wins and the winning sides stops winning.


Am a bloody potato pilot but having a couple pilots who actually can shoot in a group...you mean teamwork actually makes you win games?!?!

The "mysteriously" winning matches, well...guess it's your method right? Switch sides to get easy wins, but...guess what, the group that shoots decently, sees the queue stacked to one side...and decides to hop to the other to get a match.


All in all, you are quite a special pilot for sure. Please, don't get into FP, you sound like certain Q pilot in recent times.


And as for the OP - The OCE drops by Golli was great while it lasted, I think the timings and population just isn't big, with the original being on a weekday and time differences with some of the SEA players. The 12v12 we got were all pretty balanced on both sides...and guess what, it was groups that organized and get actual fights, sounds like the opposite of what this Jun guy is spewing.

#10 Voxsera Hazen

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 11:01 AM

View PostSilver Pheonix, on 08 October 2021 - 09:54 PM, said:

The reason its dead is because of one group killing the faction play. The unnamed group have single handedly ruins the faction play to the point of queue beening dead. The Unnamed group drives players away and leave new players not wanting to play. The unnamed group has been doing some questionable game play and shoot that is also questionable. It has come to the point of said group enter queue and then everyone leaves. until they fix faction this willl be a issue.



Dude, you were dropping with Bandit last night, he knows about Yondu's Faction Mech list...and, with the builds you brought last night? You lost the battle in the mechlab.

Ask him about it and he could help you with mechs and adjust them to your liking, especially in terms of ammo/armor values

#11 Evogenesis

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Posted 11 October 2021 - 11:02 AM

Regardless of who is "right" or "wrong" there seems the be a general perception that Faction Play has gone off the rails and most players would rather QP than face this unnamed group. Maybe a FP event drawing the masses in could help in the short term.

#12 B0oN

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 01:09 AM

So people still want their matches being "artificially evened out" instead of accepting and rising to a challenge ?

Too bad :(

#13 Bowelhacker

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 05:17 PM

Which ghostly group are we talking about..?

I'm not sure my experience of groups swapping to get games is entirely the same as those above, but it would be ever so nice if people in general did just pay attention to the numbers on each side and adjust accordingly.

ETA: in fact, even as I type, the queue is sitting stubbornly at 8/20. SWAP SIDES YOU GOONS, GET A GAME.

Edited by Bowelhacker, 13 October 2021 - 07:19 PM.


#14 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 10:23 PM

Mwo surely needs something like a red vs blue (perhaps some know the concept out of eve online).
Too be true both sides are right and wrong. Sure faction is meant as a team focus game mode and dropping Solo is rly not much more than qp with respawn. But reality is, there is not enough player base to often allow 2 stacked teams to fight each other. Even EU prime it is mostly a mixed group of good players vs mixed group of pugs.

Too "reduce" this pgi should finally make attack and defend random.
And groups should split up to fight each other if there is no proper opposition. This could for example be arranged via comp discord ... with old school 2 team captains and each pick one player out off the pool (or just break up your 8 man in 2 4 mans). And pls dont come up with the I want to play with my friends. Most players out of this groups dont even know each other.

#15 LordNothing

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Posted 18 October 2021 - 11:29 AM

i kind of wish fp would drop to 8v8 during off-peak hours or when the population is scarce.





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