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Hellebore Outpost First Impressions


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#1 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 01:07 PM

Spent a lot of time in testing grounds exploring the map today. I rather like it. Its pretty and it seems pretty balanced. Its smaller than a lot of maps, so its a dedicated arena. Points as follows:

1- High ground out of bounds. Similar to Viridian Bog, the map is surrounded by high cliffs, and there's really no way you're getting up there without a lot of jump jets. And again, like Viridian, most of the cliff tops are out of bounds. You can find a couple spots that aren't, but if you're trying to snipe from up there, there is no cover. Your choice is to soak fire, fall down, or go out of bounds.

2 - Pillars have ramps. The middle of the map has a lot of high spots. A cursory evaluation would suggest that no one high spot controls a lot of the map, so you can't just post a sniper there and rule the game. Plus on all of these you can just walk up the slope. there are a few easy ways up, but if you have a jump jet or some Hill Climb nodes, you can power up some of the steeper parts too.

3 - Lots of cover. The map is arranged into an outer circuit and an inner circuit, similar to Canyon Network. Keeping to the low ground will keep you from getting sniped. And the high ground is accessible from enough directions that, again, a sniper posted up someplace won't control access to more than a single point on the map. I'll be interested to see how this plays out in Domination games, but as I see it, brawlers should be able to get close to the action without getting blasted to pieces.

Summary... a mobile medium or heavy mech with short to mid range weaponry is going to have a lot of fun on this map. Brawlers and snipers will have their day but not rule the place.

All that's left to do is to rack up games on it. [Team] Banzai!

#2 Abisha

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 01:11 PM

I like the map but do expected more heat on the map the environment do not match

#3 panzer1b

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 01:31 PM

As with all the new maps, the 1st thing i noticed is the "floating plants", so far from bug free :)

Anyways, i like it sofar, it allows for both snipe and brawl, and the only somewhat annoying thing right now is the sheer amount of poptarting but it may just be people trying out mechs like the jenner with 4LPPCs and such. Aside from that the few times ive been on it i did alright but it will take some time before people figure out exactly what the best strats are (and it doesnt look to be nascar)...

#4 SmokeGuar

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 01:31 PM

B3 has gate gen hanging from rock wall, looks like leftover from Hellebore Springs.

Also shooting through trees intended? ( at least in testing grounds )

#5 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 01:44 PM

View Postpanzer1b, on 14 December 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

As with all the new maps, the 1st thing i noticed is the "floating plants", so far from bug free Posted Image

View PostSmokeGuar, on 14 December 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

B3 has gate gen hanging from rock wall, looks like leftover from Hellebore Springs.

Also shooting through trees intended? ( at least in testing grounds )


Yeah, there are some spots where the ground isn't level but the vegetation is and you clip through it. Likewise the tree canopies and purple plants seem to be transparent to movement and weapons fire unlike in Viridian.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 14 December 2021 - 01:44 PM.


#6 pbiggz

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 02:40 PM

View PostAbisha, on 14 December 2021 - 01:11 PM, said:

I like the map but do expected more heat on the map the environment do not match


Sadly environmental heat has basically been non-existent for years. If it still exists its something like 5% of its original value.

#7 Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 04:18 PM

lol this new map is poptarting heaven/hell. I love it but I can see people hating its guts. gg

#8 Blood Rose

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 06:44 PM

Had a fun brawl in it. It seems okayish, certainly far less of a snipefest atleast until Cauldron have their way

#9 Ihlrath

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 07:46 PM

My only complaint is that it's another map that's really hard to see the domination circle on.... is the dude color blind or something? Other than that it's not bad at all.

#10 Bowelhacker

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:02 PM

There's the usual floating objects thing going on in various parts. But it's a surprisingly big map and a very complicated map. Which on one hand I kind of like, but on the other it means we'll end up fighting in the same three places 90% of the time and spend hours chasing that one remaining Flea that just won't stop running..

#11 Nomad Tech

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:19 PM

View Postpbiggz, on 14 December 2021 - 02:40 PM, said:


Sadly environmental heat has basically been non-existent for years. If it still exists its something like 5% of its original value.


Thats good thing keeps maps played and populations strong.

#12 Maddermax

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:04 PM

I played my first couple of missions on it today. Strangely enough, it came up 3 times as an option without being chosen before I finally managed to drop on it. I thought it would have been more popular as the new map on the block.

Generally though, I'm a fan - has some interesting terrain, feels like a taller Canyon Network in some places, with touches of Rubellite Oasis, with the tunnels and vertical platforms.

The only issue I had was that I dropped down under the platform early on, and then struggled for half the match trying to find a place to get back up again. Even with 2 Jump Jets (so not a lot, but still) it took me several minutes to find a way up without being exposed to the enemy, and even that had to take a ramp to the outer ring, then back track to a bridge, cross the bridge to the inner ring, and then back again, so a very roundabout way. I think I should take a while learning the map to find the access points, but they certainly weren't super obvious. I did manage to get 4 kills though, turning up behind the enemy LRM boats at the right time and then skirmishing with the last couple of mediums left.

Second game was more staying on top, and was a bit more passive on my behalf, and that worked well enough.

I really want to try a very jumpy mech on it, like an Arctic Cheeta or simliar, something that can conquer those walls, and put the pressure on the enemy.

Edited by Maddermax, 14 December 2021 - 11:06 PM.


#13 ShiverMeRivets

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 12:31 AM

If you are slow and without jump jets on this map you have a big problem. Most slopes you cannot climb, so once you fall down there is no coming up again, unless you go hiking in long winding trails. Some falls will place you in a position from which to return to the fight will take long minutes. Most matches I played ended in a chaotic brawl at the bottom with mechs from both teams randomly dropping from the fight above down into the mosh pit like autumn leaves.

Because without JJ there is no way to crisscross the map, I found myself in one match watching the fight from afar with a few hundred meters deep ravine between me and the team on the opposing ridge, outside of my weapons range and without any clear path to join up. It is very easy to remove yourself from the match by splitting away from the main zerg and taking a wrong turn / falling into a ravine. I suppose this will be somewhat alleviated when the players are more familiar with the map and the special paths that allow you to climb out of the ravines - a bit like the old canyon map, but much exaggerated.

Visually the map looks pretty.

Edited by ShiverMeRivets, 15 December 2021 - 12:32 AM.


#14 w0qj

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 01:28 AM

Imagine trying to round up the last few JJ Lights to secure your victory--but your mech is left without JJ Posted Image

View PostBowelhacker, on 14 December 2021 - 09:02 PM, said:

There's the usual floating objects thing going on in various parts. But it's a surprisingly big map and a very complicated map. Which on one hand I kind of like, but on the other it means we'll end up fighting in the same three places 90% of the time and spend hours chasing that one remaining Flea that just won't stop running..

Edited by w0qj, 15 December 2021 - 01:31 AM.


#15 w0qj

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 01:31 AM

With the possibility (or threat) of this Hellbore Outpost map being chosen especially in Conquest Mode, I would suspect that many more players are tempted to use mechs with JJ going forward. Slow (IS) Assaults without JJ is a big problem on this map, or at least until you know every nook, cranny, and access ramp shortcuts in this extremely complicated (albeit pretty!) map.

[Addendum]
Upon further analysis, slow IS Assault mechs with no JJ would just go to the map center, and simply stay there for area denial. Therefore for fast moving missions (eg: Conquest) the side with more Light/Medium mechs with JJ would more likely win!
[/Addendum]


View PostShiverMeRivets, on 15 December 2021 - 12:31 AM, said:

If you are slow and without jump jets on this map you have a big problem. Most slopes you cannot climb, so once you fall down there is no coming up again, unless you go hiking in long winding trails. Some falls will place you in a position from which to return to the fight will take long minutes. Most matches I played ended in a chaotic brawl at the bottom with mechs from both teams randomly dropping from the fight above down into the mosh pit like autumn leaves.

Because without JJ there is no way to crisscross the map, I found myself in one match watching the fight from afar with a few hundred meters deep ravine between me and the team on the opposing ridge, outside of my weapons range and without any clear path to join up. It is very easy to remove yourself from the match by splitting away from the main zerg and taking a wrong turn / falling into a ravine. I suppose this will be somewhat alleviated when the players are more familiar with the map and the special paths that allow you to climb out of the ravines - a bit like the old canyon map, but much exaggerated. ...

Edited by w0qj, 15 December 2021 - 03:12 AM.


#16 LordNothing

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 02:33 AM

i played it 6 times and it played out differently every time. i think i like it.

#17 PlzJustDie

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 02:57 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 15 December 2021 - 02:33 AM, said:

i played it 6 times and it played out differently every time. i think i like it.


So far every second match I played has been on this map, I am honestly getting tired of it.

#18 Mark Yore

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 03:09 AM

My first impressions are:
1. The map is gorgeous. I found a nice high spot just so I could enjoy the view.
2. It's going to be very stealth-light friendly.
3. Avoiding snipers is a lot easier than in HPG, for example. Holding a large laser or LRM boating is going to be harder because the target will be able to find quick cover.
4. Visibility is very good and correct placement of UAVs is going to be essential.
5. Slow assaults are going to be punished and jump jets are a definite advantage.
6. Domination - it's really hard to see the centre circle. The gameplay will be mostly peeking and trying to wear down the enemy.
7. Conquest - it will take a while before you learn the map because there are multiple paths to each point.
8. Skirmish - unlike many of the other maps it isn't a race to the centre to die. There are alternate positions depending on your mech composition and starting position. For skirmish it became a case of lots of individual fights, so group discipline is going to be important.
9. Assault - there's less opportunity for wolf packs to sneak around the back and capture the base. Once it settles down I think there will be greater advantages in mechs hugging their own base until they have a numerical advantage and can push through to the enemy base. It's a bit like Viridian Bog but with less open fields of fire.

#19 killkimno

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 04:18 AM

1. Stuck every where.
I don't even have a jumpjet, but most of the terrain gets stuck.

2. Where the hell is the yellow circle? again?

#20 Brom96

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 05:31 AM

JJs are essential, but the map itself is extremely cluttered, again, impeding maneuverability. You can easily try to jump out of the danger, just to land on patch of higher ground behind you, ending the game in 2 seconds due to being exposed to whole enemy team.

So far, the teams fight in the center on the narrow patch of high ground, surrounded on both flanks with high raise outcrops which usually make for head on collision between the two teams. Support to flanking movements is almost non existent due to the cover offered by the outcrops and possibility to shoot teammates in the back in tightly packed formation.

We shall see if folks improve the tactics (hopefully) and start using other parts of the map, as is the case with Canyon.

Flora is indestructible.

At least there is some cover to protect you from sight/snipers.

In summary, interesting map, but detrimental to my playstyle. Shall avoid.





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