40 replies to this topic

[Justin_Xiang]

Something needs to be done with missiles doing so much DMG.

[John Bronco]

It's been out of control with this event, usually it isn't so bad.

Take precautions.

Edited by John Bronco, 16 January 2022 - 02:31 PM.

[KaptinOrk]

Justin_Xiang, on 16 January 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Something needs to be done with missiles doing so much DMG.

Missiles trade any semblance of pinpoint accuracy for raw damage output, the missile spread and travel time help to balance their big damage numbers.

What missiles are you having trouble dealing with?

[PocketYoda]

Easily fixed, make lurm boats get their own locks like the table top.

[Relishcakes]

Nomad Tech, on 16 January 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

Easily fixed, make lurm boats get their own locks like the table top.

In the TT you can spot for a mech and fire indirect.

Justin_Xiang, on 16 January 2022 - 02:28 PM, said:

Something needs to be done with missiles doing so much DMG.

I'll be honest i was half thinking MRM's need a buff...LRMS are easily countered by cover so they are rarely super oppressive.

[Justin_Xiang]

John Bronco, on 16 January 2022 - 02:31 PM, said:

It's been out of control with this event, usually it isn't so bad.

Take precautions.

KaptinOrk, on 16 January 2022 - 03:52 PM, said:

Missiles trade any semblance of pinpoint accuracy for raw damage output, the missile spread and travel time help to balance their big damage numbers.

What missiles are you having trouble dealing with?

LRM is the only ones. Its just amazing how much is really out there.

[Escef]

Justin_Xiang, on 16 January 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:

LRM is the only ones. Its just amazing how much is really out there.

It depends a lot upon, tier, time of day, and day of the week. This past late morning/early afternoon US east coast time? Saw very little LRM in low tier games. I wager by late afternoon/evening US time the lower tiers had gads of LRMs. You see that in lower tiers during prime time.

That said, there are a lot of counters for LRMs. ECM, AMS, and terrain all counter LRMs. Further, if you are mindful enough to shoot down enemy UAVs and kill any opfor units that might be dashing about TAGging and NARCing it goes a long way towards ending your problems. (UAVs only have about 10 health. Just put your crosshairs on them and watch your range indicator. When it shows something different than the rest of the background it means your direct fire energy weapons are on target. Ballistics can be a bit more complicated, and non-Streak missiles are horribly inefficient at it. Note also that range still comes into play, your micropulse lasers probably won't even scratch a UAV.)

A good way to deal with LRMs is to use terrain to your advantage and sneak up on the enemy LRMer and then kill it. Inner Sphere LRMs do no damage under 180 meters, and clan LRMs have pretty drastic damage drop off under 100 meters. (ATMs do no damage under 120 meters.) I've seen one or two lights/mediums hunt down LRMers and end them with prejudice, it's not pretty. Bad LRMers are usually pretty easy to catch isolated, too; they hang back over 800+ meters from their targets and just throw missiles at anything that even vaguely smells like a target lock.

A good LRMer is more of a problem, they tend to stay close to the pack and are more selective about what they throw missiles at. If you are prone to being in the open when engaging at mid range, a good LRMer will punish you for it. Also, sometimes you will find weird niche builds, like Orion VAs, Archer 5Ws, or Marauder II 4HPs that will chainfire small launchers at you for pure annoyance, only for you to close with them and find out that they can also out brawl most mechs swift enough to track them down. (I run an Orion VA with 4xLRM5 in chainfire to annoy people. When they get tired of my shenanigans and confront me they find out I also have 2xMPL and a UAC20.)

You generally won't find a lot of LRMers in the upper tiers, even during prime time. Direct fire weapons are just more efficient, most of these guys can move out of cover, pop a few cannon rounds at you, and be back behind cover before a missile lock even resolves, never mind the longer flight times of missiles versus cannons. I will point out, however, that some high tier players get sloppy when confronted with LRMs, because they are out of practice when it comes to dealing with them.

[KaptinOrk]

Justin_Xiang, on 16 January 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:

LRM is the only ones. Its just amazing how much is really out there.

LRMs are actually very easy to deal with once you know how to counter them, here are a few pointers:

1. Don't panic at the "INCOMING MISSILE" warning. LRMs are sandblasters, they'll slowly shave your armor instead of killing you immediately.

2. Hug cover to block them. LRMs have a high, slow arc and take time to reach you, you should be near cover anyway, so use it. Some maps are better for this than others, positioning and map awareness take time to develop.

3. Take a few points in the sensors skill tree and get 60% radar deprivation ("radar derp") to break missile locks once you dive to cover. I like to run 100% if the build can fit it.

4. Equip an AMS or several if you can work them in, a single AMS will cut down on missiles a little, but 3-4 close together on a team will really help keep the skies clear.

5. Play a 'mech with ECM and remember to take the ECM skill nodes. ECM will prevent missile locks at range for yourself and nearby allies, it's a useful tool, but take care that you don't let it become a crutch.

6. Shoot enemy UAVs. They allow LRMs to lock on out of line of sight and are worth shooting down if you're not mid-brawl.

Edited by KaptinOrk, 16 January 2022 - 09:37 PM.

[B O O M E R A N G]

With missile damage events. I usually only try to play ecm capable mechs. Then maybe more will pick srm and mrm?!

[0Jitter0]

Good advice all around, but two caveats of this point (from someone who often plays a LRMboat during the last couple of seasons).

KaptinOrk, on 16 January 2022 - 09:33 PM, said:

5. Play a 'mech with ECM and remember to take the ECM skill nodes. ECM will prevent missile locks at range for yourself and nearby allies, it's a useful tool, but take care that you don't let it become a crutch.

A ) Specifically on the crutch aspect, hostile ECM, BAP and (most importantly) TAG can break ECM. Too often I've seen ECM mechs just walking across the open ground thinking that, just because they're not immediately targettable, they're invincible. And then they rage quit because someone TAGged them, resulting in half the enemy team's firepower in their faces.

B ) ECM (or lack of missile lock in general) also doesn't mitigate actual damage, leading to:
- if you get the "incoming missile" warning, and you can move, even a little - move. "Incoming missile" disappearing just means that the salvo is flying to your last known position. If the enemy LRMboat has target decay skilled (and any remotely competent one will), then just breaking lock and sitting there is not sufficient.
- don't forget about blindfire. If you're rushing even a pure IS LRMboat while cored you might get yourself killed by not torso twisting. Same applies to static sniping.

Edited by 0Jitter0, 17 January 2022 - 06:27 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Oh noes, the LRMs are coming! Whatever shall I do???

[Curccu]

tns-5s No lurms unless you get hit by PPCs or play silly.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Curccu, on 17 January 2022 - 09:41 AM, said:

tns-5s No lurms unless you get hit by PPCs or play silly.

I killed a build like that over the weekend with this Highlander. Boy was he mad. Sorry pal, LRMs can be dumb-fired and I fight up with the brawlers in that thing!

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 January 2022 - 09:45 AM, said:

I killed a build like that over the weekend with this Highlander. Boy was he mad. Sorry pal, LRMs can be dumb-fired and I fight up with the brawlers in that thing!

Sure you can plob alpha of lurms from close range and hit but not get sky darkening rain of lurms and brawl range is very much not right one to be in that mech either

[ScrapIron Prime]

Curccu, on 17 January 2022 - 09:51 AM, said:

Sure you can plob alpha of lurms from close range and hit but not get sky darkening rain of lurms and brawl range is very much not right one to be in that mech either

What can I say... mistakes were made.

[Gagis]

Relishcakes, on 16 January 2022 - 04:58 PM, said:

In the TT you can spot for a mech and fire indirect.

If and only if you have TAG or NARC and special guided ammunition.

Tabletop LRM behave more like MRM in MWO do.

Indirect fire has no place in multiplayer games, but its unfortunately too late to redesign that part of MWO. Maybe LRM will be designed better suited for PvP for the next iteration of MW if one ever comes.

[Escef]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 January 2022 - 09:45 AM, said:

I killed a build like that over the weekend with this Highlander. Boy was he mad. Sorry pal, LRMs can be dumb-fired and I fight up with the brawlers in that thing!

If you're willing to lose a ton of ammo and a heat sink (and trim some leg armor), you can swap the 2xML to 2xMPL and the engine to a 325LFE. https://mwo.nav-alph...98f10e_HGN-733P The higher groundspeed might be worth it, YMMV.

Gagis, on 17 January 2022 - 10:00 AM, said:

If and only if you have TAG or NARC and special guided ammunition.

Nope, still wrong. EDIT: Total Warfare page 111, if you want to refresh your memory.

Edited by Escef, 17 January 2022 - 10:26 AM.

[Apteko]

Hmm, that is some pretty different perspective. I probably would create something like this: https://mwo.nav-alph...92e27a_HGN-733P

[ScrapIron Prime]

Escef, on 17 January 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

If you're willing to lose a ton of ammo and a heat sink (and trim some leg armor), you can swap the 2xML to 2xMPL and the engine to a 325LFE. https://mwo.nav-alph...98f10e_HGN-733P The higher groundspeed might be worth it, YMMV.

The pulse lasers have a lower effective range, though. The key to Artemis LRMs for this guy is engaging with all weapons at 300-400 meters and having the heat capacity and ammo to keep it up.

[Escef]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 January 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

The pulse lasers have a lower effective range, though. The key to Artemis LRMs for this guy is engaging with all weapons at 300-400 meters and having the heat capacity and ammo to keep it up.

Frankly, swapping the mediums to pulses was done because there was leftover tonnage and 0 crit space. Could keep the regular mediums, up the leg armor, and swap the TC1 for a second jet. My primary concern was the ground speed. That's a big reason why my BLR-1S LRMboat runs a 340XL instead of the 300STD I originally had in it, it just couldn't keep up with the more mobile battles with the 300, it would become irrelevant.

Edited by Escef, 17 January 2022 - 11:58 AM.