93 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

katoult, on 10 February 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

I wish i had video from a particular shotcalled Old Polar Domination match a while ago in which a Corsair was the first to crest the hill - before getting insta-deleted three seconds later by 460 LRMs hitting him simultaneously.

And that was considerably before #ToBeClear.

Wish I had few hours of video of the evening Polar was released, we might have played group queue whole evening with 2x LRM assaults and NARC ACH...
Funny part we had one of our comp opponent group against us in their shiny meta assaults like 7 times a row and of course because we are nice people we had to prioritize their team leader and then rest of the team every game .
1st time they happened to be on same side as us they TKed us instantly when game started .

[MW Waldorf Statler]

katoult, on 10 February 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

I wish i had video from a particular shotcalled Old Polar Domination match a while ago in which a Corsair was the first to crest the hill - before getting insta-deleted three seconds later by 460 LRMs hitting him simultaneously.

And that was considerably before #ToBeClear.

smart players wait without exposing themselves and lure the opponent into their firing line ,typical fail of the Corsair player...easy prey ,when the enemy charge in the ambush.
when now the team not rush the LRM boats who seeing thats not have high DPS Weapons by 480 LRMs...and dies one by one its the second fail

one Team make more errors and the other wins,its the reality in each Battle

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 10 February 2022 - 05:54 AM.

[RUSTY RASTIL]

I am unable to use lurms at all, constantly loosing lock on from indirect fire makes me rage (no blame on teammates) and using them in direct fire i feel like a moron staring at enemy to keep my lock instead of twisting which then results in me getting cored out. On top of that ecm is super popular, and if i dare to play a lurmer for a change matchmaker makes sure enemy team has at least 2 corsairs and a kit fox. I'll stick to my PPFLD just for reliability.

[ScrapIron Prime]

KOKO MORENO said:

1644503099[/url]' post='6445216']
I am unable to use lurms at all, constantly loosing lock on from indirect fire makes me rage (no blame on teammates) and using them in direct fire i feel like a moron staring at enemy to keep my lock instead of twisting which then results in me getting cored out. On top of that ecm is super popular, and if i dare to play a lurmer for a change matchmaker makes sure enemy team has at least 2 corsairs and a kit fox. I'll stick to my PPFLD just for reliability.

Yeah, indirect fire is a pretty rough ride sometimes, more so above Tier 4 when folks are better at using cover and maneuvering. I stick to using lurms at under 500m when possible so I can dead fire them along with a significant laser barrage and I tend to use tanky builds like an Archer Tempest or a Highlander that can stare long enough to hold a lock without evaporating.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 10 February 2022 - 08:28 AM.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Curccu, on 10 February 2022 - 05:45 AM, said:

1st time they happened to be on same side as us they TKed us instantly when game started .

come on, a TK between 'frenemies' .. is the most love you can get out of mwo ;-)
I fondly remember FW matches where "thinning down your own herd" was a sign of good manners if you where 'up' in the teamwork/skill-department, and a friendly alpha-in-the-back now and then gave SO many matches the necessary fun and spice, with lots of laughs and giggles in teamspeak.
ah.. the good ol' times..

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 10 February 2022 - 02:55 PM.

[JudauAshta]

KOKO MORENO, on 10 February 2022 - 06:24 AM, said:

I am unable to use lurms at all, constantly loosing lock on from indirect fire makes me rage (no blame on teammates) and using them in direct fire i feel like a moron staring at enemy to keep my lock instead of twisting which then results in me getting cored out. On top of that ecm is super popular, and if i dare to play a lurmer for a change matchmaker makes sure enemy team has at least 2 corsairs and a kit fox. I'll stick to my PPFLD just for reliability.

lurm is a gimmick/niche weapon and will always be lol

yay it sucks for direct fire, just take atms..

[foamyesque]

Honestly, one of my favourite mechs to play is just an LRM30 + quad ERML Catapult C1. Lots of people underestimate it, but it's very mobile with a big engine and triple JJs, has solid precision laser output, and the LRMs can contribute at all stages of the match. The range quirk means the ERMLs can be fired alongside the LRMs for a fairly substantial range bracket. Helps out if you put an AMS on, too.

It's a lot of fun catching out people who assume you can't shoot them. Lights in particular can be guilty of assuming ECM is an invincible shield

[PocketYoda]

ScrapIron Prime, on 08 February 2022 - 09:11 PM, said:

Using what, a standard engine? You can run that loadout on a much lighter chassis if you’re clan. It’s about right for an IS mech, though.

Supernovas are solid for clan mech and can take the brawling. Lighter mechs cannot.

[East Indy]

Bud Crue, on 28 January 2022 - 07:31 AM, said:

the "stand in back under ECM and fire ERLLs at a profile half way across the map" that seems to be the norm for more and more players these days

Is it, really? That's a shame.

There's always been a deep divide between players on what 'Mech combat should be: mixing it up rock-'em-sock-'em, or shoot-from-cover military sim. Although sniping and indirect LRMing have inverted skill floors and ceilings, both follow an exclusionary playstyle where the intent is to maintain as uneven an interaction as possible — whereas CQC requires frequent or even constant mutual LOS and exchange, instead focusing on attrition. Both players feel like they made a decent choice of loadout and had a reasonable chance to win. It's the reason why you'll see "great brawl" in post-game comments. Indirect playstyles should be niche roles; enabling the pixel-hunting you're describing was a mistake.

[panzer1b]

My main pet peve with LRMs in general is that if you build it as a hybrid direct fire mech (stack of ERMLs coupled with LRMs) is that you are essentially sacrificing quality of either weapon system, and if you dont use the indirect fire of LRMs you might as well have brought just about any other direct fire wepon and gotten better results out of it in direct fire mode.

Even direct fire, LRMs need a lock (which is easier said then done when the enemy just pokes out of cover for 2-3 secs), their damage is potato (even a LRM-80 is going to waste some of that 80 dmg, cant be alphad without GH, vulnurable to AMS, ect), and worst of all even if the damage is so-so, the weapons spread so badly ive had countless of games that a cherry red open CT assault ate 2 volleys of 80 LRMs and somehow didnt die? I mean thats how pathetic the damage of the LRMs is, and dont even waste your time shooting at light mechs, those will evade like 80% of the damage by moving sideways to the LRM stream.

While i understand why it was done (appease T5), i seriously feel that nerfing indirect fire, the one and ONLY selling point for LRMs in my experience, was a very badchoice since they were never all that powerful outside of 12 mans on maps like boreal/old polar that bring a good NARC light and coordinate their fire. Frankly, even in those cases it was possible to win by just pushing into the LRM boaters provided the team didnt panick outright\, usually if it wasnt a premade in FP they panicked and dropped one at a time, otherwise it was a 50/50 depending on skill levels.

They need to seriously buff the direct spread to make them remotely useful, mechs are more accurate with a bloody LB-20 at 500m then a LRM at 200...

[ScrapIron Prime]

JudauAshta, on 13 February 2022 - 06:16 PM, said:

another problem with lurm is they promote lazy slob and selfish playstyle where you sit at the back while team melts..

Which, as has been stated already, tends to self-correct around Tier 3. This tactic loses effectiveness the more skilled the opponent the LRM player is facing.

[katoult]

East Indy, on 12 February 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

whereas CQC requires frequent or even constant mutual LOS and exchange, instead focusing on attrition.

What you're describing is not CQC, but instead trading. Trading can be done over virtually any distance, and is to some extent the dominant playstyle right now (with the reservation that this depends on skill levels of either side).

In CQC you do not focus on attrition. You go all-in.

JudauAshta, on 13 February 2022 - 06:16 PM, said:

another problem with lurm is they promote lazy slob and selfish playstyle where you sit at the back while team melts..

To some extent the same can be said about any long-range weapon system, and most of them have been accused of that at some point even just in the last couple years. Whether it be LBX2 boats, gauss, PPCs or (currently mostly) ERLL.

panzer1b, on 13 February 2022 - 10:32 AM, said:

They need to seriously buff the direct spread to make them remotely useful, mechs are more accurate with a bloody LB-20 at 500m then a LRM at 200...

I would not necessarily agree there. Checking into my stats and accounting for cooldown, for me personally a LRM20 has an effective average max output of 101 dmg/minute. A LBX-20 ends up at 132 dmg/minute average max output.
I'd consider that sufficiently balanced for the difference in range profile.

[foamyesque]

The other thing about LRMs is that they're by far the easiest weapon system to coordinate fire with, which is a very powerful advantage. All you need is one person with a lock -- could be anyone, including one of the LRM machines -- and everyone with LRMs on the map can fire on that person and ruin their whole day. That advantage is why LRMs have so many things set up to degrade their effectiveness.

[w0qj]

Well, that's my LRM pet peeve; team members increase chance of Win if everyone presses "R" to lock target, and LRM boats can rain indirect fire on locked target, right?

Actually few players press "R" to lock target, and on the rare occasion they do this, only for themselves.
When asking other team members to press "R" to help lock target, some would flat out say "No, get your own target locks".

Again, do they want to increase the chances of team Win or not?

foamyesque, on 14 February 2022 - 03:20 PM, said:

The other thing about LRMs is that they're by far the easiest weapon system to coordinate fire with, which is a very powerful advantage. All you need is one person with a lock -- could be anyone, including one of the LRM machines -- and everyone with LRMs on the map can fire on that person and ruin their whole day. That advantage is why LRMs have so many things set up to degrade their effectiveness.

Edited by w0qj, 14 February 2022 - 08:18 PM.

[katoult]

w0qj, on 14 February 2022 - 08:17 PM, said:

Actually few players press "R" to lock target, and on the rare occasion they do this, only for themselves.
When asking other team members to press "R" to help lock target, some would flat out say "No, get your own target locks".

The funny part is that it tends to be exactly those people who then later on spam the "help" button via command wheel repeatedly.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Relying on the teammates for LRMs results in most LRMs ending up in the backcountry because you can't know how long the mate will have a LOS to target or need to take cover themselves.

LRMs are a weapon for firing at targets that other weapons can't reach or hit, but with a lot of counterstrike to balance it out, and damage that spreads across all zones when the enemy twists, no noobtube for "let me go wear by my team.Fire with LRMs up 500m have a high risk for a Terraforming Weapon

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 15 February 2022 - 02:34 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 15 February 2022 - 02:29 AM, said:

Relying on the teammates for LRMs results in most LRMs ending up in the backcountry because you can't know how long the mate will have a LOS to target or need to take cover themselves.

LRMs are a weapon for firing at targets that other weapons can't reach or hit, but with a lot of counterstrike to balance it out, and damage that spreads across all zones when the enemy twists, no noobtube for "let me go wear by my team.Fire with LRMs up 500m have a high risk for a Terraforming Weapon

And when you think about it, its really no different than "spray and pray" with a rotary autocannon. If you keep firing as the target is going behind cover and put a lot of rounds into the hillside... same thing. You just have less indication with LRMs that the target is about to blink out.

Unless you use them mainly direct fire!

[JudauAshta]

upon further play testing why do atms feel worse than lrms now?? or is it just me??

i take back my previous statement about atms

[w0qj]

ATM basically lost its IDF (indirect fire), and someone else said that any target over 500m is better off using LRM instead.

I use LRM on my Clan mechs now, and not ATM
(At least Clan LRM does small damage when target is <180m)

JudauAshta, on 15 February 2022 - 12:17 PM, said:

upon further play testing why do atms feel worse than lrms now?? or is it just me??

i take back my previous statement about atms

[katoult]

w0qj, on 15 February 2022 - 12:26 PM, said:

ATM basically lost its IDF (indirect fire), and someone else said that any target over 500m is better off using LRM instead.

Well, technically using ATMs above about 475m (or wherever they set the dropoff to 1 dmg nowadays) were always the worse choice over LRMs due to the damage falloff.

ATMs can still be "looped", however the higher incidence of ECM means you're more likely to lose locks faster, which for that playstyle isn't particularly good.