Backgroud Defragmentation
#1
Posted 12 May 2022 - 01:55 PM
That does not cost anything as the Client is writen so secure (lol) that it need Admin-rights anywas ...
Starting a BG-Defrag is realy no concern for MWO files...
Regards
#2
Posted 12 May 2022 - 02:02 PM
#3
Posted 12 May 2022 - 02:05 PM
#4
Posted 12 May 2022 - 02:37 PM
#5
Posted 12 May 2022 - 09:36 PM
#6
Posted 13 May 2022 - 01:00 AM
#7
Posted 13 May 2022 - 01:37 AM
As for defragmenting the MWO caches on a HDD? Do you really want PGI to code such a tool instead of defragmenting with one of the already availible defragmentation tools that were programmed for that exact purpose and will be able to defrag the entire HDD if it's really fragmented that badly that your MWO cache also suffers?
#8
Posted 13 May 2022 - 04:41 AM
1. Try to delete unwanted Steam games installed but no longer playing:
Start the Steam program, and in the menu:
[Steam]>>[Settings]>>[Downloads]>>[Steam_Library_Folder]
Browse to see which games can be deleted.
FYI, MWO occupies 22+ GB of space!
2. There are many Windows utilities out there that claim to search for & suggest things you can safely delete to save HDD space!
3. Move your music/movie/video files to an external USB thumbstick like below, to save HDD space:
(remember to do data backup!)
www.lexar.com/en/product/lexar-jumpdrive-s47-usb-3-1-flash-drive
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Like others have said, seriously consider to switch to SSD (solid state drive) instead of HDD hard drive.
Much faster performance, and you never have to worry about defrag anymore (in fact, never defrag your SSD!).
As long as you have enough RAM (I define this as 32 GB RAM nowadays) to prevent use of paging/swap files,
and your SSD has ample space (I define this as 50% full and maximum 80% full), your system would fly playing any game, and not just MWO!
Edited by w0qj, 13 May 2022 - 05:24 AM.
#9
Posted 13 May 2022 - 01:32 PM
LordNothing, on 12 May 2022 - 09:36 PM, said:
I'm using six seagate 2tb nas hdd with four of them in raid 0 and two as single mass storage drives so I typically run a defrag overnight after a lot of stuff has been installed or copied over. I have many many many movies and other large file size items that would be very cost inefficient to store on ssd or nvme. If you don't need supah fast access or transfer times then quality hdd are sill the king of mass storage. Plus the raid 0 array is still as fast as a typical ssd on sequential reads so the bulk of my games go on that with only the most needy going to the nvme like open world games which stream content as you play.
#10
Posted 13 May 2022 - 03:42 PM
Meep Meep, on 13 May 2022 - 01:32 PM, said:
I'm using six seagate 2tb nas hdd with four of them in raid 0 and two as single mass storage drives so I typically run a defrag overnight after a lot of stuff has been installed or copied over. I have many many many movies and other large file size items that would be very cost inefficient to store on ssd or nvme. If you don't need supah fast access or transfer times then quality hdd are sill the king of mass storage. Plus the raid 0 array is still as fast as a typical ssd on sequential reads so the bulk of my games go on that with only the most needy going to the nvme like open world games which stream content as you play.
i don't see me running anything but nvme drives on my daily driver. i got 4tb across 2 drives. i just moved up from 1.5tb so i have a lot of headroom now. been using ssds so long i havent had to defrag a computer in over a decade. i do have a hard drive plugged into my router as a poor man's nas. it mostly serves as media storage and backup. i plan on eventually having a nas proper in raid1 at some point.
i always wondered about how big datacenters manage their defrag operations when they have literally hundreds of high capacity drives in high redundancy servers (multiple drive failures required for data loss). i figure at scale you would just pull the drive, pit in a clean drive, and let the array repopulate a new drive. secure erase the fragmented drive and put it back into rotation. these aren't exactly the kind of systems you want to take offline for maintenance and i cant imagine background defrag operations being good for performance.
#11
Posted 13 May 2022 - 07:31 PM
LordNothing, on 13 May 2022 - 03:42 PM, said:
Data centers don't use normal hdd they use specialized nas drives that have extra functions like on the fly defragmentation on idle cycles which greatly reduces the need for a complete defrag. Also data centers that rely on hhd typically are storing static files that never change so once they are compacted you don't need to touch them again. The downtimes you see are typically for the storage that has dynamic data and you basically have to defrag them all at once. But more and more centers are switching to ssd and nvme for their dynamic data storage since its far better suited to the constant reads and writes and how the flash memory has greatly increased in write cycles.
#12
Posted 15 May 2022 - 05:26 PM
The client must run in admin mode any ways, so PGI could also use the internal windows library to make a defrag of the fragmented files of the MWO-Dire.
Dont be afraid, they can also ask the libraray if it is HD or SSD.
AND even DEFRAG on SSD is not that dangerous as written, I have researched that, and there is also an MS paper some where about that, and they do that anyways (every time MS makes an update, they defrag the core files even on SSD)
The win to defrag SSD come only for the (some) games up to 3 Seconds, but convert that for the HD and you see why PGI should implement that defrag after update for the HD players.
Regards.
Edited by Seelenlos, 15 May 2022 - 05:33 PM.
#13
Posted 15 May 2022 - 10:17 PM
Edited by Meep Meep, 15 May 2022 - 10:18 PM.
#14
Posted 15 May 2022 - 11:33 PM
Edited by LordNothing, 15 May 2022 - 11:34 PM.
#15
Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:05 AM
Meep Meep, on 15 May 2022 - 10:17 PM, said:
Hi Meep Meep,
google like: defrag comparision ssd i/o access time or something.
There should be a paper on that with different defraggers etc.
There you see also that the SSD defrag is not that deadly as written.
I am now using Primocache (the nearest thing like good old smartdrive) and auslogic 8. portable to defrag ALL my disks.
It has something to do with the cell call algorythm or something... too technical-electical
Regards
here this was the frst:
https://helpdeskgeek...-defrag-an-ssd/
That being said, the Windows 10 defragmentation tool knows the difference between solid state drives and mechanical drives. Instead of automatically defragmenting an SSD, it instead uses the “TRIM” command, which is a specialized SSD optimization command,
AND don't forget even the trim-command is not necessary, as long as no data is to be written!
So trimming is also "wear" on drive is not necessary and only done automaticaly.
https://condusiv.com...drives-or-ssds/
Edited by Seelenlos, 16 May 2022 - 08:15 AM.
#17
Posted 16 May 2022 - 08:46 AM
#18
Posted 16 May 2022 - 09:00 AM
Frequently accessed files are cached in your ram, you can play around with that for some tiny gains.
If I were OP I'd wait for a sale and get an inexpensive SATA ssd just for games.
#19
Posted 16 May 2022 - 10:06 AM
LordNothing, on 15 May 2022 - 11:33 PM, said:
Newer versions of OSes can and - to a certain extend - do. Particularly the Windows OS familiy ever since Windows 8 defaults to "storage optimization" via TRIM whenever they detect an SSD that supports that particular command. However, even current Windows 10 and 11 installations will - by default - truly "defragment" SSDs on a monthly basis in the background by design and it's not entirely a bad design or rather a response to the limitation of current Windows default file system NTFS which can only take a certain amount of fragmentation without performance impacts. This certainly does impact the wear leveling of the device in question in the long run but is most of the time better than the alternative.
The general advice however remains: Do not (manually) defragment SSDs - particularly on Windows based systems - because you're unlikely to see any performance increases and you're just adding to the wear of the device because your OS has likely already done what is needed as part of a background job on a monthly basis.
TheCaptainJZ, on 16 May 2022 - 08:43 AM, said:
As stated above: No Windows doesn't truly do that.
TheCaptainJZ, on 16 May 2022 - 08:43 AM, said:
Most other OSes tend to use file systems that are less prone to fragmentation in the first place and - provided that we're not talking first gen SSDs and / or rather "old" OS versions - they'll indeed not defragment but instead optimize via "TRIM" and let the SSDs controller do their job ... which brings me back to my earlier comment:
Why would anyone want PGI - as a game development company that is specialized in higher level programming of gaming software (of often heavily critiqued quality) - to program a low level hardware tool like a defragmentation program?! Having to grant administrator priviledges to the MWO update routine (a.k.a. "update bot") is certainly not a good reason or excuse for something like that.
#20
Posted 16 May 2022 - 10:30 AM
Seelenlos, on 16 May 2022 - 08:05 AM, said:
I am aware of the testing that shows defragging an ssd might give an incremental boost to i/o but those are very niche cases and not really applicable for consumer use. Those links you provided also only tell about the differences between hdd and ssd and clearly state that defragging is counter productive on ssd. What the trim command does is reset memory blocks marked for deletion so that if they are written over there is no performance loss. It doesn't hurt the cell in any way or cause extra wear and is a crucial step in the ssd garbage collection routine.
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