27 replies to this topic

[sosegado]

You read that right..

Cadet mechs are Over Powered [On Purpose]!

Hear me out...

We all want a bigger population but the learning curve is somewhat steep.

So let's do what we can to flatten it a bit.

The following can replace trial mechs or work in tandem with them.

Every new account should start with 1 mech of each weight class, (maybe voted on by the community) that is considered the best the game has to offer at that point, with the meta weapons loadout already chosen, (maybe voted on by the community or cauldron).

Each of these mechs should also come with the meta skill nodes already checked, (maybe voted on by the community or the cauldron).

The Cadet can't change anything about these mechs although they can view everything so they get a feel for where the veterans are, and they have to play them 'as is' While they have them!

These mechs should be available to the Cadet for the first 40 games (more or less I guess that number can also be flexible). I chose 40 because that gives the Cadet the opportunity to drop each mech a maximum of 10 times each!

After the set amount of games these mechs are removed from the account; whether the Cadet played them or not; and the new pilot is on their own from there.

Maybe we can have each of these mechs boosted with the Cadet Quirk which makes each of them do 15% more damage and increases the armor by 15%?

Of course this is going to be exploited by the Seal Clubbers but that's not the point.
The point is to draw in new recruits by making the beginning of the game a bit easier.

Anyway, I'm just brainstorming here, Maybe others have a better idea, but this is what I came up with.

Cya on the battlefield!

Edited by Stab Wound, 19 May 2022 - 03:54 AM.

[w0qj]

Actually me thinks that it is the Camo that makes the cadet mech OP

[Ignatius Audene]

Omg no! If u introduce this, players can get stuck on their account because they invested their starter money wrong. And handicap dmg/armor is baaaaaaaaad mechanics. Full prebuild skill tree->ok better new player xp. But the required changes are probably already to big to programm cost efficient.

[Hobbles v]

I think the simpler solution would just be to give trial mechs skills.

The better but probably more labour intensive solution is to redo all the stock loadouts. They dont need to be meta, but they shouldn't be the under armoured bracket build nightmares they are now.

Edited by Hobbles v, 24 May 2022 - 06:34 AM.

[LordNothing]

i kind of wanted to see trials go away in favor of free mechs rewarded as unlocks for progressing through the cadet tree. you start them in a select semi-meta is heavy. every 5 or so levels in the cadet tree hand out an is medium, assault, and light, in that order, followed by clan mechs in the same sequence. this might also unlock a tutorial for each class and perhaps tutorials for clan tech as well. mechs can come with a variety of loadouts to introduce weapons systems one by one. the mechs are given a cadet tag that means that the mechs are locked pending the completion of the associated tutorials. at which point they can build them however they like as well as skill them.

but pgi decided to just hand out a free mechs every month in events instead. this kind of does the same thing without needing to make tutorial content. but its also not good for npe. i actually wonder if npe is really relevant as the focus seems to be more on player retention than new player recruitment these days.

[w4ldO]

what about personal events without time limits for new accounts that gives you a free mech on each weight class?

play 10 matches with a <weight class> mech
reward: mech x, mechbay, 5m c-bills

[TheCaptainJZ]

Hobbles v, on 19 May 2022 - 05:41 AM, said:

I think the simpler solution would just be to give trial mechs skills.

Yeah, is this possible? It's been suggested before. It would be the easiest way to boost the performance with what sounds like the least amount of effort. And everyone can use them. The whole idea of a trail mech being weaker was to incentivize players to buy mechs with their own money. I don't think that's the paradigm we're dealing with anymore, 10 years later. What will get people to pay money is if they want to support the game so let's make it as fun as we can.

[caravann]

They could reduce the access of trial mech to one of each class who is updated each week.
Even the trial cadets will have an unique experience. But maybe not 40-45tons who are very specialized for the pilot.
Same goes for 80-85tons, them don't play as assaults. Once you have 12 mechs you can mix them up every week.

[RickySpanish]

Why not just rotate trial 'Mechs like Caravann said. Give 'em skill layouts preselected to match the builds, make the loadout locked, and change each week. But yeah, I agree with the premise - cadets ought to have the skills available so they know what to build toward.

Edited by RickySpanish, 20 May 2022 - 02:18 PM.

[w0qj]

I've suggested this before, just add generic build skill points to max out Skill Tree in the free Trial (Champion) mechs.
New players would have more confidence in investing time in MWO!

During previous Champion Events, even MWO veterans (some in T1 too) were complaining that "being forced to play trial Champion mechs... their armor feels paper-thin" (ok, I paraphrased, but you get the idea)...

~Max out these: Survival & Operations & Heat_Gen nodes in FirePower Skill Trees!

TheCaptainJZ, on 20 May 2022 - 07:37 AM, said:

Yeah, is this possible? It's been suggested before. It would be the easiest way to boost the performance with what sounds like the least amount of effort. And everyone can use them. The whole idea of a trail mech being weaker was to incentivize players to buy mechs with their own money. I don't think that's the paradigm we're dealing with anymore, 10 years later. What will get people to pay money is if they want to support the game so let's make it as fun as we can.

[The6thMessenger]

LordNothing, on 19 May 2022 - 06:06 AM, said:

i kind of wanted to see trials go away in favor of free mechs rewarded as unlocks for progressing through the cadet tree. you start them in a select semi-meta is heavy. every 5 or so levels in the cadet tree hand out an is medium, assault, and light, in that order, followed by clan mechs in the same sequence. this might also unlock a tutorial for each class and perhaps tutorials for clan tech as well. mechs can come with a variety of loadouts to introduce weapons systems one by one. the mechs are given a cadet tag that means that the mechs are locked pending the completion of the associated tutorials. at which point they can build them however they like as well as skill them.

but pgi decided to just hand out a free mechs every month in events instead. this kind of does the same thing without needing to make tutorial content. but its also not good for npe. i actually wonder if npe is really relevant as the focus seems to be more on player retention than new player recruitment these days.

Why not just give away the champion mechs themselves for free?

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

imo the real trick here is to separate t5-beginners longer and harder from the sharkbay.

example: let em play 4vs4, while they still get the cadet-bonus. exclude anything without that bonus.
that's 25? games were they can catch up with the basics of that game, without being just food.

we could still roll from there with another round of boni (26-50?), where they are in the 12v12, but get a 10% bonus on everything (just spitballing here) or lets say ANY skillnode to whatever mechs they pilot (to not punish them for getting their own mechs).


still, in the "current" way matches are played, it's imo more of a problem to actually keep people interested in playing;
had 5matches last sunday (with weeks of no-mwo before), had no fun at all in the first, and it still got worse in every match thereafter.
-which is a sad state of affair, since I love the mechs - just can't stomach the way people pilot them in QP.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 21 May 2022 - 06:18 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Hobbles v, on 19 May 2022 - 05:41 AM, said:

The better but probably more labour intensive solution is to redo all the stock loadouts.thwydont need to be meta, no it they shouldn't be the under armoured bracket build nightmares they are now.

Noooo, not an option. The "stock builds" are the Record Sheet configurations (adapted for double-armor points, forward facing weapons, and no melee) that define each 'mech. Hardpoint inflation is something PGI took upon themselves to increase variety, especially among some 'mechs that vary very little from their original factory build (Wolfhound, Black Knight, etc), but the weapon selection, location, armor distribution, equipment, etc, is all defined by the record sheets that describe each 'mech.

For example, the RFL-3N Rifleman. Notoriously hot-running and poorly armored.


The solution I've proposed many times for this is to develop a "tech tree" of sorts, that assigns each 'mech to the faction where it was most common, or assigns it a "generic" label so it shows up in all the factions. From there, a new player is prompted to join a faction, and gets to pick from any of the 'mechs available to that faction. They can't customize their 'mechs until they purchase one to own, but they can pick from all the newer designs that have DHS, etc, and aren't stuck with just the old SHS variants.

Part of the reason stock builds get hated on so much is that the power creep in this game is extremely real, and has left them very far behind. Speed Creep could also be said to be a thing, such that slower 'mechs are quite literally getting left behind, as well.

[YouKnowNothing]

Stab Wound, on 19 May 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

You read that right..

Cadet mechs are Over Powered [On Purpose]!

Hear me out...

Please explain what Cadet mechs are, (I assume you're referring to trial mechs but who the hell knows) and how exactly are they OP...

Stab Wound, on 19 May 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

Every new account should start with 1 mech of each weight class, (maybe voted on by the community) that is considered the best the game has to offer at that point, with the meta weapons loadout already chosen, (maybe voted on by the community or cauldron).

Each of these mechs should also come with the meta skill nodes already checked, (maybe voted on by the community or the cauldron).

The Cadet can't change anything about these mechs although they can view everything so they get a feel for where the veterans are, and they have to play them 'as is' While they have them!

How exactly is this different from the current trial mechs, though (except from the skill tree)...

Stab Wound, on 19 May 2022 - 03:42 AM, said:

Maybe we can have each of these mechs boosted with the Cadet Quirk which makes each of them do 15% more damage and increases the armor by 15%?

This is just... no.

[Knownswift]

C337Skymaster, on 21 May 2022 - 06:35 AM, said:

Noooo, not an option.

Of course it's an option. 99% of stock mechs are garbage in this game, and only because "muh boooardgame!"

Super weak. Super bad for NPE. Grind out cbills for your first mech with the garbage free mech. Then whatever you buy is worse than the trial you just had.

Power creep is not something MWO invented in this franchise, it is literally baked in.

Edited by Knownswift, 21 May 2022 - 08:48 AM.

[sosegado]

YouKnowNothing, on 21 May 2022 - 08:16 AM, said:

Please explain what Cadet mechs are, (I assume you're referring to trial mechs but who the hell knows) and how exactly are they OP...




How exactly is this different from the current trial mechs, though (except from the skill tree)...




This is just... no.

Come on...you're better than this!

You understand perfectly well what I'm talking about.

I know you have ideas of your own on how to make this game better and easier for our Cadets.

Let's hear some of them.

You don't have to be so negative, you can contribute.

There isn't going to be a better time then now.

Edited by Stab Wound, 21 May 2022 - 10:55 AM.

[YouKnowNothing]

Stab Wound, on 21 May 2022 - 10:49 AM, said:

Come on...you're better than this!

You understand perfectly fine what I'm talking about.

I know you have ideas of your own on how to make this game better and easier for our Cadets.

Let's hear some of them.

You don't have to be so negative, you can contribute.

There isn't going to be a better time then now.

This sounds like I've just been "managed"...
Empty words, no actual concrete answer...
Just passing the workload to other people.

[C337Skymaster]

Knownswift, on 21 May 2022 - 08:47 AM, said:

Of course it's an option. 99% of stock mechs are garbage in this game, and only because "muh boooardgame!"

Super weak. Super bad for NPE. Grind out cbills for your first mech with the garbage free mech. Then whatever you buy is worse than the trial you just had.

Power creep is not something MWO invented in this franchise, it is literally baked in.

It is, but not to this degree, and there are other mechanics also baked in to counteract it which PGI has refused (or been too incompetent) to implement, such as matches balanced around tech, rather than sheer numbers of players. (10 v 12, instead of always 12 v 12, etc).

Now we're baking speed tweak into the quirks, so that a 'mech can double-down on speed tweak. Most light 'mechs were "fast" for going 81 or 97 kph. 130-150 kph was "blinding" speed, not "just a normal light 'mech", and typically traded not being able to shoot anything, but being able to see what was going on and report back without getting hit. You know: "scouting".

For the record, I play stock 'mechs exclusively, and I search out and recreate missing 'mechs from record sheets. Clan 'mechs don't need any help at all. 90% of Clan Mechs are perfectly fine in their stock configs. The few problems that do arise on Clan 'mechs often come from the fact that they can shoot way faster than they're supposed to, and heat sinks can't keep up. For that matter, that happens on a lot of IS 'mechs, too. Weapons are generating heat way faster than they're supposed to be. The overall game "moves" much faster than what the builds were built around. If we slow the whole thing down again, I suspect a lot of the basic stock builds will stand out better vs their meta counterparts. But that's not the direction we're headed...

[C337Skymaster]

Also, PGI had the perfect solution to the baked-in power creep, and quietly abandoned it for reasons that are still not clear to me. The game was originally pitched as having a real-time timeline. "One day at a time". It was going to launch with whatever date in 2012 corresponding to the same day of the year in 3048 or 3049, and was going to run in real time for as long as it ran (which would have us just about to kick off the FedCom Civil War next year). 'Mechs would debut on time. Weapons would come out on time. The map would change in real time, and contracts and battles would reflect actual conflicts within the battletech universe.

Everyone agrees that that would have been AMAZING, so why they ditched it without explanation still baffles me.

[sosegado]

YouKnowNothing, on 21 May 2022 - 10:58 AM, said:

This sounds like I've just been "managed"...
Empty words, no actual concrete answer...
Just passing the workload to other people.

Is that all you got?

"I'll just crap on someone's else's ideas and declare myself the winner?"

This is an idea thread.
I went first.
I get that you don't like it and I'm ok with that.
If you have no ideas then move along.
Everyone else in this thread appears to understand what I said and meant in my op.

This is your chance to be helpful.
And we really could use your help if you have something to contribute.