84 replies to this topic

[MechMaster059]

I'm new to the game and overall I really like all the different choices of items and weapons. They all have their pro's and con's that I'm learning about.

The one item I've noticed that seem a little odd are... targeting computers.

When I first started playing this game I just assumed that at least a Mark I computer would be standard equipment in every mech, kind of like 1 Jump Jet to soften landings and make short little maneuvers. When I look at how quickly the weight and slot usage of the various computers goes up I'm left wondering who in the hell would ever use more than like a Mark V computer? How in the hell would you fit any weapons/ammunition into a torso with a 5+ slot computer taking up space!?

The only obvious benefit these seem to give is enemy mech info reveal time reduction which is nice but if you have to choose between that and either another weapon, more ammo, or mounting an AMS what are you going to take? The Mark I computer gives such marginal benefits that I've never had one in the 1 mech that I own which I've refitted about a dozen times to try out different weapons and engines.

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I suggest improving the crit chances for all 3 categories of the Mark I computer by +0.2% giving a total of +1.6% crit chances instead of +1%. All the other Marks can progress from there in the same incremental amounts from that slightly elevated base.

I suggest making the slot progression 1 slot per 3 levels of Mark, thus only the Mark VII computer would take up 3 slots.

I suggest making the weight progression +0.5 tons per Mark after the 1 ton Mark 1 so a Mark VII computer would weigh 4 tons.

Given that skill points can be used to reduce crit chance by a massive -12%, I find it hard to understand how the changes I propose could become imbalanced.

[Curccu]

Well with some er large laser builds you use as huge tc as you can because you get more range, if you can shoot enemy while he cannot... you win.

[MechMaster059]

I guess I can see that since lasers take up relatively few slots.

Seems kind of sad to pigeon-hole computers into only being usable by very specific builds.

[pattonesque]

Larger TCs are v. good on builds that want a laser range or PPC velocity buff. Something like this Warhawk is gonna be spending most of its life throwing bolts a kilometer from the enemy so any plus to velo is invaluable

https://mwo.nav-alph...34801_WHK-PRIME

[Meep Meep]

For most players a tc1 is about all they will ever use or have room for past some of the specialized sniper builds like above. For normal brawlers and skirmishers its tonnage put to better use with sinks or more weapons or a faster engine. Dunno if they need a rework since they were always a very niche equip.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

well, the 2nd thread..

I suggest you familiarize yourself a bit with the game for some time before you 'suggest' 'changing stuff'.
a lot of it will make more sense after a few couple of matches.

I 'suggest' to give it a month or 2 and THEN talk about the stuff you still don't get

[MechMaster059]

"Dunno if they need a rework since they were always a very niche equip."

Um... that's literally THE reason they need a rework.

"I 'suggest' to give it a month or 2 and THEN talk about the stuff you still don't get"

Nah, I think I'll comment now considering I've been playing computer games for decades and have a hunch about these things and this thread confirmed my hunches:

1. They're only used for sniper builds.
2. Another poster called them "very niche equip".
3. Having a computer weigh 8 tons and take up 8 slots is totally counter-intuitive and breaks immersion.

Yup, they're screaming for a rework.

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I'm used to veterans white-knighting for their games and refusing to see obvious faults with a game they love. That's why I immediately stopped playing World of Warships once I realized Destroyers would always be invisible like rogues in World of Warcraft except there's no such thing as a PvP trinket in World of Warships to deal with Destroyers like there is in World of Warcraft. I got the same "learn to play" crap from that community in my first and last post to their stupid forum and I figured, nah, I won't learn to play World of Warships, I'll just stop playing it and I left.

Edited by MechMaster059, 06 June 2022 - 03:14 PM.

[Magnus Santini]

MechMaster059, on 06 June 2022 - 11:37 AM, said:

The only obvious benefit these seem to give is enemy mech info reveal time reduction which is nice but if you have to choose between that and either another weapon, more ammo, or mounting an AMS what are you going to take? The Mark I computer

A Mark I or so fits very nicely into the slots where I am throwing out AMS systems and ammo. Targeting computers can add to your game score but AMS cannot anymore. Every teammate that takes an extra 20 spread damage or more will probably get a slightly lower score, making my achievement (?) look better to the PSR.

[LordNothing]

it would be nice if they were useful in more situations and build types. throw some missile and ballistic buffs in there as well. i like to think of it as trading tonnage for extra quirks.

[Meep Meep]

LordNothing, on 06 June 2022 - 06:26 PM, said:

it would be nice if they were useful in more situations and build types. throw some missile and ballistic buffs in there as well. i like to think of it as trading tonnage for extra quirks.

It would make the most sense to simply scrap the entire thing and redo them as targeted bonuses for a specific weapon system instead of a one stop shop that does nothing well even when you get up in the ranks. So an energy, ballistic and missile tc all with their own targeted bonuses with a smaller selection of say three versions per weapon type instead of the current setup. Also reduce slots to one but increase weight past what we have now so an energy tc 1 is one slot two tons but an e-tc 2 would be one slot but four tons.

[MechMaster059]

"redo them as targeted bonuses for a specific weapon system"

This sounds like a really good idea.

Perhaps still keep ranks 1-3 of a generic targeting computer for use on mechs with a variety of weapons on them? The generic computers could give mediocre/generalized benefits across multiple weapon types like +1.5% crit to everything whereas the specific computers could give specialized enhancements like extended target lock for missiles or something.

[Horseman]

MechMaster059, on 06 June 2022 - 11:37 AM, said:

When I first started playing this game I just assumed that at least a Mark I computer would be standard equipment in every mech, kind of like 1 Jump Jet to soften landings and make short little maneuvers.

That's your personal assumption. As always, what one assumes and what becomes the actual played meta are two different things.

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When I look at how quickly the weight and slot usage of the various computers goes up I'm left wondering who in the hell would ever use more than like a Mark V computer? How in the hell would you fit any weapons/ammunition into a torso with a 5+ slot computer taking up space!?

Depending on the mech, you may be able to shove the TC into an arm or have no hardpoints you intend to use in that torso anyway.

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The Mark I computer gives such marginal benefits that I've never had one in the 1 mech that I own which I've refitted about a dozen times to try out different weapons and engines.

Small TCs are useful for the projectile speed buff. Less so now that you can arbitrarily just dump skill points in Velocity straight away, but they still stack with it.

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I suggest making the slot progression 1 slot per 3 levels of Mark, thus only the Mark VII computer would take up 3 slots.
I suggest making the weight progression +0.5 tons per Mark after the 1 ton Mark 1 so a Mark VII computer would weigh 4 tons.

Changes that result in canon builds becoming underweight should be as few and far between as possible.

[caravann]

We only have one targeting computer, the hardest decision is to decide which of the weapon systems the targeting computer is going to benefit. Right now it buffs for = PPC velocity, Laser range and tracking lock on speed.

In practice the computers are only used for the buff of range for laser.

Snub nose ppc need increased range or ppc in general need an increase of range with help of the targeting computer since it's an energy weapon. It would reduce localization. Increases: energy weapon range.

Velocity on LRM is 200 ish while MRM 500 and rocket launcher is 400 and SRM 400 as well. ER PPC has a velocity of 1900 while normal ppc is slower. This is cauldron who witch brewed the guns.

Missiles are likely hard coded by skills that their critical value is a set in stone based on the skill point. As example of how beagle active probe and skill points interrupt with each other.

My suggestion is that we include TAG and NARC as computers. I think most want damage increases. The targeting computer increase missile damage since missiles deals 1-2 damage. Narc increase ballistics crit and TAG increase energy range.

These three components work in their category:
Narc are ballistics in mechanic, TAG is targeting scanner and targeting computers are indirectly interacting.

If you want explanation behind this magic, bullets are guided by data from the narc who tells where the armor is weakest with sonar, the Tag provide with a feedback on how much energy is needed to reach the target, energy weapons who goes up to 11 exists in the universe. The computer increase the radar and sensors to track the target and process images.

This means TAG, NARC and targeting computer have their own roles. Missiles benefit from all sources.
With a TAG, missile boats have ability to carry small lasers and fire missiles. CRIT of ballistics stack with missiles.
TAG do not increase range on energy weapons who has a range further than the range of the TAG since the target need to be tagged.

[MechMaster059]

"In practice the computers are only used for the buff of range for laser."

That seems to be the emerging consensus here. Computers clearly are a neglected component in this game.

I could see enhancing the role played by TAGs in some way. 1 ton for a laser pointer is a pretty significant price to pay. My understanding is that NARCs are tightly coupled to missile mechanics by providing a beacon for missiles to home in on.

[caravann]

MechMaster059, on 06 June 2022 - 10:17 PM, said:

"In practice the computers are only used for the buff of range for laser."

That seems to be the emerging consensus here. Computers clearly are a neglected component in this game.

I could see enhancing the role played by TAGs in some way. 1 ton for a laser pointer is a pretty significant price to pay. My understanding is that NARCs are tightly coupled to missile mechanics by providing a beacon for missiles to home in on.

Further increased range on lasers means that ER PPC or gauss do not stand a chance against ER Large laser depending on skills of the IS mech pilot or mechwarrior if you are a clanner.

1 ton is not just 1 ton in a weapon who increase range for your laser with a TAG, you get the tracking for missiles as well.
This is all to mitigate people to use missiles and ballistics and lasers instead of building their mechs like one big cannon.

Mechs come in weight classes and some mechs have increased tonnage capacity of 1-3ton that 1 ton isn't noticed.
Ferro fibrus is to increase tonnage by reducing space which most have forgotten that you'll get an extra tonnage.

Range is significant to a point but we don't want to make people liberalize on long range builds. There's no fun in ending up on a map where the enemy team is killed by LRM and ER large lasers. Missiles will get a buff by corporate players. Everyone do everything for their own gain. The only reason why any use a TAG is to provide tag for their own weapons.

NARC stacking CRIT for ballistic means that there are two sources of CRIT who stacks with each other.
TAG increasing laser RANGE means one hardpoint is reduced to make all other laser hardpoints performance increase as its max range is increased when tagging. The TAG used for tracking will make people subconsciously trying to get all advantages.
Targeting computer increasing % DAMAGE of missiles means that you deal higher damage based on how many missiles. It's compensated by the computers weight 1-8x times of a TAG and mechs have ECM.

The weapons have a canon function and it be an insult to remove it from the game.

[Gagis]

Targeting Computers stack with both mech quirks AND the skill tree, which makes them powerful when stacking matching bonuses. Buffing them can add up surprisingly hard, which makes them hard to balance. The current status where they are viable but not an auto-include is a pretty good compromise.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

ah; somebody 'just knows better', I see.
good to know, hf doing it your way @OP.

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 06 June 2022 - 07:06 PM, said:

It would make the most sense to simply scrap the entire thing and redo them as targeted bonuses for a specific weapon system instead of a one stop shop that does nothing well even when you get up in the ranks. So an energy, ballistic and missile tc all with their own targeted bonuses with a smaller selection of say three versions per weapon type instead of the current setup. Also reduce slots to one but increase weight past what we have now so an energy tc 1 is one slot two tons but an e-tc 2 would be one slot but four tons.

i figure it would be physically impossible to put a large targeting computer into a mech capable using every buff it grants. especially if you add a wider array of buffs. i often find myself using tcs on mechs with only one weapon type, an alternative to having a secondary or perhaps tertiary weapons system. trying to build a mech, a tc boat if you will, to give you every possible boost would probibly be too jack of all trades to be meta.

anyway i dont think making it do more will effect very many builds or be op. the builds that currently use it will neither lose nor gain anything. adding lock time buffs or spread reduction for example would not give anything to vomit or ppc boats that they dont already have. if you want to do some kind of mixed build with it, thats possible, but you are going to have to make choices about where your tonnage goes. worst case scenario you make mixed builds meta, and that might be a good thing.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2022 - 03:52 AM.

[Curccu]

If large TCs would be a lot better that would unbalance weight classes even more, assaults are already the best performing class and realistically only assaults can take huge TCs without paying too heavy price for it.

[LordNothing]

Curccu, on 07 June 2022 - 04:05 AM, said:

If large TCs would be a lot better that would unbalance weight classes even more, assaults are already the best performing class and realistically only assaults can take huge TCs without paying too heavy price for it.

i mean we could buff the squirrels.