Jump to content

- - - - -

No Help-Frustration!

Help Me Question New Player Feedback

11 replies to this topic

#1 Fignutz0

    Rookie

  • Giant Helper
  • 5 posts

Posted 21 June 2022 - 02:59 PM

I am annoyed I cannot find the answers to these simple questions. Been looking for a few weeks. I enjoy the game but I dont understand how you make a mech better other than skill points. It comes maxed out so you cant even upgrade weapons! Only remove multiple other weapons so you can squeeze in the one you want and are then underpowered??

WHAT are hardpoints?

WHY cant I change the middle "omnipod"? If you lose all benefits by not having the set, why would you bother buying a different omnipod piece and equip it? Seems like a RIP.

What are "classes"? Why bother buying a particular class?

ASC, DESC- WTF is that!??

Why would I sort by chassis???

Division!? WTF is that and why would I sort my buying options by THAT if I can operate any mech I buy??

Why cant you change some items in mech loadout like jump jets or engine?

Why cant I change anything in mechbay "Upgrade" ie. Armor, heat sinks, structure??

Why are jump jets 2 and 3 NOT available for purchase?? (I have, but cannot equip)

Why are there "variants" of a mech? Just give me a mech and let me fricken buy stuff for it!!!!

What is the "S" in DWF-S or the "A" in MDD-A or "H" in MDD-H, PRIME vs. PRIME(C)??

None of this is explained in any tutorial or post I've seen.

#2 Gagis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,731 posts

Posted 21 June 2022 - 09:16 PM

The stock loadouts mechs come with tend to be very poorly optimized and you can usually get much better perfrormance by stripping their equipment and filling your hardpoints with an optimal layout of weapons and equipment that each work at the same range and preferably are easy to aim together.

Hardpoints are a restriction on how many of which type of weapon your mech can carry, and which component those go to. With free building without hardpoints you'd just bring something like 15 medium lasers and as many heat sinks you can carry.

Omnimechs, mechs with omnipods, are a special kind of mech that can change their hardpoint layout by changing which pods the mech consists of. The variant of mech you are piloting sets the center one. As a downside, they cannot change engine, structure or armour type. Being able to have as many energy hardpoints as possible for example is very powerful, and the set of 8 bonuses are just a small incentive to try something less optimized.

Smaller mechs go faster and tend to be smaller and harder to hit. Lights are 20 to 35 tons, mediums are 40 to 55 tons, heavies are 60 to 75 tons and assaults are 80 to 100 tons. Heavier mechs can carry more firepower.

Ascending and descending sorting for some list.

Dunno. Check which hardpoints or quirks different variants of same chassis have?

Division of solaris arena matches each mech is allowed in. Solaris is mostly a dead mode, so don't bother.

Omnimechs cannot change engine, jets or upgrades. Normal mechs can. Omnimechs can instead change hardpoints.

-||-

Jump jet types go by weight of mech. Type 1 is 20 to 55 ton mechs and only weigh 0.5 tons, type 2 weighs 1 ton and goes on 60 to 85 ton mechs and type 3 weighs 2 tons and goes for mechs that weigh 90 to 100 tons. Mechlab shows you equipment that'd fit your current mech.

Different lore-based stock loadouts are designated as variants of same chassis and in MWO are distinguished by different hardpoints and quirk bonuses. I assume its a design choice they made early on to sell more mech packs to have them all distinct instead of just preset loadouts for same shared chassis.

DFW-PRIME, -A, -B -C etc. are variants of an omnimech chassis. Variants can be designated by other symbols too. Letters in parentheses indicate special game bonus such as champion (C) mechs getting bonus XP, Hero, (S) special (L) loyalty, (I) invasion etc. etc. all giving bonus money with the type just designating where that mech came from.

Yes, the game has pretty bad documentation. Just ask players or check online resources such as the Grimmechs database of player-made loadouts: https://grimmechs.isengrim.org/Database

Edited by Gagis, 21 June 2022 - 09:20 PM.


#3 w0qj

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Territorial
  • The Territorial
  • 3,368 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationAt your 6 :)

Posted 22 June 2022 - 04:34 AM

Hey, a warm welcome to MWO!

At least you're asking all the right questions; it took me months to ask these questions!
(I've returned to MWO after many many years of hiatus).

0. Just join an active Team (Guild), talk with them, ask them, and learn from them!
That's by far the fastest way to learn the ropes of MWO!
Especially the fine art of Mech Labbing ;)

1. Please feel free to ask your questions in the General Discussions forum!
https://mwomercs.com...eral-discussion

2. The closest thingy to an official MWO User Manual is this:
https://mwomercs.com/game/user-guide

3. Other resources fyi, since you like reading so much ;)

MechDB 2.0
http://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechs
http://mwo.nav-alpha.com/equipment
http://mwo.nav-alpha...uipment/weapons
http://mwo.nav-alpha...pment/ghostheat

GOOD
http://grimmechs.ise...ts?list=general
http://grimmechs.isengrim.org/Database
http://grimmechs.isengrim.org
(Unfortunately smurfy.de is very outdated by now)

OK
http://www.mechspecs.com

- - - - - - - - - -
There are good YouTube videos from MWO streamers who take the time to explain:

Baradul** (circa 2018 to 2020 only)
TTB
JGx D A T A

Note: ** - Recent Baradul used to explain in detail how your mech playstyle fits with your Skill Tree from 2018-2020. Recent 2021 and onwards Baradul videos are more cookie cutter style and less explanation.

- - - - - - - - - -
Good Skill Tree Video (2 Parts)

DATA's 2022 Skill Tree Guide
https://mwomercs.com...l-tree-tutorial


Sean Lang's 2022 Skill Tree Guide
https://mwomercs.com...ew-player-guide



MWO Computer Video Settings (Reshade & user.cfg)--legal stuff

http://mwomercs.com/...-editor-for-mwo
http://github.com/MrVaad/MWOConfig

- - - - - - - - - -
MWO/Cauldron Patch History since April 2021, and HSL Quirk List
http://mwomercs.com/...auldron-changes
http://www.mwocomp.com/patches

http://mwomercs.com/...-hsl-quirk-list

#4 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 22 June 2022 - 10:18 AM

Most of your questions have been answered above but I'll just try to add a little history and maybe some of the "why," if you or someone else is interested.

The game started with IS mechs only. When designing the game, PGI decided to go with a F2P model which was relatively new at the time, and definitely newer for this genre. They designed the mech system like this:
Class=weight class; light (20-35 tons), medium (40-55 tons), heavy (60-75 tons), 80-100 (assault). This comes from Battletech lore.
Chassis=mech model like Timberwolf, Catapult, Atlas, Jenner, etc. These are taken from BattleTech lore.
Variant=subtype of a chassis with designators, again, taken straight from lore (check out sarna.net as a quick source for some lore).

BattleTech lore formed the basis of everything this game. PGI has of course made numerous changes to make this game balanced and work in a real-time shooter format and be fun, and some things have been entirely their invention, but fit within the established lore.

No previous BattleTech game had used variants really. MW3 certainly didn't and you could cram as many PPCs into your mech and one-shot everyone (or something like that). MW4 had a hardpoint system. To make each variant unique, they decided on a hardpoint system and to give each variant different hardpoints in type and number and location. This was always based on the weapon loadout that variant has in lore, but in some cases, the number of hardpoints in a mech's location was artificially inflated, e.g., Jenner JR7-F has 2 medium lasers in each arm, but since the JR7-D and JR7-K variants also have 2 in each arm and a missile launcher, PGI change the F to have 3 energy hardpoints in each arm instead of two and the JR7-D has 2 missile hardpoints instead of 1. This is the same methodology they've used to create each variant.

The reason variants mattered was due to the original skill tree concept. There were 3 tiers--Basic, Elite, and Master. These were unlocked with eXPerience gained each match (which we still have) but did not cost any C-bills (which the current skill tree also requires). You could unlock the basic tier which had 8 skills right off the bat after buying a mech (You started the game with no mechs, no money, and only 4 stock Trial Mechs to use. It was NOT such a great experience). To unlock any Elite skills, however, you had to own another variant of the same chassis and I think you had to unlock all the Basic skills on both. To Master a mech, you had to own 3 variants and complete the Elite skills, of which there were 4, on all of them. The only skill in the Master tier was the Master slot which let you take another Module on your mech. Each tier required the same amount of XP to unlock all the skills in that tier. Unlocking all the Elite skills also doubled the bonuses from the Basic tier.

It was a somewhat complicated and definitely time consuming process but was used as the only real progression in the game. The idea is that a mech that is mastered required a lot of time, C-bills, and XP to achieve. Since you also started with nothing, the grind was very real and punishing. They used World of Tanks as a sort of comparison and I'm not sure what else. They didn't want anyone able to just get an Atlas right off the bat.

This is diverging quite a bit already but as a F2P game, they needed to have ways to generate revenue. They were also committed to stay away from Pay-2-Win, which they really have done a good job of avoiding. To generate money, they designed it around paying money for cosmetics or grind reduction. Hero mechs, camo, colors, cockpit items, Premium time to give a bonus to cbill and xp earnings each match (somewhat, in their minds, analogous to a paid subscription), and being able to buy standard mechs for MC to get it faster. That's why the skill tree and grind was so lengthy, because they wanted to incentivize you to buy something to make it faster. About the time the game went Open Beta, PGI came up with the idea of mech packs. A new chassis, with a Hero mech or Special variant with the same bonus, or a chassis in each weight class. The first one was a limited time Project Phoenix Mech Pack. Mech Packs started becoming single chassis instead of collections later on but mech packs became the primary revenue source for the game.

The next mech pack was the Clan Collection, which we all thought at the time would be limited as well, but it's still available on the site, sans the "limited quantity" gold mechs. Clan mechs (or all of these at the time anyway) were omnimechs which were, by lore, able to swap "pods" to load different weapon configurations faster and easier. To build on this concept, PGI created the Omnipod system we have in the game today. By allowing pods to be changed, this allowed hardpoints to change on a mech. For the skill system, they still needed a way to unique identify a mech, so they made the Center Omnipod fixed and that is the variant designator. All other parts can be changed with other omnipods for that chassis that you own or can buy. Since you can now change the thing that made a variant a variant, there had to be a compromise--this came in the form of fixed equipment like engines, upgrades, and jump jets. Thus, IS mechs can change equipment but not hardpoints and Omnimechs and change hardpoints but not equipment. Initially, there were no quirks at all (we did have modules which have since been removed and incorporated into the skill tree system). Then, there were a few quirks added to clan mechs. The Timberwolf infamously had a small negative quirk on some omnipods because it was pretty much reigning supreme. You are not forced to play to the quirks, especially the set of 8 if you don't want to. Each pod has it's own quirks separate from set of 8. Usually, the set of 8 quirks are not that large.

"Division" is a Solaris 7 thing. Solaris was an additional game mode designed for 1v1 and 2v2 play for leaderboards but didn't gather much interest and is no longer accessible in the game.

Some of the other questions were about filters and sorting which aren't necessarily the ones people most want. There should definitely be one for sorting by tonnage.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 22 June 2022 - 10:19 AM.


#5 Sawk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Star Captain
  • Star Captain
  • 402 posts

Posted 22 June 2022 - 03:04 PM

LOL you really think he just read all that, how long did take you all to sort it out, what is the learning curve of this game.

SAWK CLANNER

#6 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 23 June 2022 - 11:45 AM

View PostSawk, on 22 June 2022 - 03:04 PM, said:

LOL you really think he just read all that, how long did take you all to sort it out, what is the learning curve of this game.

SAWK CLANNER

No, but someone else might.

#7 Fignutz0

    Rookie

  • Giant Helper
  • 5 posts

Posted 02 July 2022 - 12:39 PM

View PostTheCaptainJZ, on 23 June 2022 - 11:45 AM, said:

No, but someone else might.


Well, I did read "all that" and highly appreciate it! As well as all the other contributions. ALL my questions answered in one place by a great community! wow. I now understand IS and Omni mech build limits, divisions, chassis, variants and how they came to be this way! Wish other games had a community like this. Great job. Much thanks. Never change!

*OH! and see you on the battle field! Posted Image

Edited by Fignutz0, 02 July 2022 - 12:41 PM.


#8 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 04 July 2022 - 05:58 AM

View PostFignutz0, on 02 July 2022 - 12:39 PM, said:


Well, I did read "all that" and highly appreciate it! As well as all the other contributions. ALL my questions answered in one place by a great community! wow. I now understand IS and Omni mech build limits, divisions, chassis, variants and how they came to be this way! Wish other games had a community like this. Great job. Much thanks. Never change!

*OH! and see you on the battle field! Posted Image

Our New Player section has always been supportive. Different players over time chiming in, but none of us want to scare away new players or even old players with new questions! It helps that the player base for MWO trends older and thus less childish in nature. A lot of Battletech fans are going to be in their 30s-40s.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 04 July 2022 - 05:58 AM.


#9 Fignutz0

    Rookie

  • Giant Helper
  • 5 posts

Posted 04 July 2022 - 02:34 PM

ugh* I hate being predictable (being in 30's). Posted Image I do have another question though.

Why do some Mechs for purchase, have a yellow S7/D"number", in the top right of each mech variant, but one variant wont have that tag?

Edited by Fignutz0, 04 July 2022 - 10:31 PM.


#10 Tarl Cabot

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Tai-sho
  • Tai-sho
  • 7,642 posts
  • LocationImperial City, Luthien - Draconis Combine

Posted 04 July 2022 - 05:07 PM

View PostFignutz0, on 04 July 2022 - 02:34 PM, said:

ugh* I hate being predictable (being in 30's). Posted Image I do have another question though.

Why do some Mechs for purchase, have a yellow S7/D"#", in the top right of each mech variant and one variant wont?


Solaris 7 Divisions. Before the Event Queue setup went live recently, there were 3 main Queues, Faction Play, Quick Play (Currently Soup Queue before that Solo and Group Queues) and Solaris 7... And Solaris 7 had been a great idea, as it was something that had been heavily requested but PGI's implementation of Solaris 7 had been... severely lacking...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 July 2022 - 05:08 PM.


#11 TheCaptainJZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The CyberKnight
  • The CyberKnight
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 06 July 2022 - 01:02 PM

View PostFignutz0, on 04 July 2022 - 02:34 PM, said:

ugh* I hate being predictable (being in 30's). Posted Image I do have another question though.

Why do some Mechs for purchase, have a yellow S7/D"number", in the top right of each mech variant, but one variant wont have that tag?

I haven't looked but it might be because that variant wasn't set up with a division (1-7). In Solaris, they made 7 divisions and assigned every variant to each one. Division 1 was the best mechs (especially in that mode) on down to division 7 which were the weakest. Not all variants of a chassis were in the same division because some are just better than others. If the tag is missing, it is probably because that variant was recently created (past year or so) and never got assigned a division since Solaris is now an abandoned mode.

#12 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 14 July 2022 - 12:58 AM

View PostFignutz0, on 21 June 2022 - 02:59 PM, said:

It comes maxed out so you cant even upgrade weapons!
Think "optimize" more than "upgrade".
Most mechs come with weapon loadouts that (sort of) worked in the tabletop Battletech but may very well be hot garbage in MWO for one reason or another. Stock loadouts tend to generalize, the meta in MWO is to specialize and use weapons that synergize with one another - similar ranges, similar cycle rates, same firing mode.

Quote

Only remove multiple other weapons so you can squeeze in the one you want and are then underpowered??
What if instead of three different weapons that don't sync range, cooldowns or firing mode, you replace them with three that do, and then slap on some extra heat sinks?

Quote

If you lose all benefits by not having the set, why would you bother buying a different omnipod piece and equip it? Seems like a RIP.
Varies omnimech to omnimech, but generally - very few stock pod configurations and set bonuses are actually worthwhile.
Now, not all omnimech quirks are actually tied to the set bonus - some are bound to individual pods. As pods also differ in their weapon hardpoints, you may be giving up a quirk (or a hardpoint) you don't use for a quirk (or a hardpoint) that will work better for your intended loadout.

Quote

What are "classes"? Why bother buying a particular class?
Differences in payload, durability and mobility.

Quote

ASC, DESC- WTF is that!??
ASCending, DESCending sort order.

Quote

Why cant you change some items in mech loadout like jump jets or engine? Why cant I change anything in mechbay "Upgrade" ie. Armor, heat sinks, structure??
You've got an Omnimech.
On Battlemechs you can change armor type and structure type (trade-off between slots and tonnage), heat sink type (tradeoff between size/heat capacity and heat dissipation - doubles are almost always better though) and engines (both their type - trade-off between survivability and tonnage - and rating, which trades off between speed and payload).
On Omnimechs you can't do those things, but you can optimize your quirks and hardpoints by changing the pods - something Battlemechs cannot do.

Quote

Why are jump jets 2 and 3 NOT available for purchase?? (I have, but cannot equip)
To equip jump jets, a mech must a) be a battlemech and Posted Image have jump capability (if it doesn't the store and mechlab will say N/A for jump height).
A jump-capable mech will only support one category of jump jets, depending on its' weight. The jump jets will vary in tonnage and performance based on their category.
For Omnimechs, jump jets are built into specific omnipods and if there's a variant of the chassis that has that, you can make any other variant jump-capable by equipping these pods.

Quote

PRIME vs. PRIME(C)??
The (C) is a (C)hampion version of the PRIME, pre-configured with a different build (sometimes better, but many of those builds are extremely outdated by now), an XP bonus and only available for MC.
Generally don't buy Champion builds, you can put the same loadout on the base variant yourself.

Edited by Horseman, 15 July 2022 - 12:09 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users