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Why King Of Monsters Feels So Good, And What We Can Learn.


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#1 feeWAIVER

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 08:25 AM

I wish they would run the King of the Monsters event again, so we could all get another taste of it...

But today I want to talk about what makes the King of Monsters event so good, and what the MechWarrior franchise can learn from it.

King of the Monsters is an event with select Assaults only; Atlas, Annhi, Awesome, and a few others.
The gimmick of the event is that they jack up the armor like 1000%, and let these titans duke it out.

The small detail that makes this event feel so good to play is that you can take a couple volleys to your CT, and you have so much armor that your paperdoll doesn't even register yellow from it.
You really feel like you're piloting an impenetrable, invulnerable war machine, watching as your armor slowly buckles.

This same effect could be achieved in a normal game without raising the armor, but by simply waiting until an armor point is at 85-90% before registering yellow dmg on your paperdoll.
I think, aesthetically, it helps sell the immersion of being in a giant robot, and if not in MWO, I hope future MechWarrior titles consider that little detail.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 26 September 2022 - 08:26 AM.


#2 Duke Falcon

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 10:31 AM

If we want to be fair later MechWarriors (since 4) including MWO ridiculously buffed the mechs armour already. 4 PPC literally could shatter almost all mechs directly (except some 100 tons butchers) but if we hit something with 4 PPC: 1. Got overheat and shut down 2. Deal only considerable damage but not cripple our target. Even most lights able to survive in MWO.

So while maybe your idea may work and even look plausible in other "giga-mecha-hacker" game title MW already went way, way to far from BattleTech already.

#3 Heavy Money

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 10:39 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 26 September 2022 - 08:25 AM, said:

I wish they would run the King of the Monsters event again, so we could all get another taste of it...

But today I want to talk about what makes the King of Monsters event so good, and what the MechWarrior franchise can learn from it.

King of the Monsters is an event with select Assaults only; Atlas, Annhi, Awesome, and a few others.
The gimmick of the event is that they jack up the armor like 1000%, and let these titans duke it out.

The small detail that makes this event feel so good to play is that you can take a couple volleys to your CT, and you have so much armor that your paperdoll doesn't even register yellow from it.
You really feel like you're piloting an impenetrable, invulnerable war machine, watching as your armor slowly buckles.

This same effect could be achieved in a normal game without raising the armor, but by simply waiting until an armor point is at 85-90% before registering yellow dmg on your paperdoll.
I think, aesthetically, it helps sell the immersion of being in a giant robot, and if not in MWO, I hope future MechWarrior titles consider that little detail.


I like that event too, but having the UI misrepresent how much damage I've taken is not a good feature.

#4 feeWAIVER

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 10:48 AM

View PostHeavy Money, on 26 September 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:


I like that event too, but having the UI misrepresent how much damage I've taken is not a good feature.


You still get the red directional splash from the UI. You see the bullets coming at you. You get the audio feedback of them hitting.

But let's say 85%- any dmg you take down to 86%, you know your armor is holding.
56-85%, your armor is getting dinged up- yellow.
34-55%, your armor is starting to buckle- orange.
1-33%, your armor is critical - red.

You can have the same amount of HP, it's just a different color scaling to create the illusion of a sturdier mech.



#5 Heavy Money

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 01:26 PM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 26 September 2022 - 10:48 AM, said:

You still get the red directional splash from the UI. You see the bullets coming at you. You get the audio feedback of them hitting.

But let's say 85%- any dmg you take down to 86%, you know your armor is holding.
56-85%, your armor is getting dinged up- yellow.
34-55%, your armor is starting to buckle- orange.
1-33%, your armor is critical - red.

You can have the same amount of HP, it's just a different color scaling to create the illusion of a sturdier mech.


I don't think it creates the illusion of a sturdier mech. I think it creates the illusion of being undamaged when you actually are.

#6 LordNothing

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 04:27 PM

yea that was a fun event. its like fighting in escort atlases.

i feel like the recent urbie derby would have been better if they just let the urbies duke it out and got rid of the conquest/domination objective. and maybe force stock mode.

#7 Curccu

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Posted 26 September 2022 - 11:29 PM

Unlimited ammo & heat also, if not... doesn't sound fun times.

View PostLordNothing, on 26 September 2022 - 04:27 PM, said:

yea that was a fun event. its like fighting in escort atlases.

i feel like the recent urbie derby would have been better if they just let the urbies duke it out and got rid of the conquest/domination objective. and maybe force stock mode.

Force stock mode and find that old Polar... such fun.

#8 feeWAIVER

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 03:31 AM

View PostHeavy Money, on 26 September 2022 - 01:26 PM, said:


I don't think it creates the illusion of a sturdier mech. I think it creates the illusion of being undamaged when you actually are.


Look at anyone's yellow leg. Did they get hit by 3 large pulse? An AC2? Was it a collision?
You have no idea what hit their leg or how damaged they actually are.

If anything, delaying the yellow gives you more information, a tighter, more accurate indication of damage assessed.
Allowing Grey to drop below 100, adds Grey to the scale. Do you really need to be alerted the moment your arm is at 99%?





#9 Verilligo

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 08:50 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 27 September 2022 - 03:31 AM, said:

Look at anyone's yellow leg. Did they get hit by 3 large pulse? An AC2? Was it a collision?
You have no idea what hit their leg or how damaged they actually are.

If anything, delaying the yellow gives you more information, a tighter, more accurate indication of damage assessed.
Allowing Grey to drop below 100, adds Grey to the scale. Do you really need to be alerted the moment your arm is at 99%?


Most other MW games solved this by having an HTAL bar graph, rather than a paper doll. There was an actual conscious decision to not provide armor bar graphs in this game. They want you to be less aware of how much damage you've taken and instead develop the skill of knowing your approximate condition through awareness and feedback, with a brief glance over the paper doll to confirm. I can't say I agree with the decision, but I can understand the logic that went into it.

#10 Kriegson

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 09:04 AM

The 'problem' is that Mechs are the ultimate battlefield force multiplier...until you pit them against other mechs. If I recall a 12 v 12 skirmish of several mechs over the medium class would be closer to succession wars level conflict, something rare and and noteworthy.
So yeah an Assault feels gimp when you face a firing line of 12 mechs, it wasn't really meant to. Not to mention most loadouts are pure burst with the biggest guns which in a battlefield situation, actually wouldn't work very well.

All the quirks mechs receive to ensure they remain competitive is part of the 'suspense of disbelief' used to ensure MWO is somewhat fair and works while trying to also remain somewhat faithful to Tabletop, lore and design.

#11 Curccu

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 09:10 AM

View PostVerilligo, on 27 September 2022 - 08:50 AM, said:

Most other MW games solved this by having an HTAL bar graph, rather than a paper doll. There was an actual conscious decision to not provide armor bar graphs in this game. They want you to be less aware of how much damage you've taken and instead develop the skill of knowing your approximate condition through awareness and feedback, with a brief glance over the paper doll to confirm. I can't say I agree with the decision, but I can understand the logic that went into it.


Posted Image

#12 Verilligo

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 01:57 PM

View PostCurccu, on 27 September 2022 - 09:10 AM, said:


Posted Image


I think this illustrates just how poorly the paper doll really does for providing solid information. It's not until ~40% that you really see much of a change in color. It IS changing color above that, but not substantially so and that can be made worse by the effects of environmental and combat conditions. Day/night, muzzle and impact flashes, that sort of thing.

#13 LordNothing

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 02:34 PM

View PostCurccu, on 26 September 2022 - 11:29 PM, said:

Unlimited ammo & heat also, if not... doesn't sound fun times.


Force stock mode and find that old Polar... such fun.


if you are going to force stock urbies, at least make it a city map.

#14 w0qj

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Posted 27 September 2022 - 07:04 PM

Unlimited Heat = Direstar !!



(On a side note, it seems that there is no MWO mech that can fit 4x AC20, not even Dire Wolf, not even Annihilator).

#15 Chloe Cole Kerensky

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Posted 28 September 2022 - 08:46 PM

View PostVerilligo, on 27 September 2022 - 01:57 PM, said:

I think this illustrates just how poorly the paper doll really does for providing solid information. It's not until ~40% that you really see much of a change in color. It IS changing color above that, but not substantially so and that can be made worse by the effects of environmental and combat conditions. Day/night, muzzle and impact flashes, that sort of thing.


Some of the MW5 mods make it so it starts off (for instance) green or blue, then gradually shifts to red. That gives a very dramatic indication.

#16 w0qj

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Posted 29 September 2022 - 07:51 PM

How about weekend Domination Event with 330ton 4xmech Drop Deck per player?
3x Assault mechs + 1x Light mech! XD
Posted Image

(So far it's only 265ton 4xmech Drop Deck for such an Event...)

Edited by w0qj, 29 September 2022 - 07:52 PM.


#17 Curccu

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Posted 29 September 2022 - 08:50 PM

View Postw0qj, on 29 September 2022 - 07:51 PM, said:

How about weekend Domination Event with 330ton 4xmech Drop Deck per player?
3x Assault mechs + 1x Light mech! XD
Posted Image

(So far it's only 265ton 4xmech Drop Deck for such an Event...)

What few games I played last weekends Mordor event, I barely used more than 2 mechs unless stupid yolo rushing.

Edited by Curccu, 29 September 2022 - 09:33 PM.


#18 w0qj

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Posted 02 October 2022 - 07:25 PM

Congrats, perhaps MWO really do ready this forum!

MWO suddenly added one last Weekend Event, as below:

https://mwomercs.com...ueue-3x-rewards
http://www.mwomercs.com/clock

Sunday 5pm PST/8pm EST
Monday 12am UTC
Air Traffic Control
12v12
Groups 1-2
Assault 'Mechs Only
Vitric Station
Domination
Unlimited Jump Jet Fuel
0.5x 'Mech Speed
50% More Armor
3x C-Bill Rewards
3x XP Rewards
15 Minute Match

Edited by w0qj, 02 October 2022 - 07:26 PM.






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