93 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2023 - 03:29 PM, said:

Not even remotely fair to compare a game that has millions of players and billions in revenue to a niche mech based arena shooter that even at its peak of popularity didn't have but a fraction of the active paying player base.

I mean we have essentially the same 1 mode that we had in beta and still all the maps are designed specifically to drive towards that particular play regardless if you draw any of the alternatives. Only difference is they shifted from 8v8 to 12v12 and made the death squad multi-player focus fire more powerful.

[Meep Meep]

I'm not defending poor pgi decisions like solaris 7 and other long term issues. I'm saying that there was never a point in the games history it could ever be a warthunder. Ww2 and cold war tanks and ships and aircraft have a huge appeal especially in the demographic areas gaijin did their marketing. Big stompy robits have always ever been a niche interest.

[PocketYoda]

Personally i think the Legendary Mech idea would have me spend money here, others may differ but honestly it sounds better than most online games money milking designs.

I don't play many online games these days so i'd pay the Legendary thing if it meant more content in the future.


Just be happy the devs here are not like Diablo immortal.

Edited by PocketYoda, 14 January 2023 - 07:44 PM.

[Meep Meep]

If legendary mechs are done right they will be the ultimate variant of the line with no wasted hardpoints or quirks. Not necessarily overpowered just purpose built to do something really good.

[Nightbird]

Well, we'll see soon enough if P2W is the right approach or not.

[w0qj]

I'm very excited about Legendary mechs

How about this for Legendary mechs:

0) Quarks/balancing as usual.

1) Add only one of the following quirks into CT of the mech:
-2.5% Heat, or
+2.5% Heat Dissipation

2) The Legendary mech's unique outlier quirk is the Skill Node #240, unlockable only after all 239 Skill Nodes have been unlocked.
<Realistically even for an avid player like me, only my favorite Legendary mech may get full 239/240 Skill Nodes unlocked.
My other Legendary mechs may never achieve the Skill Node #240 unlock>

3) Legendary mechs to get 17x weapon hardpoints including AMS, similar to Crusader Crael hero mech.
(MWO game client only allow for a maximum of 16x weapons to be equipped).
~A mixture of ballistic/energy/missile hardpoints, and perhaps a 4th weapon hardpoint type as dictated by the upcoming new weapon types?

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2023 - 07:51 PM, said:

If legendary mechs are done right they will be the ultimate variant of the line with no wasted hardpoints or quirks. Not necessarily overpowered just purpose built to do something really good.

[Meep Meep]

I'd take a legendary fle-20 with 8 energy hardpoints and a +50% masc duration quirk.

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2023 - 03:29 PM, said:

Not even remotely fair to compare a game that has millions of players and billions in revenue to a niche mech based arena shooter that even at its peak of popularity didn't have but a fraction of the active paying player base.

if you build it, they will come. they built their game, and now its successful. lets say they built a bathroom with gold plated seats and a guy that hands you a warm towel.

pgi put up some framing and screwed a couple pieces of plywood to it. with clans they added a bucket and called it a toilet. with fp they added door hinges. the string of subsequent fp patches attached small wood scraps to those hinges but nothing resembling a door, the yofp was the door knob, but it stayed in the box because there was nothing resembling a door to attach it to. civil war, the best patch put in flooring, a skylight, and a tp dispenser. platinum was the whitewash. and pgi wonders why people use the other game's outhouse.

mwll at least resembled an outhouse, it was workable, but it got bulldozed by the zoning commission.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 January 2023 - 08:31 AM.

[LordNothing]

PocketYoda, on 14 January 2023 - 07:43 PM, said:

Personally i think the Legendary Mech idea would have me spend money here, others may differ but honestly it sounds better than most online games money milking designs.

I don't play many online games these days so i'd pay the Legendary thing if it meant more content in the future.


Just be happy the devs here are not like Diablo immortal.

pgi is at least fair with the f2p model, to their credit. but im never doing this again. that you would have to pay more than any other game to reduce grind, and still have to grind for years to experience everything the game has to offer. i feel like id have been better served putting that money into my steam library, because then id at least have some variety.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 January 2023 - 08:37 AM.

[Meep Meep]

LordNothing, on 15 January 2023 - 08:25 AM, said:

if you build it, they will come

Thats the reasoning they used to waste all that time and money on solaris 7. They thought if they built it then somehow by majik it would take off as an esport and become a twitch star and millions would flock to the game. Welp...

[LordNothing]

Meep Meep, on 15 January 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

Thats the reasoning they used to waste all that time and money on solaris 7. They thought if they built it then somehow by majik it would take off as an esport and become a twitch star and millions would flock to the game. Welp...

did they really build it though? they built something, but not solaris. people wanted the mw4 or mwll style solaris games. they told us they would do dueling. the community said that it wouldn't work. pgi said they couldn't do ffa or anything else. then they went through with it. people were interested for a couple weeks and then it got old and it failed. they tried to bribe people to play it (and did the same with faction play), and it still failed.

they listen to the community but its usually too late. its sort of like the titanic trying to miss the iceberg from there on out.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 January 2023 - 09:41 AM.

[PocketYoda]

LordNothing, on 15 January 2023 - 08:37 AM, said:

pgi is at least fair with the f2p model, to their credit. but im never doing this again. that you would have to pay more than any other game to reduce grind, and still have to grind for years to experience everything the game has to offer. i feel like id have been better served putting that money into my steam library, because then id at least have some variety.

Well i guess it goes down to do you want MWO to continue or not.. If they are barely running above a loss then people not spending will just kill the game at some point, thats my take on it.

I'm not saying i will buy everything all the time but i will give the legendary mechs a chance. I like the idea they threw around tbh. I did buy the crusader as i felt it would be useful, i did not buy the Hatchetman because its a 45 ton mech with limited weaponry again.. I felt why would i buy a useless mech, even if it had working melee its a 45ton mech in MWO, you'd seldom survive to use it, even if it is quirked over 9000 at release..

I buy content i can use and i feel is worth my money spent.

LordNothing, on 15 January 2023 - 08:25 AM, said:

if you build it, they will come. they built their game, and now its successful. lets say they built a bathroom with gold plated seats and a guy that hands you a warm towel.

pgi put up some framing and screwed a couple pieces of plywood to it. with clans they added a bucket and called it a toilet. with fp they added door hinges. the string of subsequent fp patches attached small wood scraps to those hinges but nothing resembling a door, the yofp was the door knob, but it stayed in the box because there was nothing resembling a door to attach it to. civil war, the best patch put in flooring, a skylight, and a tp dispenser. platinum was the whitewash. and pgi wonders why people use the other game's outhouse.

mwll at least resembled an outhouse, it was workable, but it got bulldozed by the zoning commission.

To be fair a lot were asking for Solaris 7 back then, i believe people expected a 24 man death match like quick play people could watch like an event etc but we received something very different to the customers expectations.. and well it failed, it was very closed and not very fun, too competitive and not casual.

Mistakes were made.

Edited by PocketYoda, 15 January 2023 - 09:39 PM.

[LordNothing]

PocketYoda, on 15 January 2023 - 09:30 PM, said:

Well i guess it goes down to do you want MWO to continue or not.. If they are barely running above a loss then people not spending will just kill the game at some point, thats my take on it.

I'm not saying i will buy everything all the time but i will give the legendary mechs a chance. I like the idea they threw around tbh. I did buy the crusader as i felt it would be useful, i did not buy the Hatchetman because its a 45 ton mech with limited weaponry again.. I felt why would i buy a useless mech, even if it had working melee its a 45ton mech in MWO, you'd seldom survive to use it, even if it is quirked over 9000 at release..

I buy content i can use and i feel is worth my money spent.


To be fair a lot were asking for Solaris 7 back then, i believe people expected a 24 man death match like quick play people could watch like an event etc but we received something very different to the customers expectations.. and well it failed, it was very closed and not very fun, too competitive and not casual.

Mistakes were made.

just saying im fed up with the f2p model and im unwilling to play, or at least pay into, any more f2p games. its just not worth it. im already in pretty deep with mwo though, so im not done with it just yet. so with regards to a potential mwo2, id only buy it if it was not an f2p game.

maybe the legenderies would be a good deal, maybe not. they haven't put them up for sale yet. but if they are overpriced i will not buy them, just like the platinums, and the last 2 mech packs. the boosters were at least worth buying for the new variants, and i bought 2 of those. i dont think id have bought them if they were $40.

and yes, solaris wasn't what people actually wanted. that's why it failed. im sure somone asked for dualing, and pgi went over what was being asked for and chose the easiest path rather than the popular one. in a niche game if a new mode isnt popular, you might as well cut it.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 January 2023 - 07:44 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Meep Meep, on 15 January 2023 - 09:04 AM, said:

Thats the reasoning they used to waste all that time and money on solaris 7. They thought if they built it then somehow by majik it would take off as an esport and become a twitch star and millions would flock to the game. Welp...

They build something, called it Solaris and released it in the worst timeframe you can have (short b4 Battletech) while forcing some semiofficial PR guys to communicate excitement that hated the game mode from the beginning and never catching the comp scene (they had a few comp guys involved in these 1vs1 PVP matches that forshadowed Soalris).

It was a clumsy symmetric low performance mode you only had access to if you did know how, many new people probably thought QP was Solaris while everything was lagging bad when you tried to view a match.

The Roman understood better how gladiator games work and had certain classes of different Galdiators to ensure good matches in matching different classes so that an entertaining combat would be shown/fought.

PGI made all Mech accessible for Solaris and put them into the weird Mechranks with many Mechs simply not competitive in that environment - a cureated selection of periodically changing Mechs that fit together for combat each other would have done better in hindsight.

The Comp scene abandonded Solaris the moment they had an excuse which did also not help.

In the end its a firepower race anyway - shot first, hit first, win - there is no room for maneuver as the fights degrade into MMA brawls.

So, yeah, it had good intend but the execution was missing the goal!

Good intend is not selling games - good gameplay is selling games (if they manage to get the awareness for it)!

Edited by Thorqemada, 16 January 2023 - 08:11 AM.

[LordNothing]

gladiatorial combat had more in common with "pro wrestling" than it did other sports or multiplayer games. both used real and simulated combat to drive a narrative, for entertainment, and in the case of the romans, propaganda. in both the outcome is usually planned ahead of time. the romans would put inexperienced fighters against experienced ones to engineer an outcome they desired. pro wrestling, being non fatal, the wrestlers and ref are all working together to put on a show. you know that bit where someone is distracting the ref so the their friend in the ring can "cheat" and whack the other guy with a chair, yea that's planned to the point where its become almost slapstick. the romans would keep a popular gladiator around by giving them an easy fight. the crowd would eventually get wise to this, so occasionally they would set up a fair fight, or set him up to lose to preserve the illusion (gladiators were disposable after all). there's a little psychological manipulation going on here, a gladiator would be led to believe that he's a superior fighter, and the rigged fights reinforced this, so they were usually clueless when put up against a ringer.\

Edited by LordNothing, 16 January 2023 - 08:41 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Well, i dont see death is the outcome of a Wrestling fight isnt it?
While it is very well the outcome of a Solaris fight (death or destruction).

But yeah, a best of 3 mode with changing Mechs could have been better with little to no dev investment...

[ScrapIron Prime]

Sounds like Legendary mechs will be new variants. Too bad. I was hoping for the ability to "promote" a mech you already own to have a cBill boost and choice of a new quirk from a limited selection.

[LordNothing]

Thorqemada, on 16 January 2023 - 10:08 PM, said:

Well, i dont see death is the outcome of a Wrestling fight isnt it?
While it is very well the outcome of a Solaris fight (death or destruction).

But yeah, a best of 3 mode with changing Mechs could have been better with little to no dev investment...

more in common != same thing

[BLACKR0SE]

I really don't understand why it's hard. there is a new game, there are already machines, there are already models, there are maps, all they need to do is a multiplayer system and a market.

[Lajur Kas]

Nightbird, on 14 January 2023 - 08:07 PM, said:

Well, we'll see soon enough if P2W is the right approach or not.

What part of the NGNG interview or the DevLog has caused you to start ringing the alarm bell about pay to win?

Edited by Lajur Kas, 17 January 2023 - 02:00 PM.