18 replies to this topic

[Bruno Aquino]

Hi, I'm trying to play MWO using my hotas, there isn't any deadzone and is 16 bits precision, it's a WinWing Orion 2.

Even if I set deadzone to zero on settings, the deadzone is still there, and makes the game unplayable using joystick.

Am I missing something ?

I even tryied an app called MWOConfig, but no joystick settings.

Seems that joystick on this game is complete overlooked.

[LordNothing]

true 16 bit? im gonna need to look into that.

oh thats beautiful. im still on a 12 year old ch hotas.

i honestly dont know what to say about the dead zone, the joystick settings in the ui are very spartain. user.cfg vars are:

cl_joystick_gain = 8
cl_joystick_sensitivity = 0.75
cl_joystick_throttle_range = 0
cl_joystick_invert_throttle = 1
cl_joystick_invert_pitch = 1
cl_joystick_invert_yaw = 0
cl_joystick_invert_turn = 0
cl_joystick_deadzone = 0.1

i think the last one is what you want, of course no way to set on an axis by axis basis. game only supports 4. i also find you lose a bit of the throttle for some reason, so i have my ch profile just hit w when above 95% and s below 5%. you can use mwoconfig to set up the user.cfg and add the js stuff manually.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 March 2023 - 04:48 PM.

[Meep Meep]

I have a thrustmaster hotas one and while its great for flying sims and aircraft in the various shooters I find it feels too clumsy to use in mwo and much prefer mouse and kb. I think this is mostly due to me playing fast mechs that dodge and zip around madly so I need the extra sensitivity a mouse gives.

[Widowmaker1981]

Ive been able to get Virpil Alpha sticks working in MWO with zero deadzone, so it should be possible.

That said, dont. Aiming with a joystick in this game will relegate you permanently to T5, its simply not feasible to react with enough precision with even the highest quality joystick compared to a mouse user.

I was experimenting with using a left hand stick (i have HOSAS for space sims) for analog control of throttle level and leg direction, rather than using WASD. It was interesting but, in the end, my muscle memory for using the KB was too strong and using the joystick was making me perform worse. I never even contemplated using a stick for aiming.

[Widowmaker1981]

LordNothing, on 06 March 2023 - 04:41 PM, said:

true 16 bit? im gonna need to look into that.

oh thats beautiful. im still on a 12 year old ch hotas.

Virpil (Belarus / lithuania), VKB (China) and Winwing (China) all make super high quality joysticks with 16 bit precision. They are very expensive and can be a bit of a pain to order but the quality is in a whole different league to stuff like thrustmaster / logitech.

[LordNothing]

ive heard of virpil. that's like $200-300 just for the gimbal. grips not included. but its all metal and a thing of beauty. definitely on my get list.

il take the precision with a grain of salt. while it is something i can build with an arduino and a high res adc module, i have my doubts about manufacturers corner cutting and "faking" true 16-bit through scaling. either leftshift by 8 or cast to float. but you can check it and see if you get consistent increment-by-one on a slow sweep. if they faked it you would have huge gaps between discrete values.

i also take the hype around hall sensors with a grain of salt. because you can get some truly terrible performance out of them if you do not build to high tolerances. the only real benefit they have is in frequent use scenarios like thumbsticks (where a cheap sensor and low res adc would be more than adequate). now you can get really high end sensors, with stupid specs, like an onboard dsp for error correction and a purely digital interface. i myself have found potentiometers that out perform hall by a wide margin (granted they are vintage milspec made in the usa when analog was king).

in both cases manufacturing likes to cut corners, even with premium pricing. though sometimes you get what you pay for. but a solid stick with a strong modding scene usually can fix up those deficiencies.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 March 2023 - 12:02 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Bruno Aquino, on 06 March 2023 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hi, I'm trying to play MWO using my hotas, there isn't any deadzone and is 16 bits precision, it's a WinWing Orion 2.

Even if I set deadzone to zero on settings, the deadzone is still there, and makes the game unplayable using joystick.

Am I missing something ?

I even tryied an app called MWOConfig, but no joystick settings.

Seems that joystick on this game is complete overlooked.

I use two out of three of my hotas controllers for MWO, MFG pedals and a Virpil throttle. Using a mouse for aiming/torso movement is much more precise in my opinion.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

throttle+pedals+mouse here as well. its the best of both worlds. some immersion without crippling your performance. though my ch gear is in dire need of replacement.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 March 2023 - 05:43 PM.

[GoatHILL]

You do you, but mouse and keyboard are far superior.

[LordNothing]

GoatHILL, on 10 March 2023 - 06:46 PM, said:

You do you, but mouse and keyboard are far superior.

mouse yes, but the keyboard is not the best controller for throttle and no analog legs either. if you got a throttle with more than 100 functions, you dont need to touch the keyboard except to chat.

[CFC Conky]

LordNothing, on 10 March 2023 - 05:43 PM, said:

throttle+pedals+mouse here as well. its the best of both worlds. some immersion without crippling your performance. though my ch gear is in dire need of replacement.

I originally used a full CH hotas setup, but when the pedals and throttle began to wear out I ordered new ones and the build quality is just terrible now (they are assembled in Mexico), and their technology, i.e. pots and rheostats is just ancient and not very precise compared to Hall sensors and the like. It's too bad because the CH Pro Throttle is actually a lot better ergonomically when it comes to playing MWO vs my Virpil kit. That said, my Fighterstick is as rock solid today as the day I purchased it 15+ years ago.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

yea, for a plastic build, the quality is astounding. my controllers are 12 years old.

[Meep Meep]

The hotas one gets knocked for being plastic and cheap but I've had it a couple of years now with regular use and its holding up fine and is very accurate.

[LordNothing]

i dont know if id call it cheap. i think the whole set cost $450ish when i got it. that kind of money can buy you an all metal stick now.

[Meep Meep]

The hotas one base kit without the pedals is around $90 on amazon. $200 with the aluminum pedals so yeah thats pretty cheap for a full featured hotas. Yeah its not as adaptable as the more expensive kits but for my needs its perfect. My one real gripe is that due to the almost completely plastic construction its a bit too light but I solved that by using velcro on the bottom to solidly attach it to the desk so no more shifting base when I have to pull some tight maneuvers. Hell I still have my original thrustmaster mark II fcs from the early 90's I used to play falcon 3.0 and the xwing games though its useless on modern pc since it hooked up via the game port.

[Widowmaker1981]

LordNothing, on 10 March 2023 - 07:01 PM, said:

mouse yes, but the keyboard is not the best controller for throttle and no analog legs either. if you got a throttle with more than 100 functions, you dont need to touch the keyboard except to chat.

You'd think that analog throttle and leg turn would be better than keyboard but.. i dont think it is, after trying it. Its probably not worse, once you get used to it, but i didnt see enough advantage to make it worth the pain of updating my muscle memory.

When you're turning your legs, if you're in combat you want to do it as fast as possible 99% of the time (because it ***** with aim), so analog control isnt needed. Same for acceleration and deceleration, you want to go to full speed ASAP or stop ASAP so a KB button press is more efficient than having to move a throttle lever.

There just arent enough situations where you want to turn your legs or move forward/backwards at below maximum speed to make using analog controls worthwhile for anything other than immersion, imo.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 March 2023 - 07:04 AM.

[LordNothing]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 March 2023 - 07:04 AM, said:

You'd think that analog throttle and leg turn would be better than keyboard but.. i dont think it is, after trying it. Its probably not worse, once you get used to it, but i didnt see enough advantage to make it worth the pain of updating my muscle memory.

When you're turning your legs, if you're in combat you want to do it as fast as possible 99% of the time (because it ***** with aim), so analog control isnt needed. Same for acceleration and deceleration, you want to go to full speed ASAP or stop ASAP so a KB button press is more efficient than having to move a throttle lever.

There just arent enough situations where you want to turn your legs or move forward/backwards at below maximum speed to make using analog controls worthwhile for anything other than immersion, imo.

my trick is i havent changed my mappings much since the mw4 days, through mwll, mwo and now mw5. mwo is the biggest divergence for its lack of targeting controls. jump still jumps, masc still mascs, and flush coolant does a coolshot. engine controls more or less take up the lower hat switch. i used to use a joystick but have switched to mouse, g604 with a good 8 usable buttons, which maps pretty much 1:1 with the 8 most used functions on my joystick.

there are some things, like the targeting controls now operate airstrikes and arty, which has let me to drop arty on my team several times in mwo. i think my map also moved. mw5 got an airstrike capability which is now on a weird button and not the same one i used in mwo. so its not without problems. but a good 80% of the functions havent changed for me in over a decade. i dont think i ever played mwo with a keyboard except a couple times when my mappings didnt load right (usually because i forgot to load my profile after playing another game).

Edited by LordNothing, 13 March 2023 - 11:52 AM.

[Horseman]

Bruno Aquino, on 06 March 2023 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hi, I'm trying to play MWO using my hotas, there isn't any deadzone and is 16 bits precision, it's a WinWing Orion 2.
Even if I set deadzone to zero on settings, the deadzone is still there, and makes the game unplayable using joystick.
Am I missing something ?
I even tryied an app called MWOConfig, but no joystick settings.
Seems that joystick on this game is complete overlooked.

You can do okay if you only use your joystick for movement and continue aiming with your mouse, but trying to aim with a joystick (which sounds like it's your goal with HOTAS) is an excercise in masochism. The game was not designed for joystick control and has no aim assist to speak of.

[LordNothing]

Horseman, on 17 March 2023 - 07:53 AM, said:

You can do okay if you only use your joystick for movement and continue aiming with your mouse, but trying to aim with a joystick (which sounds like it's your goal with HOTAS) is an excercise in masochism. The game was not designed for joystick control and has no aim assist to speak of.

this. joystick control was thrown in as an afterthought. quake had better joystick support. and the best joystick control in a mechwarrior game was in mechwarrior 2.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 March 2023 - 02:52 PM.