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Light Mech Meta - Not Doing Game Any Favors.

BattleMechs Metagame

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#1 Dedra Meero

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 10:40 AM

I'll just come right out and say it.

The light mech meta in this game currently has turned it into run'n'gun Call of Duty wearing robot versions of furry suits.
  • Light mechs have multiple weapon slots with some carrying more total damage output than mediums.
  • Light mechs have high top speeds with combined with hitreg for the game and netcode makes a lot of, what appears to be hits, actually miss and do no damage.
  • This on top of light mechs already having small profile and avoid hits as it is.
  • Then, to make things even better, several of them also have stealth armor.
I've always been a fan of light mechs as scouts, as skirmisher and harassers. But that is not the case anymore. Having a light mech pack doing run'n'gun like some drunken CoD event is the name of the game and more often than not will push a team to victory.

So is this supposed to be a game with battlemechs or a weird call of duty furry game in robot suits?

You tell me.

#2 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:11 AM

Oh! An entirely "new" take on the "Lights are OP" thread.

Just tell me: Do you have any verifiable statistics beyond anecdotal experience that don't end up showing that "Lights" are the least played weight class with the lowest averages for damage / match score?

#3 Razgriz_

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:14 AM

My favorite part about the 'meta' light mechs is that no one plays them so they're a good fallback when games take forever to find. Lights are super annoying but they're hardly ruining the game.

#4 sycocys

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:30 AM

The only one that is maybe a problem currently is the trashcan that effectively tanks more damage than some heavies. And even then only a problem in multiples.

#5 Light Rushing B

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:42 AM

Not that many people play light mechs, lowest avg dmg... Lowest match score Really hard to play light mechs in the QP meta, that being said they are good for turning a 1v1 into a 2v1 and most light mechs have really good continuous damage rather than splat.

Not meta breaking IMO, and It's always good to see variety on the battlefield

Edited by Light Rushing B, 18 March 2023 - 11:43 AM.


#6 The Mech behind you

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:44 AM

I don't know. I've never felt so vulnerable and weak compared to the other classes in those 10 years of MWO then now. Lights often have the lowest percentage of players while heavies and assaults have the highest. There are maybe 3 or 4 lights that are really good, and the other lights suffer.

Edited by The Mech behind you, 18 March 2023 - 11:45 AM.


#7 Blood Rose

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 12:34 PM

I do wonder how many hours OP has in one of these fearsome, invincible, light mechs. Clearly he must have a lot of experience using them.

#8 Duke Falcon

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 12:46 PM

View PostDedra Meero, on 18 March 2023 - 10:40 AM, said:

I'll just come right out and say it.

The light mech meta in this game currently has turned it into run'n'gun Call of Duty wearing robot versions of furry suits.
  • Light mechs have multiple weapon slots with some carrying more total damage output than mediums.
  • Light mechs have high top speeds with combined with hitreg for the game and netcode makes a lot of, what appears to be hits, actually miss and do no damage.
  • This on top of light mechs already having small profile and avoid hits as it is.
  • Then, to make things even better, several of them also have stealth armor.
I've always been a fan of light mechs as scouts, as skirmisher and harassers. But that is not the case anymore. Having a light mech pack doing run'n'gun like some drunken CoD event is the name of the game and more often than not will push a team to victory.


So is this supposed to be a game with battlemechs or a weird call of duty furry game in robot suits?

You tell me.


GIVE US THE NUKER URBIE!!!


...


Dude, hey, c'mon! Seriously?

#9 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 01:00 PM

from his own stats:



when using 39%lights
w/l, surv, kdr
1.05, 41%, 1.17

when using 25%lights
w/l, surv, kdr
1.30, 48%, 1.67

so... lights are so broken/OP, that he does better when he uses them less.
go figure.

also: smells like an alt-account, just to troll around a bit. "thank you" for that.
nevermind, it's a rename. to troll around. still "thanks for that".

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 18 March 2023 - 01:05 PM.


#10 RickySpanish

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 05:56 PM

View PostDedra Meero, on 18 March 2023 - 10:40 AM, said:

I'll just come right out and say it.

  • Light mechs have multiple weapon slots with some carrying more total damage output than mediums.
  • Light mechs have high top speeds with combined with hitreg for the game and netcode makes a lot of, what appears to be hits, actually miss and do no damage.
  • This on top of light mechs already having small profile and avoid hits as it is.


Hmm. OP seems a bit green to be passing judgement...

View PostDedra Meero, on 18 March 2023 - 10:40 AM, said:

  • Then, to make things even better, several of them also have stealth armor.


Yep new player confirmed. It's OK OP, just keep plugging away at it.

Edited by RickySpanish, 18 March 2023 - 05:56 PM.


#11 LordNothing

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 08:42 PM

the funny thing about these threads are they are based on a thread created in lieu of a MEDIUM MECH EVENT.

#12 Grand Muff Diver

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Posted 18 March 2023 - 11:55 PM

I've been called a griefer multiple times because for some reason taking a fle-20 and doing what its supposed to do by infiltrating and taking our rear torso and ct is somehow evil and bad and I should be ashamed for it.

Nah..

#13 Tarteso

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 03:56 AM

View PostDer Geisterbaer, on 18 March 2023 - 11:11 AM, said:

Oh! An entirely "new" take on the "Lights are OP" thread.

Just tell me: Do you have any verifiable statistics beyond anecdotal experience that don't end up showing that "Lights" are the least played weight class with the lowest averages for damage / match score?


And where is the verifiable data/statistical proof showing that? A quick analysis using the 100 top ranked players (Jar´l List) show that the Light - Medium - Heavy - Assault average use is: 21.33 - 20.35 - 23.51 - 30.06 %, and no statistical differences (alpha 0.01) between Light - Medium - Heavy use. Surprise?
And for damage / match average scores I don´t know but, should it be make sense in other way? Changes in how match score and rewards (MC) work have been suggested in the past and ignored.

To the OP: the louder and more influential part of this community likes things this way, so posting against the poor lights, and thinking "out of the box" about other controversial issues is a waste of time. Just play the game while it lasts and as long as you have fun.

#14 Grand Muff Diver

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 04:09 AM

Only a statistical handful of players can make the 'op' lights work solo and even they get wiped about as much as they farm. Yeah they are powerful in packs but so is any reasonably mobile mech. Get jumped by a pack of fast mediums and see how long you last?

#15 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 06:02 AM

View PostTarteso, on 19 March 2023 - 03:56 AM, said:

And where is the verifiable data/statistical proof showing that?


When in doubt in the very source that you are trying to refer to.
Just look at the foot notes for the global stats where you'll find this explaination on how Jarl's achieves numbers that allows to compare players against each other:

Ranks are determined by adjusted match score for players who have been active in the last three months.
Players who have stopped playing are still tracked but are placed into "retirement". They will be placed back into ranks if they return but their latest performance will have significant effect on their placement when returning.
How Adjusted Score Formula is calculated: ((Season Average Match Score)*((Season#+1)^1.8))*(-(1.007^(-TotalGamesPlayed)-1))*(ClassMultiplier)
This will give full score around 500 games and each new season is weighed higher than the last. After this, the score is adjusted based on classes played.
The weight class coefficients are derived from each classes' recent global performance. The current class weights are:
Light: 1.111111111, Medium: 0.9803921569, Heavy: 1, Assault: 0.9523809524.

I guess you'll be able to figure out what those "weight class coefficients" mean in terms of how the actual numbers numbers look when comparing weight classes among each other. Hint: Light numbers have to be inflated by 11% vs. heavies about 16% against assaults and about 12% against mediums in order to make those number comparable. The only minor change against older data of the same type is that currently mediums also seem to have a "negative" coefficient against heavies (but still close enough to not matter that much when compared against assault and light coefficients).

View PostTarteso, on 19 March 2023 - 03:56 AM, said:


A quick analysis using the 100 top ranked players (Jar´l List) show that the Light - Medium - Heavy - Assault average use is: 21.33 - 20.35 - 23.51 - 30.06 %, and no statistical differences (alpha 0.01) between Light - Medium - Heavy use.


A "quick" and still heavily biased "analysis". Do yourself the favour and do that comparison against the entire "active" player base.

View PostTarteso, on 19 March 2023 - 03:56 AM, said:

Surprise?


No, I'm not surprised to see that someone is citing a particular source which they clearly never even bothered to take a closer look at and then proceed to provide further numbers that are rife of selection bias.

View PostTarteso, on 19 March 2023 - 03:56 AM, said:

And for damage / match average scores I don´t know but, should it be make sense in other way?


That's quite obviously not the only thing that you "don't know".

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 19 March 2023 - 06:03 AM.


#16 Curccu

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 06:52 AM

View PostLight Rushing B, on 18 March 2023 - 11:42 AM, said:

most light mechs have really good continuous damage rather than splat.

MOST light mechs have bad DPS and burst damage

View PostTeenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 18 March 2023 - 01:00 PM, said:

from his own stats:



when using 39%lights
w/l, surv, kdr
1.05, 41%, 1.17

when using 25%lights
w/l, surv, kdr
1.30, 48%, 1.67

so... lights are so broken/OP, that he does better when he uses them less.
go figure.

also: smells like an alt-account, just to troll around a bit. "thank you" for that.
nevermind, it's a rename. to troll around. still "thanks for that".


More specifically his stats
January KDR WLR AVGMS
Lights 0,84 1,00 189
Mediums 1,29 1,52 269

February
Lights 1,25 2,25 275
Mediums 1,38 1,67 297

March
Lights 1,27 1,67 253
Mediums 1,33 1,48 311

Clearly lights OP as they are better at kill stealing but win less and has worse AVGMS

Looks like account that has been inactive for Years and with that experience he now shares great wisdom.

#17 Dedra Meero

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 09:30 AM

View PostCurccu, on 19 March 2023 - 06:52 AM, said:

MOST light mechs have bad DPS and burst damage


More specifically his stats
January KDR WLR AVGMS
Lights 0,84 1,00 189
Mediums 1,29 1,52 269

February
Lights 1,25 2,25 275
Mediums 1,38 1,67 297

March
Lights 1,27 1,67 253
Mediums 1,33 1,48 311

Clearly lights OP as they are better at kill stealing but win less and has worse AVGMS

Looks like account that has been inactive for Years and with that experience he now shares great wisdom.


I do like how you go for ad hominem arguments straight off the bat. Even me, who is no savant or professional MWO gamer, is able to come out on top with light mechs versus other mechs. Which kind of just proves my point. Or rather, you are just proving my point for me.

When it comes to the win/lose comparisons the simple fact is that when you play solo and sign up for quick match then your chance of winning is about 50%. You do what you can, which is what everyone else does, but when you sign up for quick match solo whether you win or lose is literally a coin toss. 50/50. You might get on a team that has a clan working together, or you might get on a full solo team and other team has the clan working together. Flip of a coin.

Either way, your use of stats are simply highlighting that light mechs do better, even in the hands of (as others have pointed out in this thread through ad hominem arguments) a rookie like myself.

Thanks for pointing it out though.

#18 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 09:32 AM

View PostDedra Meero, on 19 March 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

I do like how you go for ad hominem arguments straight off the bat. Even me, who is no savant or professional MWO gamer, is able to come out on top with light mechs versus other mechs. Which kind of just proves my point. Or rather, you are just proving my point for me.

When it comes to the win/lose comparisons the simple fact is that when you play solo and sign up for quick match then your chance of winning is about 50%. You do what you can, which is what everyone else does, but when you sign up for quick match solo whether you win or lose is literally a coin toss. 50/50. You might get on a team that has a clan working together, or you might get on a full solo team and other team has the clan working together. Flip of a coin.

Either way, your use of stats are simply highlighting that light mechs do better, even in the hands of (as others have pointed out in this thread through ad hominem arguments) a rookie like myself.

Thanks for pointing it out though.


reading/interpreting is hard, hm..? ;)

#19 Dedra Meero

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 09:42 AM

View PostTeenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 19 March 2023 - 09:32 AM, said:


reading/interpreting is hard, hm..? Posted Image


That's quite amusing as the whole interpreting part is exactly what the person I quoted failed at doing. At least as far as understanding statistics go.

#20 Der Geisterbaer

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Posted 19 March 2023 - 09:56 AM

View PostDedra Meero, on 19 March 2023 - 09:30 AM, said:

Either way, your use of stats are simply highlighting that light mechs do better, even in the hands of (as others have pointed out in this thread through ad hominem arguments) a rookie like myself.


Interesting interpretation of your own stats and an even more interesting use of the terminology "ad hominem".





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