21 replies to this topic

[Horky]

I've noticed that match points, which I assume are used for progression, are heavily weighted towards doing the most damage and winning the game.

Why do these seem to be the largest metrics? When you do really well as a support mech, get lots of assists, use consumables for UAV spotting, lots of component kills, kill lots of missiles, etc. you seem to be punished as you didn't do loads of damage. This is especially true if you did not win.

Is the way to progress to just jump in insane assault mechs and blast each limb off of each opponent in hopes of doing as much "sheet damage" as you can?

I'm just curious as a new player.

Thanks!

Edit: And why is it so janky to find the current event pages? Why can there not be links either in game or more prominently displayed that show how to get to current example: current free mech event and the lucky charms page. It's currently listed under MWO / TOURNAMENTS

Edited by Horky, 21 March 2023 - 11:52 PM.

[Rondoe]

Assualt mechs are a fickle thing.
We go slow, and pack a big punch

Rarely given the chance to get to the front line
before some annoying little kid saws our legs off

At the front line we go over the trench, ferro in all it's tankiness

and all run away.

Blasting away as we charge.

Is the fate of the assault brigade.

Edit#2-Point being walk softly and carry a big stick.

Edited by Rondoe, 22 March 2023 - 12:29 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Greetings and welcome to MWO Horky!

The calculation of matchscore is a very obscure topic since PGI has not released their official numbers. Here's a document where the community has gathered some findings: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

As you can see from this, damage is not the only, but a big contributor to your personal matchscore. However, you don't need a big assault to be successful in battle and do big amounts of damage.

There are usually two types of events: Regular and Lootbag. The regular events can be accessed through the website or more comfortably directly from the client (a little "E" shaped icon on the bottom of the screen).
Lootbag events are somewhat different in nature and require you to access the website. These happen usually 4x per year (Lucky Charms, Beach Party, Trick or Treat, Stocking Stuffer). The current event is https://mwomercs.com...s?t=202203lucky

[Horky]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 22 March 2023 - 12:21 AM, said:

Greetings and welcome to MWO Horky!

The calculation of matchscore is a very obscure topic since PGI has not released their official numbers. Here's a document where the community has gathered some findings: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

As you can see from this, damage is not the only, but a big contributor to your personal matchscore. However, you don't need a big assault to be successful in battle and do big amounts of damage.

There are usually two types of events: Regular and Lootbag. The regular events can be accessed through the website or more comfortably directly from the client (a little "E" shaped icon on the bottom of the screen).
Lootbag events are somewhat different in nature and require you to access the website. These happen usually 4x per year (Lucky Charms, Beach Party, Trick or Treat, Stocking Stuffer). The current event is https://mwomercs.com...s?t=202203lucky

So at .4275 per point of damage done it seems like it's bang for buck the best way to go if you want to rank up?

I was hoping this wouldn't quite be the case, as clever ECM, AMS, or cooldown usage seem to be things that really turn the tide of a battle. Hopping in my (hallelujah 50% off) fafnir to do 500-1000 damage seems a lot easier/stress free, but less game-winning than supporting a group of assaults with my kitfox (3xAMS, ECM), but is much more rewarding when it comes time to divvy up the cheddar.

On this same topic - How can I know I'm progressing? I've hardly noticed any change in my "rank" since I've started playing, despite having what seems to be many more good games than bad.

Thank you for your patience and understanding!

Edited by Horky, 22 March 2023 - 12:44 AM.

[Leone]

So, If I recall correctly, your first 25 matches are a bit more heavily weighted, mostly to try and seed new accounts closer to their optimal tier. After that, you're at the behest of the system, which, as you noticed, does favour victory and damage.

Your match score rises more based on how far off the curve you are on matchscore, so on a mediocre loss you score might only go down a minute amount, and on a low scoring victory you might hardly rise any, keeping your score level and your Tier the same. The idea is, if you're winning half your matches, you're doing your part and are in the right Tier, no need to change. If you're constantly outperforming your other Tier mates, then the system is designed to move you up and out so you fight more experienced pilots. Dependant on your normal playtimes and the game population at the time, you might already be going up against more experienced players as the Tiers are soft locked and will open the gates to allow for games.

Don't sweat the progression. Just focus on learning the game and improving your contributions to the team. Sure low damage assistance doesn't rise your score as well as hard charging damage does, but if you're supporting well, you'll be winning more'n you'll be losing,

~Leone, of Kell's Commandos

Edited by Leone, 22 March 2023 - 03:06 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Don't put too much thought into "ranking up" would be my advice. Judge yourself by your own metrics. Unless you're in an assault and dealing a lot of damage, your match score likely won't be the highest in the match, meaning you're less likely to move up, especially since both Legendary mechs that just released are assaults and matches were already skewed towards having a lot of assaults. In other words, you're already at a disadvantage.

The reason damage is the main contributor to MS is because it's the single, best way to quantify performance, if a bit oversimplified for the reasons you mentioned. But the main way to win any mode is to kill all the enemies which necessitates doing more damage than they did, as a generalization. The other stuff is helpful, but by itself doesn't win matches (except for objectives, but the best strategy to win the objective is still to kill all the enemies since they only have one life). And assists can mean anything from dealing 400 damage to dealing 0.1 to a mech.

[Horky]

So, while not focusing on "ranking up" might be the best thing for a new player, would it be a good thing for someone looking to find groups to play with that focus more on teamwork and winning than farming limbs?

I would like to play roles other than "do big damage, get points" with anonymous people, but it seems like progression is limited to just that, and the best teamwork is, I'm sure, not in the lower tiers.

I guess I might be a little naive, but is there more teamwork at higher tiers?

[TheCaptainJZ]

Horky, on 23 March 2023 - 10:35 PM, said:

So, while not focusing on "ranking up" might be the best thing for a new player, would it be a good thing for someone looking to find groups to play with that focus more on teamwork and winning than farming limbs?

I would like to play roles other than "do big damage, get points" with anonymous people, but it seems like progression is limited to just that, and the best teamwork is, I'm sure, not in the lower tiers.

I guess I might be a little naive, but is there more teamwork at higher tiers?

Well yes, if you're an experienced player, you're more aware of the flow of the game, general tactics, weapon and mech knowledge, map knowledge, player behaviors, heat management and trigger discipline, and you've tuned your mechs in the mechlab to work for you and be effective. I've never joined a group (the "group" I'm in is just my brother and I) so I can't say much about them other than what I've heard others say and that is that most are generally accepting of any kind of casual but serious player. It's not stats that they focus on as much as working together and willing to listen and learn and that kind of thing. There are certainly good players in the game but most of use are not hardcore, competitive players I feel. Most of us are just here for fun. It's not like MWO bring in any serious attention or money like other famous games do.

[Ignatius Audene]

Horky, on 23 March 2023 - 10:35 PM, said:

So, while not focusing on "ranking up" might be the best thing for a new player, would it be a good thing for someone looking to find groups to play with that focus more on teamwork and winning than farming limbs?

I would like to play roles other than "do big damage, get points" with anonymous people, but it seems like progression is limited to just that, and the best teamwork is, I'm sure, not in the lower tiers.

I guess I might be a little naive, but is there more teamwork at higher tiers?

There are no other roles. Your ecm what ever is like 1-5% of your mech tonnage. Your main purpose is always to put the reds in the ground faster than vice versa. (Fp double narc raven might be the exception here, but than again this is just to put the reds in the dust fast).

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 03 May 2023 - 12:40 AM.

[RockmachinE]

Horky, on 22 March 2023 - 12:39 AM, said:

I was hoping this wouldn't quite be the case, as clever ECM, AMS, or cooldown usage seem to be things that really turn the tide of a battle. Hopping in my (hallelujah 50% off) fafnir to do 500-1000 damage seems a lot easier/stress free, but less game-winning than supporting a group of assaults with my kitfox (3xAMS, ECM), but is much more rewarding when it comes time to divvy up the cheddar.

On this same topic - How can I know I'm progressing? I've hardly noticed any change in my "rank" since I've started playing, despite having what seems to be many more good games than bad.

The best way to contribute towards victory in MWO is to damage, cripple and destroy mechs. Other stuff helps, but is negligible compared to destroying the enemy.

There is no numerical progression in MWO per se. Progressing would be accumulating mechs, CBills, equipment and MC and being able to play in various ways and enjoying the multitude of options MWO gives for gameplay.

There are 5 skill Tiers however, which can be perceived as progression. The Tiers function as a sort of skill matching system even though the game lumps players of +/- 2 tiers together if there aren't enough players to draw from at the moment of match generation.

The game tends to put you in the Tier which is most representative of your understanding of the game and your skill in playing it, starting in Tier 5. The system is far from ideal, but it does reflect player experience and skill fairly well.

You can check your progress bar under Pilot Skill Rating in the mechlab, it does move slowly, but it will move up or down based on your performance. The way to increase in Tier is to do well relative to other players in your current match. So if you win and not do well you might still regress and if you loose your bar might still increase. So basically do well you go up, don't do well you go down.

The advice not to chase tiers is good advice. It does tend to be fairly organic and players do tend to end up in the Tier most reflective of their ability. If you keep trying to chase higher Tiers and you are not skilled enough, you will have a bad time as you will find yourself slipping down then moving up and down again, which can be frustrating. Players get frustrated not being in the Tier they think they deserve to be in, but the fact is you will end up where you belong after playing for a while.

The best way to play is to enjoy the game and disregard Tiers entirely. If anything higher Tiers have longer waiting times for match making as the game has a smaller pool of players to draw from. If and when you get good enough you will naturally and organically move up without effort. Until then enjoy the game.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 13 April 2023 - 10:02 AM.

[Horseman]

Horky, on 21 March 2023 - 11:48 PM, said:

I've noticed that match points, which I assume are used for progression, are heavily weighted towards doing the most damage and winning the game.

Why do these seem to be the largest metrics?

Because the game was not designed with objective play in mind. In the vast majority of modes, removing the entire opfor is the best way to win. Even in Conquest or the old Scouting, removing enemy assets gives you better odds of success.

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When you do really well as a support mech, get lots of assists, use consumables for UAV spotting, lots of component kills, kill lots of missiles, etc. you seem to be punished as you didn't do loads of damage. This is especially true if you did not win.

Support doesn't secure objectives nor does it remove enemy assets from the board. We used to get match score for AMS, and hoo boy, was it abusable as ever-loving ****. I used to drop with a pair of AMS Novas into every loot bag event for a few years, and reach match scores higher than most of my team with almost weaponless AMS Piranhas..

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Is the way to progress to just jump in insane assault mechs and blast each limb off of each opponent in hopes of doing as much "sheet damage" as you can?

Farming damage doesn't secure a win and there is a limit to how far it can go (take it from a career LRM abuser).
In general, the best way to progress is focus on surviving longer into the match and using that time to stack more damage onto enemy mechs as you go (be very opportunistic with your fire, you don't get paid to take ammo home). Longer survival also means more chances to gain extra score from repeatable kickers such as Proximity, Flanking or Hit & Run.

Quote

Why can there not be links either in game or more prominently displayed that show how to get to current example: current free mech event and the lucky charms page. It's currently listed under MWO / TOURNAMENTS

There are two event systems. The loot bag events depend on the old system for some reason PGI never bothered to explain.

Horky, on 22 March 2023 - 12:39 AM, said:

I was hoping this wouldn't quite be the case, as clever ECM, AMS, or cooldown usage seem to be things that really turn the tide of a battle.

They won't save a team that is too uncoordinated or too passive. Damage is king, other things are beneficial extras, but not so beneficial as to make pure support to be viable in solo QP. If you're dropping with a premade, and that premade includes at least 1 LRM boat, that's a whole different story.

Also, your Cool Shot only applies to yourself, not to allies.

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On this same topic - How can I know I'm progressing? I've hardly noticed any change in my "rank" since I've started playing, despite having what seems to be many more good games than bad.

There are public leaderboards ( https://mwomercs.com...le/leaderboards ), which are being aggregated by https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/ - search for your nick and you can see how your performance changed over the months. If you're winning more often than not and your match score is above the global average (around ~240 right now), you can expect to rise.

Horky, on 23 March 2023 - 10:35 PM, said:

So, while not focusing on "ranking up" might be the best thing for a new player, would it be a good thing for someone looking to find groups to play with that focus more on teamwork and winning than farming limbs?

Possibly, but you should look for groups on the Discord hubs ( MWO Comp being the biggest one - and contrary to the name welcoming to all players who want to improve - https://discord.gg/6wxM5hC ). When group members are of different tiers, the group's matchmaking tier is averaged - this would allow you to play with higher tiers without necessarily having to grind your match score too hard.

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I guess I might be a little naive, but is there more teamwork at higher tiers?

There is, but not as much as you'd expect. There's also a lot more comms use, which is a BIG multiplier to your team's effectiveness even if you don't necessarily go out of your way to work as a cohesive whole.

[VeeOt Dragon]

as others have said don't worry to much about Tier or match score. the former really doesn't mater and the later is only really effective as a way to gauge your performance with that of your team on a match by match basis.

unlike others i support support mechs or rather i have have a differing view on what constitutes a support mech. any mech running equipment that helps your team but isn't dealing direct damage is a support mech to me (this includes Flamers). (well other than running a single AMS thats more for protecting yourself but it does help).

yeah the Tier system looks at damage above all else (i think KMDDs are worth the same as a Kill though) hell i think you should get credit for at least half the damage delt to a mech by locking weapons if you have it TAGed or NARCed. this might be to complicated for the current mess that is the game's coding though.

above all else you should play what you have fun with. i am one of those that i don't care what my teammates are using as long as they are contributing to the match. i don't care about meta and i don't care about my Tier (it does bother me that disturbingly often T1s end up matched with T5s but nothing i can do about that)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 19 April 2023 - 08:15 PM.

[Raffen Volt]

Easiest way to win each mode in quick play:
Skirmish: Kill all enemy Mechs
Assault: Kill all enemy Mechs
Domination: Kill all enemy Mechs
Conquest: Kill all enemy Mechs
Incursion: Kill all enemy Mechs

This is why damage is rewarded more than objective play. What's the point of trying to capture bases or sit in the circle (and making yourself a sitting duck) when you can just win by ignoring the objective completely and treat every match like it's a skirmish. Yes, you can certainly be a team player, but you won't be rewarded as much as if you simply blasted the enemy the whole match.
Don't worry about tier level. That only affects matchmaking for quick play. Play whatever way you want to, have fun, and make a bunch of c bills so you can buy more Mechs.

[Horky]

Sorry for being absent from this post for a while. I've kept up with the responses and it seems like the way to improve pilot score is to: ignore objectives, do more damage, kill mechs, hope to win.

This really is pretty sad, as the best way for new players (like me) is to zug zug by just playing assaults (and honestly the new legend mechs). I would really like to play light mechs without losing pilot score while winning w/ 250 points of damage done, multiple assists, etc.

I know folks say that just playing is the best way to approach this game, not paying any mind to tier, but when you put the metric out there that some people are tier 5 and others are tier 1, people are going to try to be tier 1. They will always try to improve to the point of making it there, but it just feels like you don't get to progress if you're not tryharding with some sort of damage farming build every game, as you might lose with 300 damage and lose rating.

This pmuch makes me resent my favorite class of mech, light. It makes me feel like I need to pilot something else to be able to eventually play the mechs I truly like in a setting that they actually make a difference in. In lower tier: recon, distraction, deep uav, strikes, component distruction, etc. seem to make a lot less of a difference than they do in higher matches, at least from what I have seen on multiple different video sources, and what generally makes sense as skill levels rise.

I really hope I get to that level, but I doubt I ever will if I essentially get penalized for playing light mechs.

Edited by Horky, 02 May 2023 - 05:56 AM.

[epikt]

Light mechs can deal a great amount of damage too. Actually, my best scores and higher kill counts were done piloting light mechs.
Be sure you have enough weaponry, and that you're using it as much as you can - your speed allows you to reposition quickly and always be in the fight.
Keep practicing, and you'll get results.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Well, there's also nothing preventing you from playing multiple classes. Some mechs are just going to be better for a player while their other mechs collect dust but that doesn't mean you can't ever play them.

[Horseman]

Horky, on 02 May 2023 - 05:53 AM, said:

This pmuch makes me resent my favorite class of mech, light. It makes me feel like I need to pilot something else to be able to eventually play the mechs I truly like in a setting that they actually make a difference in. In lower tier: recon, distraction, deep uav, strikes, component distruction, etc. seem to make a lot less of a difference than they do in higher matches, at least from what I have seen on multiple different video sources, and what generally makes sense as skill levels rise.

I really hope I get to that level, but I doubt I ever will if I essentially get penalized for playing light mechs.

Don't cling to the premise that light mechs are relegated to support roles - they are not. Get a Kit Fox D, slap on 4xASRM6 and laugh like a madman while making Assaults cry mommy. Or slap PRIME pods and P left arm onto any KFX CT, then chuck in an UAC20 for very much the same end result. Or take the Urbanmech R80 and use its' amazing ECM quirk to flank enemies and stab them in the back while they flail unable to detect you on their radar. There's a whole world of sneaky, stabby light mechs out there to bring the pain to your opponents.

[Horky]

Horseman, on 02 May 2023 - 03:07 PM, said:

Don't cling to the premise that light mechs are relegated to support roles - they are not. Get a Kit Fox D, slap on 4xASRM6 and laugh like a madman while making Assaults cry mommy. Or slap PRIME pods and P left arm onto any KFX CT, then chuck in an UAC20 for very much the same end result. Or take the Urbanmech R80 and use its' amazing ECM quirk to flank enemies and stab them in the back while they flail unable to detect you on their radar. There's a whole world of sneaky, stabby light mechs out there to bring the pain to your opponents.

This goes back to the original point of this forum post-- Everything is dependent on damage and win. Lights are very capable of high damage, as I have discovered, but their utility is hardly rewarded when playing a role other than "zug zug me do damage"

Edit: The current solutions being posted have been: Play other things than light to do more damage, there are more light builds that do more damage, other builds do more damage, don't worry about preventing damage or flagging targets so you can do more damage, map objectives don't matter if you kill the opposing team, etc. Nobody has mentioned NARC as that's probably more of a meme strat.

Also - should I unlock mechs or are the releasing legendary mechs just are that much better? It really has been a thing.... I would love to play my Fafnir but the Juggernaut just seems better in every way.

Edited by Horky, 16 May 2023 - 11:54 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The legendary mechs do seem pretty good, if it matches the kind of thing you want to play.

[epikt]

Horky, on 16 May 2023 - 11:46 PM, said:

should I unlock mechs or are the releasing legendary mechs just are that much better? It really has been a thing.... I would love to play my Fafnir but the Juggernaut just seems better in every way.

Don't feel forced to buy legendary mechs, there's a lot to do with the regular variants.
About the Fafnir in particular, sure, the Juggernaut has 8 ballistic hardpoints, but it's only good if you want to boat AC/5s or AC/2s. It does not have quirks for some specific weapons like the others (UAC/20, Gauss, etc), nor energy/missile hardpoint to mix weapons. It doesn't have ECM either.