290 replies to this topic

[Kynesis]

Games now frequently consist of both teams hiding while being picked apart, until one side feels that their snipers have been more successful and then it's all just clean up.
It's not interesting, it's definitely not fun and it essentially makes the game unplayable for me.

I'm just one person though - does the community more generally like or prefer the game as it is now?

[Rondoe]

Snipers are cowards. plain and simple. Probably those who are pimple popping still and feel the need to inflate their ego by tearing things up while in their little safe space because they lack the Cajones to do any real fighting.

Kinda like that guy that thinks he's god with all the D A T A, and then complains about missles.

Edited by Rondoe, 25 March 2023 - 07:12 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Its kind of been like that for years really.

Actually its gotten a lot worse lately.

Edited by PocketYoda, 06 May 2023 - 03:27 AM.

[Blood Rose]

Its been getting notably worse in the last two years, with the Cauldron adjustments. A good number of maps are now pure sniping heaven. Frozen City? Divided by a gigantic almost coverless trench. River City? Good look crossing the river. Crimson Straight? Not too bad so long as you push over the saddle. And those are 'urban' maps, then you have nonsense like HPG - AKA Sniperbowl, or Canyon Network/Frozen Canyons - AKA sniper ring, or Terra Therma - AKA Sniper Arena. Or the new map, which is literally a sniper bowl with a hill in the middle. Ive had games where both teams brawlers sat on either side of the hill staring at each other with UAV's as the snipers duelled it out. Whomever lost the sniping duel lost the game.

[JediPanther]

If only there were a weapon to counter static stationary game play. Like a bunch of missiles or some thing you could fire from long range that could work as a counter.

[Vonbach]

Well every single map caters to the sniper people so why wouldn't there be snipers all over the place.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeha, but "Stand in the open and get shot" is a hard sell.

[Widowmaker1981]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 02:44 PM, said:

I like brawling, swirling-dogfight type scraps.

I don't like it enough to mistake "fight me like a *******" for "come out into the open and fight me like a MAYUNN."

If we're on opposing teams my job is to destroy your mech. The finer details are unimportant and I'm not going to crawl up your tailpipe if I'm running mid or long and you're running brawl or knife. Reversed, I intend to try and make your mid or long range loadout as unlikely as possible to make me useless or dead, and if I have to squat in a dark corner somewhere to draw you down for it that's what I will do. Do I have cover? I will try to use cover. Do I have range? I will try to use range. My job in that match is not to give you a fair fight, it's to carry my weight in my team. My job is to make yours harder.

Yes, exactly this.

I personally prefer to play mid / long range mechs and trade from cover, im not generally a fan of big clusterf*ck brawls because you arent entirely in charge of whether you have a good game - if everyones out of cover and you are the one who gets called first, you're going down no matter how good you are.

But the point is to play to the strengths of your mech and your preferred playstyle and accept that others will do the same, and thats fine. Its a more interesting game because there are multiple ways to play it. (that said, there is a special place in hell reserved for machine gun / flamer light mech pilots >_>)

And it is absolutely possible to play brawl range mechs fine on most maps. Most of my current favourite IS builds are ones with 300m range snubs, and the only times i feel totally screwed with an all snub loadout are Frozen City assault or Alpine on modes other than domination.

[Blood Rose]

JediPanther, on 25 March 2023 - 12:09 PM, said:

If only there were a weapon to counter static stationary game play. Like a bunch of missiles or some thing you could fire from long range that could work as a counter.

We used too. Unfortunately certain people whined hard and now LRM's are a joke with awful mechanics, less range than they should have, and poor target retention. "Just get ur own l0cks" I hear the usual suspects cry, "D0nt be a coward, ur just mad l0ck l3ach". Sure, but my 80 LRM tubes are not going to win in a fight against your quad ERLL or GaussxERPPC monster, not when you outrange me and deal consistant pinpoint damage with no counters whereas every mech and its mechanic can mount AMS and ECM.

[JediPanther]

Blood Rose, on 25 March 2023 - 06:39 PM, said:

We used too. Unfortunately certain people whined hard and now LRM's are a joke with awful mechanics, less range than they should have, and poor target retention. "Just get ur own l0cks" I hear the usual suspects cry, "D0nt be a coward, ur just mad l0ck l3ach". Sure, but my 80 LRM tubes are not going to win in a fight against your quad ERLL or GaussxERPPC monster, not when you outrange me and deal consistant pinpoint damage with no counters whereas every mech and its mechanic can mount AMS and ECM.

I know. It was the lrms that made the game fun for me and the whole reason I even bothered to go max level founder with the game. Then the wussy cry hards whined until they won. Look at ever single lrm stat and compare it to any other and lrms are the worst weapon by far in the game right now. Hell I pulled every single velocity,range,and speed stat and posted exactly that in the data lrm thread.

Now I don't give a ****. I got red dead redeption 2 after it was on sale with the past steam sales and in just the few days I've had it I've put in 35 hours into the story mode. I've had no reason,desire or incentive to play any of my 170 mechs in mwo. Mwo is so dam boring to rdr2.

[feeWAIVER]

JediPanther, on 25 March 2023 - 12:09 PM, said:

If only there were a weapon to counter static stationary game play. Like a bunch of missiles or some thing you could fire from long range that could work as a counter.

Don't encourage people to bring LRMS. That's not a solution.

If you are having trouble with snipers you should ask yourself a few things:
1. How big and dumb is my mech?
2. Have I invested in a fast enough engine?
3. Have I considered investing in kinetic burst/speed tweak?

[BLACKR0SE]

There's no point in using it when everyone else is a sniper. I don't enjoy.

If the weapons you use are special to you, it will be fun. It's not fun to have the same gun for everyone.

[LordNothing]

theres lots of things you can do to counter sniping without killing the playstyle outright.

tweak the float curves on erlls to do less damage up close.
reflective armor.
blueshield to counter ppcs.

things like gauss and lerms have enough counters.

[feeWAIVER]

LordNothing, on 25 March 2023 - 08:10 PM, said:

tweak the float curves on erlls to do less damage up close.

There is no sense in reducing erll dmg up close. You are already paying for the extended range with extra heat, cooldown, and burn time.

[L1f3H4ck]

It's the new map. closing into brawling distance is a lot harder than on any other map currently so people bring more long / extreme range, even if it is not their preferred bracket, to not get shafted which means more long range in the queue overall.

Mimimi lurms, y'all have another topic to moan about?

Edit: If you're a brawler on purple map, go to the high ground anyway, clear out their snipers and circle back. the team that does not contest the ridge seems to get farmed more often than not.

Edited by Dakkalistic, 26 March 2023 - 12:36 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Blood Rose, on 25 March 2023 - 06:39 PM, said:

We used too. Unfortunately certain people whined hard and now LRM's are a joke with awful mechanics, less range than they should have, and poor target retention. "Just get ur own l0cks" I hear the usual suspects cry, "D0nt be a coward, ur just mad l0ck l3ach". Sure, but my 80 LRM tubes are not going to win in a fight against your quad ERLL or GaussxERPPC monster, not when you outrange me and deal consistant pinpoint damage with no counters whereas every mech and its mechanic can mount AMS and ECM.

Fair assesment.

Truth be told, LRMs kinda lost a bit of their point when they were made to compete in DF -- of course they lose out on Dakka, Gauss, and lasers (with good aim). With ECMs and AMS covers, truly the LRMs as topping was lost to LRMs as boats.

[Saved By The Bell]

Sniping is not a big problem.
The problem is good superb snipers group against low tiers.

Yesterday DATAs video... Its not about sniping.
Just tell me, was it fun for both teams?

[Runecarver]

feeWAIVER, on 25 March 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

Don't encourage people to bring LRMS. That's not a solution.

If you are having trouble with snipers you should ask yourself a few things:
1. How big and dumb is my mech?
2. Have I invested in a fast enough engine?
3. Have I considered investing in kinetic burst/speed tweak?

So play fast mechs and try to suicide charge the opposing sniper battery. Only to find out most of the time there's not enough cover to approach these sniper positions without taking so much damage you're at a massive disadvantage.

feeWAIVER, on 25 March 2023 - 11:08 PM, said:

There is no sense in reducing erll dmg up close. You are already paying for the extended range with extra heat, cooldown, and burn time.

Meanwhile, missiles not only have spread and less overall range, but a minimum range where they're not allowed to deal damage while erll (and every other long range weapon) get to keep pumping out pinpoint damage.

Dakkalistic, on 26 March 2023 - 12:32 AM, said:

-snip-

Nearly every map we've had introduced in the last few years has favored snipers heavily. You should consider thinking before you post in an attempt to sound smart and smug in your self-perceived superiority.

[Curccu]

feeWAIVER, on 25 March 2023 - 11:08 PM, said:

There is no sense in reducing erll dmg up close. You are already paying for the extended range with extra heat, cooldown, and burn time.

If you compare 1x Heavy peep and 2x IS ERLL and other one of theses has way shorter range, have to lead/ has velocity, has HARD minimum range, worse DPS, worse Damage per Heat.
Only real advantage HPPC has is that there is no burn time.

Overall advantages of ERLL compared to LL (how often do you see good players using normal is LL btw?) are that good that minor extra heat and burn time doesn't matter really.

[Blood Rose]

feeWAIVER, on 25 March 2023 - 07:32 PM, said:

Don't encourage people to bring LRMS. That's not a solution.

Agreed, because LRM's are crap and a waste of tonnage. If your bringing a missile boat bring MRM's

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If you are having trouble with snipers you should ask yourself a few things:

"How come almost every quirk and mechanics adjustment patch and every map change or new map has benefitted this one playstyle overwhelmingly in the past few years"?

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1. How big and dumb is my mech?

Why am I being penalised for bringing a big mech that wants to be within 600 metres of the target?

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2. Have I invested in a fast enough engine?

Given the lack of timed convergence and the preponderance for aim b machine aided targeting that some players like to use, you have to be hitting 90ish KPH to have a chance at not being hit by non-hitscan weapons. 70 kph is the bare minimum for pokeing and crossing small gaps.

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3. Have I considered investing in kinetic burst/speed tweak?

Worth it on faster mechs, if you cant hit 80kph is not really worth it.

So, overall, your ideal meta consists of long range high damage sniping platforms duking it out with lightning boom and zoom glass cannons skirmishing in the margins and trying to achieve a breakthrough so as to hit the other teams snipers. That sounds shite to me m8.