241 replies to this topic

[Papaspud]

I see there are going to be LRM buffs, which they do need. The problem we have is everyone spends the game hiding and running now- it is going to be worse with effective missiles. I hope I am wrong...but it is terrible already, and I don't see it get any better.

[Bud Crue]

I saw on the now locked thread about weapons changes https://mwomercs.com...aks-and-rumors/ some folks were complaining about upcoming nerfs to LRMs. What are the buffs that you speak of?

Edited by Bud Crue, 13 January 2024 - 05:34 AM.

[kalashnikity]

[Redacted]

Let's balance and cater the game to the 1% players, some of whom might be only 1% because they balanced the weapons around their own play style, but that's beside the point?

The ego and boasting in that thread (on both sides) was "sickatating" too.

Guess what, I've played Mechwarrior2 since since 1996, I guess that makes me a thupper engineer too! And with a join date of 2011 before MWO even started!

Quick, someone run off to Jarl and cyber stalk me to decide it I'm worthy to talk on the forum! ROFL

Now I'm waiting for someone to tell me they wrote the code for MW2 and are therfore even more dupper thupper enginnery.

Seriously the gaslighting was getting nauseating. Just be honest. You don't like LRMS, you don't want them disturbing YOUR game. LOL.

To, Bad. 99% of the player base does NOT want them nerfed into oblivion like some of you intend to do and have openly stated multiple times.

[martian]

Papaspud, on 13 January 2024 - 05:21 AM, said:

I see there are going to be LRM buffs, which they do need. The problem we have is everyone spends the game hiding and running now- it is going to be worse with effective missiles. I hope I am wrong...but it is terrible already, and I don't see it get any better.

Would not be better to wait for the official Patch Notes, so we know the exact values such as Velocity, Radar Derp values, Artemis IV bonuses, etc.?

For example, if somebody says that "the LRM speed is going to be nerfed", I do not know if LRM will lose 5% or 50% of their velocity. etc.

Hard to discuss anything.

[ScrapIron Prime]

There are updated notes out on the Discord. They're not final until they post the patch notes here, but...

NERFS

LRM trajectories will flatten out so they fire at a shallower angle. (Max height missiles rise to will be 100m instead of the 150m it is now, I believe.)
LRM indirect fire speeds will drop from 190m/s to 160m/s.
LRM Direct fire speeds drop from 266m/s to 224m/s.

Artemis LRM speeds of both kinds will not drop.

BUFFS

Advanced Sensor Package provides a 20% boost to TAG range.
Radar Deprivation changes from 19% per node to 16% per node.


So basically, direct fire LRMs will still suck, indirect fire LRMs will suck more, and you can pay the Artemis Tax to minimize the nerf. The increased lock time with the Radar Dep nerf is supposed to offset the slower velocity. I have my doubts, will test.

No information on how NARC affects Artemis. Currently, NARC makes Artemis missiles WORSE. So paying the Artemis Tax might net you nothing if you have a NARC mech on your team.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 13 January 2024 - 08:37 AM.

[Bud Crue]

ScrapIron Prime, on 13 January 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

Artemis LRM speeds of both kinds will not drop.

While I certainly am one of those people that dislike LRMS (I hate playing them, but I could not care less regarding their existence in this game or others playing them), I do like the idea that Artemis ought to provide more substantive benefits than it currently does. I like this aspect of the changes. I'd like to see Active Probe to have some more substantive benefits as well.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Bud Crue, on 13 January 2024 - 08:50 AM, said:

While I certainly am one of those people that dislike LRMS (I hate playing them, but I could not care less regarding their existence in this game or others playing them), I do like the idea that Artemis ought to provide more substantive benefits than it currently does. I like this aspect of the changes. I'd like to see Active Probe to have some more substantive benefits as well.

Active Probe has a tiny benefit most folks don't talk about. The speed that you get a missile lock is related to range to target and max sensor range. The longer you make max sensor range, the quicker you lock your target. The benefit is TINY though. I'd be in favor of it being more, but that's not the sort of change the Cauldron would be comfortable with.

[Vxheous]

ScrapIron Prime, on 13 January 2024 - 08:56 AM, said:

Active Probe has a tiny benefit most folks don't talk about. The speed that you get a missile lock is related to range to target and max sensor range. The longer you make max sensor range, the quicker you lock your target. The benefit is TINY though. I'd be in favor of it being more, but that's not the sort of change the Cauldron would be comfortable with.

What would you know about what changes the Cauldron would/wouldn't be comfortable with? I don't LRM often, and when I do it's always with a narcer, and I think lock times should be quicker as a baseline, or targeting computers should actually speed up lock times. Missiles are the only weapon system that gets zero effect from T comps. I'm not in cauldron though.

Edited by Vxheous, 13 January 2024 - 09:05 AM.

[CFC Conky]

I don’t know what to say about LRMS. If I get attacked by your garden variety lurmer, it’s not a big deal. Good players and/or organized teams have a much better chance of killing me, like they do with any other weapon in the game.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 13 January 2024 - 10:04 AM.

[Tarteso]

ScrapIron Prime, on 13 January 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

There are updated notes out on the Discord. They're not final until they post the patch notes here, but...

NERFS

LRM trajectories will flatten out so they fire at a shallower angle. (Max height missiles rise to will be 100m instead of the 150m it is now, I believe.)
LRM indirect fire speeds will drop from 190m/s to 160m/s.
LRM Direct fire speeds drop from 266m/s to 224m/s.

Artemis LRM speeds of both kinds will not drop.

BUFFS

Advanced Sensor Package provides a 20% boost to TAG range.
Radar Deprivation changes from 19% per node to 16% per node.


So basically, direct fire LRMs will still suck, indirect fire LRMs will suck more, and you can pay the Artemis Tax to minimize the nerf. The increased lock time with the Radar Dep nerf is supposed to offset the slower velocity. I have my doubts, will test.

No information on how NARC affects Artemis. Currently, NARC makes Artemis missiles WORSE. So paying the Artemis Tax might net you nothing if you have a NARC mech on your team.

So, another laughable nerf to raderp, but a hard nerf for LRMs, as expected. Indirect fire soooo opressive... but they are also giving a hard nerf to LOS.
I can see clearly how they are going to fix the feast and famine thing around LRMs: always famine, except for the guys enjoying the benefits of having a spotter/narcer. No way to drop solo with LRMs. Just like right now, but worse.

[Vxheous]

Tarteso, on 13 January 2024 - 10:08 AM, said:

So, another laughable nerf to raderp, but a hard nerf for LRMs, as expected. Indirect fire soooo opressive... but they are also giving a hard nerf to LOS.
I can see clearly how they are going to fix the feast and famine thing around LRMs: always famine, except for the guys enjoying the benefits of having a spotter/narcer. No way to drop solo with LRMs. Just like right now, but worse.

95% max radar dep ->80% max radar dep isn't laughable.

[kalashnikity]

So now it will take ~10 seconds to send LRMs to max range, if they can even get there due to the flatter curve. Even a Fafnir can leave cover shoot and hide again in that amount of time!

And we are ok with Cauldron wrecking them as a weapon system, due to their own internal and openly admitted bias?

Blue laser boys will now be practically immune to LRMs, giving more lock time is meaningless in all they hit is a rock.

I guess its my fault for pulling off a handful of 1000+dmg LRM in an IS mech (clan LRMS are broken) games last month? My bad.

Blue Laser Bois will now be practically immune to DFA now.

[Curccu]

Meh didn't really see reason to drop base speed, maybe just extra speed with artemis....

[Shineplasma]

kalashnikity, on 13 January 2024 - 06:37 AM, said:

[redacted]

If that's what you took away from the thread, you either didn't read the analysis thoroughly or don't understand it.

I suggest taking your concerns to the cauldron directly:

https://discord.com/invite/gWcTNUTJ

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 15 January 2024 - 06:30 AM.
quote clean-up

[Novakaine]

Shineplasma, on 13 January 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

If that's what you took away from the thread, you either didn't read the analysis thoroughly or don't understand it.

I suggest taking your concerns to the cauldron directly:

https://discord.com/invite/gWcTNUTJ

That is joke unto itself right?
The gaslighting and word salads or sickening at this point.

Edited by Novakaine, 13 January 2024 - 11:58 AM.

[Vxheous]

kalashnikity, on 13 January 2024 - 11:08 AM, said:

It is laughable when sniper bois get a full 10 second to get back behind cover, even if you already have a lock, even a fafnir can do a full peak shoot hide in 10 seconds. assuming the missiles don't his dirt on the way there.

And all the LRM haters start to gaslight, again, unsurprising, bunch of ___s up in here.

Hmm, indirect fire velocity is 160m/s, +15% from skill tree gives you 184m/s, before any LRM velocity quirks from specific mechs. If said missile were to have to travel 10 seconds, it would reach....1840m. Since LRM range is ~1000m with skill tree, max missile travel time is ~5 seconds.

But let's not let actual facts get in the way of your rants.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Vxheous, on 13 January 2024 - 09:03 AM, said:

Missiles are the only weapon system that gets zero effect from T comps

To be fair, that's kinda what Artemis/Apollo acted like in TT, it was just designed goofy since the cost was per launcher rather than just based on the sum of compatible weapons like TComps. I kinda would like to see artemis just flat out dropped in favor of TComps, simplifies things and makes it more reasonable with smaller launchers.

[Besh]

Bud Crue, on 13 January 2024 - 08:50 AM, said:

While I certainly am one of those people that dislike LRMS (I hate playing them, but I could not care less regarding their existence in this game or others playing them), I do like the idea that Artemis ought to provide more substantive benefits than it currently does. I like this aspect of the changes. I'd like to see Active Probe to have some more substantive benefits as well.

am very much sure I am about 8 years behind re Artemis ( meaning I dont really know what it does these days ), but I always thought the spread reduction in itself was not unsubstantial .

[Ihlrath]

Nerfing LRMs again at this point is just silly.

[Bud Crue]

Besh, on 13 January 2024 - 01:32 PM, said:

am very much sure I am about 8 years behind re Artemis ( meaning I dont really know what it does these days ), but I always thought the spread reduction in itself was not unsubstantial .

In terms of LRM boats I have found that for most builds the cost of losing 1-2 launchers or being forced to drop down to the next increment to gain better spread via Artemis is just not worth it in most circumstances. I.e. I seem to get better results with more/bigger launchers without Artemis than with fewer/smaller launchers with better spread via Artemis. As an aside, for me this is true with quite a few SRM boats as well (e.g., I get consistently better results running 8 SRM6 on a Summoner as compared to the 6 SRM6+A build).