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Pplfd Is Dumb!


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#1 feeWAIVER

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 05:00 AM

This has been on my mind for a while.
I wonder who came up with the acronym PPFLD?
I challenge you to find any other game that uses this terminology.

PPFLD is just direct damage. DD. Simple.
Lasers are a DOT. They do Damage Over Time. Simple.

Never in all my years have I heard the bloated acronym PPFLD until I played MWO.




#2 Moadebe

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 05:25 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 09 May 2024 - 05:00 AM, said:

This has been on my mind for a while.
I wonder who came up with the acronym PPFLD?
I challenge you to find any other game that uses this terminology.

PPFLD is just direct damage. DD. Simple.
Lasers are a DOT. They do Damage Over Time. Simple.

Never in all my years have I heard the bloated acronym PPFLD until I played MWO.


Ill be honest. I have heard what PPFLD means twice and I still cant remember accurately (I think pinpoint full laser damage). Yet it makes sense when you do.

Like it really should have a better term.

#3 martian

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 05:36 AM

View PostMoadebe, on 09 May 2024 - 05:25 AM, said:

Ill be honest. I have heard what PPFLD means twice and I still cant remember accurately (I think pinpoint full laser damage). Yet it makes sense when you do.

Like it really should have a better term.
Pin Point Front Loaded Damage

Weapons such as standard Gauss Rifle, standard PPC, Inner Sphere AC-20, etc. Weapons with no duration, spread or splash damage - just one projectile that hits just one section of enemy 'Mech.

#4 Gasboy

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 05:42 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 09 May 2024 - 05:00 AM, said:

This has been on my mind for a while.
I wonder who came up with the acronym PPFLD?
I challenge you to find any other game that uses this terminology.

PPFLD is just direct damage. DD. Simple.
Lasers are a DOT. They do Damage Over Time. Simple.

Never in all my years have I heard the bloated acronym PPFLD until I played MWO.


LRMs are direct damage too, hence the need for the 'pinpoint' part, since LRMs spew their damage all over.

Wierd thing to get upset over, but you do you.

#5 feeWAIVER

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 06:47 AM

View PostGasboy, on 09 May 2024 - 05:42 AM, said:


LRMs are direct damage too, hence the need for the 'pinpoint' part, since LRMs spew their damage all over.

Wierd thing to get upset over, but you do you.


LRMs are AoE dmg.

#6 LordNothing

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 07:07 AM

games have weird terminology now. im not sure how much of that is gamer newspeak cruft or franchise specific jargon. i just assumed we inherited some terms from table top, which i have never played.

if you want to complain about how there are more ppfld weapons in this game than their ought to be. or how free precision is anti-sim and therefore sucks. control loops have settling times, servos have actuation times. calling it skill when weapons always go where you point them. real snipers sync up their breathing to their heart beat and time their trigger pull to the interval. thats skill.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 May 2024 - 07:09 AM.


#7 RockmachinE

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 07:34 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 09 May 2024 - 07:07 AM, said:

or how free precision is anti-sim and therefore sucks. control loops have settling times, servos have actuation times. calling it skill when weapons always go where you point them. real snipers sync up their breathing to their heart beat and time their trigger pull to the interval. thats skill.


This is not a simulation. The game never claims to be. What you've described is a completely fictional idea in your mind and has no bearing on the reality and mechanics of a computer game.

Reflexes, aim, positioning, timing, situational awareness, and game mechanics understanding are what matters. Its a measure of your nervous system, your hand eye coordination and your ability to process information. This is what constitutes skill in a computer game.

Whether you consider this skillful or not is an issue of your expectations, which in your case are completely unrealistic. What you've described has zero relevance to a bunch of people sitting in front of computers playing a game set in a fictional universe with giant robots.

Edited by RockmachinE, 09 May 2024 - 08:05 AM.


#8 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:27 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 09 May 2024 - 06:47 AM, said:

LRMs are AoE dmg.

They are not, you don't call a shotgun an AoE weapon, or at least no one I know of would call it that. Generally explosives are considered AoE.

The difference is just how damage is applied. AoE weapons have their damage done multiplied effectively to how many are in the blast radius, shotguns or weapons with multiple pellets still have their damage capped, even with penetration.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 09 May 2024 - 08:30 AM.


#9 KursedVixen

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:31 AM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 09 May 2024 - 06:47 AM, said:

LRMs are AoE dmg.
aren't all missiles? except the new thunderbolt missiles?

View PostQuicksilver Aberration, on 09 May 2024 - 08:27 AM, said:

They are not, you don't call a shotgun an AoE weapon, or at least no one I know of would call it that. Generally explosives are considered AoE.

The difference is just how damage is applied. AoE weapons have their damage done multiplied effectively to how many are in the blast radius, shotguns or weapons with multiple pellets still have their damage capped, even with penetration.
they are not PPFL either.

#10 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:35 AM

View PostKursedVixen, on 09 May 2024 - 08:31 AM, said:

they are not PPFL either.

I never said they were, they are just front-loaded damage (at least IS are).

Lasers for example are pinpoint but not front-loaded damage.

Really all these terms are capturing about how does the weapon apply damage over space and time. Pinpoint vs Spread and Front-Loaded vs Over Time, and the reason these are important is that weapons that spread damage over space and time need compensation in some way for that whether it be higher damage potential, heat efficiency, faster refire, etc

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 09 May 2024 - 08:39 AM.


#11 Nine-Ball

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 09:00 AM

Call them Instant Damage weapons as opposed to Damage over (short) Time.

#12 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 12:20 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 09 May 2024 - 07:07 AM, said:

if you want to complain about how there are more ppfld weapons in this game than their ought to be. or how free precision is anti-sim and therefore sucks. control loops have settling times, servos have actuation times. calling it skill when weapons always go where you point them. real snipers sync up their breathing to their heart beat and time their trigger pull to the interval. thats skill.

I missed this but honestly, who cares how things work in real life? Real snipers also can wait for hours for the right shot, I don't think anyone wants to play a game where I wait that long. Sims and games are pretty much diametrically opposed goals, games put gameplay above everything else (what "feels" fun/good), while sims put realism above everything else. This conversation goes way back to my arguments with good ol Bishop Steiner. Some people want Mechwarrior to be a true sim, but even back in 2001 with MW4, the game had already started to emphasize gameplay over simulation elements (let's not talk about MechAssault, which IMO was an overcorrection much like DnD 4E was)

Even then, I think people just misunderstand the skill that goes into aiming/crosshair placement even in games with hitscan only weapons. The skill level doesnt drop because you have hitscan, it shifts because certain actions become more reliable.

#13 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 12:42 PM

Hardly an authority on it, but I always assumed the term "PPFLD" was invented here and unique to this game. It was initially written out, but the community coalesced around the phrase "pinpoint, front loaded damage" and the acronym fairly quickly. It's really a technical, mechanical description. This was probably about 10 years ago when we first started getting mechs that could carry many PPCs, or gauss+PPCs, and, crucially, after host state rewind was added (lag compensation). Before HSR, nearly everyone used lasers because you had to aim ahead of your target, and variable ping rates made that difficult. You couldn't shoot lights with ACs and expect to hit what you saw. In fact, it wouldn't even fire when you clicked the button if your ping was high because of the server authoritative nature of it all. So in the early closed beta days, you mainly used lasers and lock-on missiles. Once those slug weapons became more viable, and once we had more mechs that could mount multiple of them, you started to see PPFLD as superior. Especially, if you could poptart with a loadout like that.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 09 May 2024 - 12:42 PM.


#14 LordNothing

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 07:31 PM

View PostQuicksilver Aberration, on 09 May 2024 - 12:20 PM, said:

I missed this but honestly, who cares how things work in real life?


people who like simulators. and i admit none of this is anything you will find irl. but i like guns that act like guns, i like robots that act like robots, and i like physics. many people are here instead of some other shooter because they dont like the quaternion with gun games with no reguard for angular momentum (especially when your machine weighs 80 tons). we can hadwave the issues with ground pressure and how minimizing frontal cross section is more important for reducing the effect of incoming fire. thats why people hill hump rather than do something exciting, and you have maps with exaggerated terrain where all the slopes are steeper than 45 degrees, except a few 30 degree ramps in contrived locations. so you end up using a common tank tactic where you have your infantry dig a position you can park your tank and shoot mostly with impunity. people use a real tactic but the game is kind of over simplified and removes a lot of the chaos you find on a battlefield.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 May 2024 - 07:43 PM.


#15 LordNothing

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:17 PM

View PostRockmachinE, on 09 May 2024 - 07:34 AM, said:


This is not a simulation. The game never claims to be. What you've described is a completely fictional idea in your mind and has no bearing on the reality and mechanics of a computer game.

Reflexes, aim, positioning, timing, situational awareness, and game mechanics understanding are what matters. Its a measure of your nervous system, your hand eye coordination and your ability to process information. This is what constitutes skill in a computer game.

Whether you consider this skillful or not is an issue of your expectations, which in your case are completely unrealistic. What you've described has zero relevance to a bunch of people sitting in front of computers playing a game set in a fictional universe with giant robots.


reality has no bearing on reality. yea that needs to be a bumper sticker.

mechwarrior 2 had less sim features than this game and was marketed as a simulator (it was on the box). fact of the matter is the technology has moved forward to a point where you can simulate things you would have had to fudge previously because it was too computationally demanding for the machines of the day. now you can have lasers that act like lasers, ballistics that act like ballistics (gun people find it ridiculous how gamers expect to empty a clip putting every every round through the hole created by the first), guidence systems that act like guidence systems. the biggest disappointment i have with modern gaming is that we still fudge things we dont have to.

im not really asking for a redux of the physics code here. the game already supports features that are pro-sim. you just need to choose better numbers. accuracy is based on skill, precision is more based on the weapon system, i really only want to see the latter be more chaotic. give everything spread and make everything burst and break perfect convergence. then skill becomes a matter of managing chaos.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 May 2024 - 08:18 PM.


#16 martian

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:19 PM

I think that the "PPFLD" abbreviation is established firmly in the MWO fan community. In my opinion, attempts to re-invent the wheel are not going to be successful.

#17 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:21 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 09 May 2024 - 07:31 PM, said:

people who like simulators.

I'm gonna be honest, simulators are best left to single player if only because the target audience is miniscule, I don't see it growing or staying popular enough for a multiplayer game to be worth the effort.

The next mechwarrior multiplayer game will likely have a choice to make, capture the chaos of the Battlefield series or the BR games, or go for a more competitive tactical shooter with stompy robots. Simulator seems like a good way to appease the nichest of niches and have a playerbase less than the size of current MWO. Neither of which really like chaos through not being able to use weapons because everything is imprecise. Regardless of what you want, it feels bad to a majority of people when things don't go where you point. Ask people whether they like the gunplay of Counterstrike or Destiny (which use predictable recoil patterns) over things like current Halo, old CoD, or Borderlands (all of which feature CoF and reticle bloom) and I'm pretty sure you are gonna get the former because most players aren't "gun people" so they don't care about whether it's realistic or not.

Not to mention how reliability impacts the viability of weapons. The more risk you add the bigger the reward. If I have a chance of missing a target, you better believe it better hit harder than it does now. Especially if we are talking about messing with convergence which is stupid itself because guess what, mechs like the old Gaussapult were never really impacted by delay convergence back during closed beta, but awful mechs like the Vindicator or pre-fix Nightstar would've suffered immensely.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 09 May 2024 - 08:27 PM.


#18 LordNothing

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:32 PM

im rather annoyed with the term hit detection. all my algorithms books call in collision detection. though i think this is more a part of the bigger trend of dumbing down language for brevity (kids with their single syllable vocabularies communicating with the efficacy of cave men), or narcissism (intentionally misspelling/mispronouncing things to look/sound cool). my hot english teacher is rolling in her grave.

#19 Denegamez

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:35 PM

THIS IS THE "FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS" OF GAMING >_>

#20 Wraith 1

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Posted 09 May 2024 - 08:38 PM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 09 May 2024 - 05:00 AM, said:

I challenge you to find any other game that uses this terminology.


I challenge you to find any other game that gives every opponent multiple segments that can be damaged and destroyed independently, making pinpoint and front-loaded important distinctions to make in the first place.

No, really, I'd love to have more than one game to play.





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