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The Tier Lie


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#61 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 21 November 2025 - 06:54 PM

View Posta 5 year old with an Uzi, on 20 November 2025 - 05:37 PM, said:

8v8 was better

I mean to be clear, I prefer 8v8 as well. I've disliked 12v12 since they introduced it, but half of the community seems to prefer it and I can understand PGI not wanting to rock the boat on that. I also don't think it's specifically average or below average, there are some even at higher levels of comp that prefer it so it and those in lower tiers that prefer 8v8. I don't think it's specific to skill level, I'd actually argue it comes back to what people want out of this game.

Some like the smaller 8v8 matches where your impact is more easily felt, while some like 12v12 and want more because they want this game to feel more like Battlefield (with respawns, etc), and then you have the population that for the most part is long gone which are the hardcore sim folks who want "realism" over good game design.

The first two are pretty commonly supported by a single game these days......provided they have the population (see Battlefield and Call of Duty, probably some of the biggest non-BR shooters these days).

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 21 November 2025 - 07:17 PM.


#62 KursedVixen

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Posted 22 November 2025 - 02:53 AM

View PostIlfi, on 20 November 2025 - 07:20 PM, said:

Probably. But 8v8 doesn't adequately protect the feelings of weaker-than-average players. Having 11, or 15, or 47 other players to hide behind, copy, and work with gives you that many more ways out of a terrible situation. Similarly, it gives better-than-average players that many more weak links to drag along to the finish line kicking and screaming. Pretty sure Solaris is dead as hell for similar reasons-- in both 1v1 and Team modes.

Shame we can't go back to the days of IS Only quirk-free 8v8 on OG Forest Canyon, Caustic Valley and Frozen City, but it is what it is.
the only one of those maps that still exist today as it's OG form is frozen city.... i miss the cave fights in forest colony... the figuring out where to get up on classic canyon(before they made it handicap accessable) I use to like caustic but I grew to dislike it.

I guess you could kinda say Classic canyon kinda still exist as snow canyon(can't for the life of me remember the name of the map) ,but it's still not the same.

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 November 2025 - 02:56 AM.


#63 martian

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Posted 22 November 2025 - 03:17 AM

View PostKursedVixen, on 22 November 2025 - 02:53 AM, said:

I guess you could kinda say Classic canyon kinda still exist as snow canyon(can't for the life of me remember the name of the map) ,but it's still not the same.


I believe that you mean the "Hibernal Rift" map:

Posted Image

The "Hibernal Rift" map and the "Canyon Network" map have diverged so much over the years that today they are bear only some superficial similarity.

#64 Fnord Asteroid

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Posted 24 November 2025 - 12:36 PM

Happy Holidays everyone!

mixing tiers is fine as long as the matchmaker is using a variety of metrics to create as close to fair matches as possible.

as it is, the fact that it tries to pull players towards an even win loss record means the damn thing creates stacked matches and make us eat it.

pardon while i slip into a stream of thought ... im not a great player, or even particularly good. Decent. In a hot war, i probably wouldn't make it back, but there would be a story about me and the crazy **** i pulled off, guaranteed...PVP has always been tough for me, but i can offset it (in this game only which i why i like it...) with decent reflexes and almost prescient real world tactical acumen. Many are the times when i alone faced a flank that would have our team in enfilade, many are the times when i positioned myself right where the hammer would fall, got smoked, but turned the tide slightly ... heck i was even quoted once for the title of a guide in this game... Timidity is Not a Tactic. Don't know if it was good or not, Im just saying i understand some of the more 'esoteric' aspects of the gameplay, like sky-lining vrs military crest for example, something i see all the time ...

i say this to offer context to show im not just some pissy scrub who wont accept they suck when i say the game feels more like a demoralization simulator now. Most players have zero strategic conceptualization, evinced by the overwhelming popularity of the midget maps, HPG and Mining Colony, where the few available tactics are completely overwhelmed by mech loadouts and every match is a haymaker-like diddle for the middle won by the team with the meanest mechs on the periphery.

I don't think i can do it anymore, the fun is almost dead. I'll happily be a target for better players but everything combined with the pinpoint DPS of some of the mechs/players out there is just silly.

My holiday tradition for the last many years might go the way of the dodo. I will carry away some fine memories of late-night Christmas eve matches in my little spider ... the 1v1 duels to decide the match that happened fairly often, last man standing in a thrashed Centurion with one round left in the cannon ... i dont see any of that anymore

Project Zomboid is a cool project. Heck gettin smoked in Planetside almost seems preferable to the way Mechwarrior matches play out.

(the yearly cupcake being replaced by an advertisement snuffed a large part of my enthusiasm too, worse than when i got one someone already took a bite out of... it really is the little things that make or break ... i will now pack up my soap box and step back into being a figment of your collective imagination)

#65 ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 08:26 PM

View PostMrMadguy, on 19 November 2025 - 11:10 PM, said:

This is reason, why I no longer play this game. It's PVP game. It's about competing with other players. In such games balance is very important. Balance - is about things, that are out of players' control. It's very simple. It isn't interesting to play PVP game, if balance is so broken, that player doesn't have any theoretical chance to win. In short - only what we do and how we play should affect our outcome, i.e. winning or losing. Not some "external" factors, that are out of our control, like 'Mech balance or team balance.

I personally don't care, that Tier 1/2 players have longer queues. It's their problem. I don't want to see them in my matches, cuz they ruin my game. Period. I warned devs long time ago, that if they wouldn't solve certain problems, they would lose players. Matchmaking, 'Mech class balance, map design, game modes. Warned? Warned. They didn't listen. Now it's their problem, that game's population is so low, that matchmaking wouldn't function properly, even if they would allow it to.


ABSOLUTELY, THANK YOU

View PostFnord Asteroid, on 24 November 2025 - 12:36 PM, said:

Happy Holidays everyone!

mixing tiers is fine as long as the matchmaker is using a variety of metrics to create as close to fair matches as possible.

as it is, the fact that it tries to pull players towards an even win loss record means the damn thing creates stacked matches and make us eat it.

pardon while i slip into a stream of thought ... im not a great player, or even particularly good. Decent. In a hot war, i probably wouldn't make it back, but there would be a story about me and the crazy **** i pulled off, guaranteed...PVP has always been tough for me, but i can offset it (in this game only which i why i like it...) with decent reflexes and almost prescient real world tactical acumen. Many are the times when i alone faced a flank that would have our team in enfilade, many are the times when i positioned myself right where the hammer would fall, got smoked, but turned the tide slightly ... heck i was even quoted once for the title of a guide in this game... Timidity is Not a Tactic. Don't know if it was good or not, Im just saying i understand some of the more 'esoteric' aspects of the gameplay, like sky-lining vrs military crest for example, something i see all the time ...

i say this to offer context to show im not just some pissy scrub who wont accept they suck when i say the game feels more like a demoralization simulator now. Most players have zero strategic conceptualization, evinced by the overwhelming popularity of the midget maps, HPG and Mining Colony, where the few available tactics are completely overwhelmed by mech loadouts and every match is a haymaker-like diddle for the middle won by the team with the meanest mechs on the periphery.

I don't think i can do it anymore, the fun is almost dead. I'll happily be a target for better players but everything combined with the pinpoint DPS of some of the mechs/players out there is just silly.

My holiday tradition for the last many years might go the way of the dodo. I will carry away some fine memories of late-night Christmas eve matches in my little spider ... the 1v1 duels to decide the match that happened fairly often, last man standing in a thrashed Centurion with one round left in the cannon ... i dont see any of that anymore

Project Zomboid is a cool project. Heck gettin smoked in Planetside almost seems preferable to the way Mechwarrior matches play out.

(the yearly cupcake being replaced by an advertisement snuffed a large part of my enthusiasm too, worse than when i got one someone already took a bite out of... it really is the little things that make or break ... i will now pack up my soap box and step back into being a figment of your collective imagination)


COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE

View Postpbiggz, on 15 November 2025 - 10:24 PM, said:

Im low end tier 3. You are having a temper tantrum.


IM MID TIER THREE AND YOUR BEING A **** HEAD AND TROLLING

View Postw0qj, on 16 November 2025 - 09:02 AM, said:

Since when did this game became Cry Baby Online?

The Tier assignment is accurate and scientifically math-based.
Whether or not this fits in with our ego is an entirely different matter.

Go and play lots of games, look only at Damage Done and Kill Assists. Versus your own team. Versus all 24 players.
You will find a very strong correlation with your green/red arrow up/down, based on Damage Done and Kill Assists.
(There are other factors that fine-tune this, but these are rather minor consideration).

Your Team winning a match is obviously much more conductive for a "green/up" arrow for you.
Typically, only the lowest performing 2 players in your winning Team gets a "red/down" arrow. Empirical data.

Should your Team lose a match, only the best performing 2 players in your losing Team gets a "green/up" arrow. Empirical data.

I myself have observed my own hundreds of games (if not more), and above is my conclusion.

In short, there is a very strong correlation between the magnitude of your green/red arrow and your Damage Done and Kill Assists in that particular match.

(A few years back, I've read somewhere on this forum that there are "1000 points" between each tier, and the maximum that your up/down arrow can move in any one particular game is "20 points". But I have no way of testing this.)


REPORTED

#66 ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 08:32 PM

View Postpbiggz, on 15 November 2025 - 10:24 PM, said:

Im low end tier 3. You are having a temper tantrum.


you pondering coming back? Seems I read that somewhere. So you just post alot? or do you actually play? Funny one liners of deep thought,...seems like for such a veteran player you might not be that big of an *******,..but alas it seems you are.

Edited by ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, 27 November 2025 - 08:33 PM.


#67 ARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 08:35 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 06 November 2025 - 01:42 PM, said:

i take a lot of pride in getting kills above my tier or against mwowc players (rarer than headshots but it happens). i cant do that if all i fight are potatoes.


Thats a load of bull, you know your tier 1 dude cmon. 12k posts?! how long have you been playing?! You lying trolling scumbag

#68 Hawk819

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 08:38 PM

I couldn't care less about what Tier I am at. I just want to play; that's all.

#69 a 5 year old with an Uzi

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 11:03 PM

View PostARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 27 November 2025 - 08:26 PM, said:


ABSOLUTELY, THANK YOU



COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE



IM MID TIER THREE AND YOUR BEING A **** HEAD AND TROLLING



REPORTED

will you pass the f***ing green beans already and quit talking with your mouth full

#70 LordNothing

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Posted 27 November 2025 - 11:46 PM

View PostARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 27 November 2025 - 08:35 PM, said:


Thats a load of bull, you know your tier 1 dude cmon. 12k posts?! how long have you been playing?! You lying trolling scumbag


whine harder.

#71 foamyesque

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Posted 28 November 2025 - 12:44 AM

The one tweak I'd make to the MWO matchmaker would be to have it ignore tonnage classes and instead sort people into teams strictly based on their PSR, in an alternating A B B A fashion so that no team is systematically advantaged. You might get a team with a pile of assaults and one without, but at least the skill levels would, in theory, be more evenly matched between 'em.

Groups unfortunately throw a monkeywrench into that and I'm not entirely certain how I'd take those into account.

#72 LordNothing

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Posted 28 November 2025 - 01:35 AM

i figure just treat groups as individual players. not everyone who is in a group is good, or good at teamwork and their performance as a group would be baked into their psr. they would have a higher psr than a similar skilled player that does not employ teamplay skills or what their skill would be if they only dropped solo (you might track a second psr value for teamplay and use the one for how you are currently dropping, but thats more data for the backend). so you really dont have to do anything special. you just need to fill the same number of players on the other team with skill ratings similar to the group average.

im also not so concerned about tonnage either. as players will always run their preferred classes, and again their psr will reflect that. matching tonnage is a nice to have, but it should take a back seat to psr.

not sure if mm uses tier or the psr value itself. using the psr value makes more sense as the skill within a single tier can vary wildly, but it might be abstracted down to tier to speed things up.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 November 2025 - 01:38 AM.


#73 Drenzul

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Posted 28 November 2025 - 02:29 AM

View PostARMHOLD MUSCLEHOGGER, on 27 November 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:


you pondering coming back? Seems I read that somewhere. So you just post alot? or do you actually play? Funny one liners of deep thought,...seems like for such a veteran player you might not be that big of an *******,..but alas it seems you are.


Throwing insults isn't exactly a great way to show you aren't having a temper tantrum.





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