36 replies to this topic

[Shahadet]

Greetings fellow Mechwarriors!

So - I'm eager to give this game a try, as well as some other titles. One problem though - I need a machine to run it on, as my crappy Best buy laptop will not get the job done.

After reading lots of posts on the forum here, as well as many news articles and youtube vids, I've decided to take the plunge and try and build my own computer, purchasing parts from vendors (mainly NewEgg, but also will look at TigerDirect and Amazon).

Anyways, I will confess to still be way confused on what I should get, so I'll list my thoughts below, and see if any of it makes sense.

A little about me - I'm an older gamer who hasn't done any serious video gaming since Mechwarrior 2 and Starcraft. I avoided WoW and all the other games of its kind (Eve, WoT, etc). So, all the stuff you might assume about someone who is reading this forum - don't assume it about me. I'm a blank slate, trying to soak up as much info as possible, and spend my (hard-earned and hard-to-earn) cash as wisely as possible.

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1.) So the primary purpose of this machine will be gaming. However, I would like to be able to expand in the future, so the Motherboard should be robust and feature-filled enough to accomodate more parts (i.e., I'll start with 1 graphics card, but would like to add a 2nd some day, add more RAM for possible video editing projects in the future, etc)

2.) In a "planned obsolence" mode of system design, I would like to drop some decent dollars on a solid, well designed Full Size case that has lots of air cooling (to deal with a small stuffy apt), with the option to consider water cooling in the future. That way, when I decide to upgrade, I can switch out Mobos, drives, etc, while not having to buy a new case every 2 years.

3.) Like wise, I would like to drop some decent dollars on a PSU that not only will handle my initial system build, but can accomodate more parts (like that 2nd graphics card) in the future. After reading Vulpes post on PSUs, I'm convinced that modular will be the way to go. So again, I would like to not have to buy a new PSU every 2 years (if this is an unreasonable idea, please let me know why - I'm curious to know more).

4.) My initial budget will be in the $1200 to $1500 range. I don't need a monitor to begin with (have a single HP 23" LED that I picked up last November). I WILL need an OS.

5.) Just how important are "Gaming" keyboards and "Gaming" mice to having a good game experience? Can I get by with my regular wireless mouse and keyboard that I have right now? Is a headset (like the corsair Vengeance 1500) really necessary?

6.) Even after reading all the info I can find on Graphics cards, I'm still bewildered at what would make a solid choice for an intial build? With an eye towards doing SLI/Crossfire in the future.

7.) Intel or AMD? Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge? I'm leaning towards the i5-3570K Ivy Bridge at the moment, since that seems to be the consensus pick for value for the dollar, with an eye towards playing older single threaded games. But I'm willing to be swayed by arguments towards AMD. Also - I don't want to overclock to begin with. That said, does it make sense to get a better cooler now, for the day when I DO decide I want to overclock?

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So, enough blather. Here are some ideas that I've had - a critique would be greatly appreciated, and alternate builds would be awesome.:

Case: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811119239 (Cooler Master case - water cooling isn't a huge priority, USB 3.0 is a must get for future upgradeability/compatibility)

CPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115233 (Intel i5-3570)

PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182263 (80+ gold 650W enough for future builds? Or do I need a 750W or higher psu? Like this 850W cooler master? --> http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139015)

RAM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231461 (8 GB sniper ram to start)

GPU: (Totally lost here. The GTX 670 seems highly regarded by people. But is the 680 that much better of a card that the price makes it worth it? Are there other recommendations in terms of price point/performance)

HDD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148840 (1TB Seagate Barricuda)

Mobo: (Again, totally lost - much depends on the GPU I decide on. Need the most help here. In a pinch, I'd probablly go with Asus P8z77 V http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131820)

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If I can fit it into the budget, I'd like to get a SSD.

Well, that's it for now. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[DocBach]

Your build with the parts you have would be pretty fantastic.

[Vulpesveritas]

Here is an alternate AMD build with a keyboard and mouse, will be about as fast in multitasking and modern games, includes an SSD;

Also, given your plan to upgrade over time, AMD may be a better option.


Case; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147053
power supply: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182263
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131736
CPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819106010
GPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130787
(The 680 is not worth the price increase over the 670 in most cases, and the 7970 is only if you overclock or use GPGPU.)
RAM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820220561
SSD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820147134
HDD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822152185
ODD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827106333
OS: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832116986
Heatsink + TIM: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835103065
(worth $20 IMO for lower temps and far, far quieter operation, even if you don't OC.)
Keyboard: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16823129006
Mouse: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16826570014

And a mechanical keyboard is awesome. Generally a gaming mouse is nice, but neither is necessary.

[Todd Lee]

Everything in your build looks perfect, though I didn't see a heat sink listed. I would either go for:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835608018 I use this one personally.

or

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835106150

As for your PSU, you should be fine with the 750, I have a very similar build to yours except I'm using the Sabertooth Z77, and a Gigabyte GTX670, a Sound Blasted sound card (can't remember model atm) and it works perfectly fine. One cool thing about the Z77s (and Ivy Bridge processors) is that it gives your graphics card a rest when it isn't in use, and prioritizes your processor for generating graphics.

On a side note, the Gigabyte GTX 670 runs very quietly until your fan speed hits about 60%, then you can definitely start hearing it. As for your case, it's dead quiet and is loaded with filters, which is freaking wonderful. I wouldn't personally bother getting SLI, my 670 plays Witcher 2 with Ubersampling at a steady 60 fps (I always force vsync), and you can't find a game out there that can kill a graphics card more than MAYBE Crysis 2 with the texture pack. Idle my card runs at roughly 20 c, while in game it fluxuates between 50-60c (Witcher 2 with Ubersampling it can spike to 75). I generally allow MSI auto set my fan speeds, usually doesn't go any higher than 40%

I would never EVER recommend getting an SSD, they're a complete waste of money. All it does is load things a bit faster, but it isn't worth the money, at all. Wait for them to become main stream.

As for gaming keyboards, I keep hearing the term "ghosting" which basically means you can input multiple commands into a gaming keyboard without it skipping over them (in the event of lag), as opposed to a standard keyboard you can't.

As for your OS, just get the upgrade version of Windows 7. You can install it once, don't put in the CD key, then install it again on top of itself then input the CD key and it'll act like a full version.

[Vulpesveritas]

"It just makes things load faster... isn't worth the money..." well, at least in my opinion, especially at the op's price, given a SSD will have the most significant improvement in overall speed in day-to-day non-gaming tasks, OS load times, and load times in games, a $120 investment is worth it. But again, that's my opinion.

[Kurseval]

Todd Lee, on 31 July 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

As for your OS, just get the upgrade version of Windows 7. You can install it once, don't put in the CD key, then install it again on top of itself then input the CD key and it'll act like a full version.

Does this really work??

[I R O N Patriot]

Just keep in mind if you run less then 4 cores you will run hot! So have a descent cooling system in your case. Other wise you'll over heat after a few hours of play. Same thing goes for your video card. It better have a cooling system on it or it will also run hot. The only way you can run cool is over killing the parts you purchase. Like a 6+ core cpu, Dual video cards, 8+ gigs of ram and some rediculously over priced mother board. Cus if you try to make it affordable you will have an epic battle with heat!

Edited by Irontygr, 01 August 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Irontygr, on 01 August 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

Just keep in mind if you run less then 4 cores you will run hot! So have a descent cooling system in your case. Other wise you'll over heat after a few hours of play. Same thing goes for your video card. It better have a cooling system on it or it will also run hot. The only way you can run cool is over killing the parts you purchase. Like a 6+ core cpu, Dual video cards, 8+ gigs of ram and some rediculously over priced mother board. Cus if you try to make it affordable you will have an epic battle with heat!

What?

[Raven-kell]

I'm running a 8150 8 core AMD, with a cnps 9900 max. I love this CPU cooler!
I'll newegg my build.
Case: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811163185
MOBO: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131735
PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817153106
CPU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103960
CPU cooler: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835118054
HDD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820148530
VIDCARD: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814127594
Memory: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231560

around 1400 not including my 24" asus monitor.
Don't believe the hype against AMD 8 cores they are fine. runs this game and battlefield 3 awesomely.
that silverstone case is great ill never have to buy a new one and the mobo at the top makes it much cooler than standard placed mobo's.

Also now adays its almost impossible to place the wrong wiring connections in the wrong place. Biggest worry for new builders is the thermal paste to the cooler and you can youtube that.

Edited by DaveKell, 01 August 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Raven-kell]

Irontygr is saying if you go low end you will end up regretting it. large case means more airflow around components. ever looked in a mid tower gaming case? eww ! wires blocking everything cause there is not enough room to wire management right. which in turn makes the comp run hotter than it needs to be.
shah you can also get a version of win 7 x64 for like 99$ its home but unless you are running home networking and other technical things which I doubt you are its fine.
A decent gaming rig is usually around 1200$ I'm not talking about gaming rigs you find on Craigslist either.

[Markus Wilhelmsson]

OP: your budget should easily bag you a high-end system.

1.) Other then adding RAM , checking the amount of PCI slots "planning" for the future is really hard. buy for the now. get the best performance for money's worth of components.

2.) The CM-HAF series are really nice, some models are fairly tall in terms of height though. if have a 932 sat here and it's ~56CM's, you might also wanna prepare needing to do some maintenance in terms of vacuum'ing out dust once every few months, these cases have some serious air displacement (and suck in plenty of dust, your room will be clean though! )

3.) PSU wise, get a decent value for money one, check the 12 Volt rails, anything of a decent brand will do, 650Watt will suffice just fine even with 2 GPU's unless, obviously, you can get a 700 watt for a fraction more.

4.) O.S.: look for a windows 7 deal, lots of stuff popping up nowadays with low cost (20 bucks) windows 8 upgrades. 7 home premium should be fine.

5.) only advice i can give ya is: go to a shop and try some. investing in a gaming grade keyboard and mouse (which obviously will get used fairly often) is a good idea. if you're fine with the 23 inch LED in terms of size., keep it. LED prices are dropping anyways, could get a new one at a later point in time.

6.) GPU's are hard. personally i just check: http://www.tomshardw...iew,3107-5.html
nicely sorted into price categories, also has dual-card setup advice etc.

7.) this is imo personal, but intel still holds the bang-for-buck crown. i'd have to agree socket2011 is too pricey at the moment. most if not all brands bundle with custom overclocking/tuning software so you can sqeeze a few more Hz out of the CPU even with stock air cooling, it's not hardcore/difficult in any way, click a button > system tunes itself, and after a few reboots you'll be presented with a stable clock speed. if you are worried about noise values i'd stay away from water-cooling, water pumps are audible. (closed circuit CPU watercooling setup are cheap nowadays though, corsair has a nice selection)

might also seriously consider adding an SSD of at least 120Gb in there for your O.S. and most used games/programs .

Edited by TempestCP, 01 August 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

DaveKell, on 01 August 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Irontygr is saying if you go low end you will end up regretting it. large case means more airflow around components. ever looked in a mid tower gaming case? eww ! wires blocking everything cause there is not enough room to wire management right. which in turn makes the comp run hotter than it needs to be.
shah you can also get a version of win 7 x64 for like 99$ its home but unless you are running home networking and other technical things which I doubt you are its fine.
A decent gaming rig is usually around 1200$ I'm not talking about gaming rigs you find on Craigslist either.

Unless your shopping for really bad mid tower cases or living in 5 years ago, then that's false.

There are a great number of mid tower cases, that have cable management solutions and perform perfectly fine ventilation.

[DocBach]

Kurseval, on 01 August 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Does this really work??

yep, that's how I got my Windows Pro Upgrade disc for $50 from the Microsoft Student store to work.

[Raven-kell]

Might be personal preference tho, but I don't like having 1k worth of PC components in a little box.
Look at the size of gpu's nowadays..crazy. Also adding components becomes a issue.

[Barbaric Soul]

DaveKell, on 01 August 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Might be personal preference tho, but I don't like having 1k worth of PC components in a little box.
Look at the size of gpu's nowadays..crazy. Also adding components becomes a issue.

I don't seem to be having a problem.

Primary system-
CPU- 2600k OC'ed to 4.5ghz under a Corsair H60 with added fan for push/pull
MB- MSI Z68A GD80 gen3 ATX
GPU- two HD5870 in crossfireX
RAM- 2*4gig sticks
PSU- XFX X X X edition 750 watt semi-modular
Case- Lian Li V1200b PLUS II mid-tower

Secondary system
CPU- I7 860 stock under a Corsair A50
MB- Gigabyte P55 UD3R ATX
GPU- GTX560
RAM- 2*2gig sticks
PSU- PC Power and Cooling TurboCool 860
Case- NZXT Source 210 midtower case


Not the prettiest wireing, but the wires are not obstucting air-flow where air-flow is needed.

[Ironheart]

I'd suggest reading some hardware guides, Hardware-Revolution is tidy and clean and Tom's hardware guide has some great tips, too. Both have topics on building a PC for beginners. There are other sides that offer some great tips, too. I'm a little biased, cause I don't like most guides on here.

You should take the mouse and keyboard you like the best. The lower end sharkoon peripherals offer great value in my opinion.
But of course if you feel comfortable with your current one you can keep using it.
Headset is important if you want to communicate with other people. You could just buy a mic but other people will hear the echo from you speakers. The corsair Vengeance doesn't look so great. I'm using a Steelseries SIberia V2. I chose it over a Roccat 5.1 headset that was great, too. But positional audio works really well with standard headphones and surround headsets usually weight at least twice as much.
By the way, the quality of the mic is less important. Really good headphones (like AKG, Beyerdynamic) + a mic might be a good choice, too.

Don't forget to read reviews on your favorite high end case. Especially what people didn't like. Most of those that come included with anti-noise padding have some serious heat problems if you route the cables wrong. I even got one Antec case with a molten front panel USB cable.

650W are enough. To give you an idea my overclocked 2500k and Radeon 7850 use ~200W during Heavenbenchmark, and a overclocked 2550k with dual GTX 680 used somewhere around 500W. Both including fans, HDD, SSD, etc.

No watercooling is needed, especially if you don't plan to overclock, A good tower cooler provides plenty enough cooling and is quite. Just make sure to get one that is installable. My last one needed at least 2 persons. The stock cooler basically draws air from the side of the case which makes for a supoptimal airflow.

Edit: Although planned obsolesce is a problem I would not worry too much about it. Especially cases last a looooong time and PSU have in general a long manufacturer warranty and the good ones have higher quality components. For example my coolermaster silent pro m600 has a 5 year warranty.

Edited by Ironheart, 01 August 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[Raven-kell]

easy pesy when you only have one HD. I have much more mate. try that with 4 1tb and a ssd.

[The Revanchist]

I just built my first computer 2 months ago so I know how daunting it can be. The best advice I have for you is tripple check that all your parts are compatible. When I was selecting my parts I picked an LGA 1155 mobo but an LGA 2011 processer. I did not know that was something I needed to consider and it was only during my obsessive reading of part specs that I noticed someting was different and saved myself a lot of frustration. Glancing over your parts it looks like you are in good shape.

If you do go with an Intel processer I would recommend one of the Asus P8Z77 mother boards. All the ones I have looked at have lots of connectivity and the BIOS is very easy to use. One thing to consider is a number of the more expensive Asus mobos are compatible with an Asus Thunderbolt card that plugs into a PCI slot and a couple have a Thunderbolt port on them. Not sure if you care or if Thunderbolt will even be relavent in a year, but it is worth taking a moment to consider.

If you are not going to be overclocking and you buy a quality case cooling should not be a problem. Air cooling is more than sufficient for modern computer hardware, just make sure your case has holes for watercooling if you ever change your mind.

On the GPU front the research I have done shows the 670 and 680 are close in terms of performance. You will be paying $50 to $100 more for less than 10% performance increase. I used a 680 in my build and love it, but the only way I would recommend it to someone else over the 670 is if they absolutely want the best possible performance out of their card and do not care about the cost.

[Shahadet]

Hey guys - thank you much for all the great input! I will spend some time digesting all this info and will post an updated build spec for further review.

In the meantime, a couple of other issues that have cropped up in my head about being a first time builder/online game player:

1.) Electrostatic shock hazard - How do I go about avoiding frying my expensive components? Looking at the NewEgg youtube video, the guy just touches the case a couple of times. Is a Wrist Strap a better idea? And if so, where do you attach it? Isn't touching the case a bad idea once you have installed the Mobo with CPU? I've also heard the (myth?) that it's best to install the power supply and plug it in, so that you are taking advantage of the grounded electrical plug? This is one of those things that has me antsy about building my own system.

2.) The other thing that has me down right terrified is Thermal Paste. "Spreading Butter" ? Really? I have so many questions about this....a.) do you always apply the paste after the CPU is on the Mobo? If so, how do you avoid pressing down too hard? Is there such a thing as "too much paste"? Is it better to have a smooth, even, THIN layer of paste, or a thicker layer? When installing your CPU cooler, how do you make sure you have a solid, air-bubble-free contact, without pushing down too hard on the CPU? This one operation alone freaks me out more than all the other computer assembly issues put together.

3.) Playing online games - connection speed. I currently have a Verizon broadband connection, using the verizon supplied modem/router combo (i.e. the El Cheapo box freebie special). Does it make sense to upgrade this to a better modem and/or router? Or does it not make a difference, with the computer wired in directly (avoiding wi-fi issues)? (Side note/stupid question - all Mobos come with an Ethernet connection, right? Or do I need a separate ethernet card to hook up to the Internet?)

4.) The Headset/mic issue - is it REALLY prevalent or necessary to be able to talk to and hear your lance/company mates during the game? Considering the NDA, I'll use the WoW example - is it really necessary to be able to talk to other people using VOIP (?) during a "raid" ? Or is it more of a luxury?

----------

Preliminary thoughts I've had after reading all the material so far:

1.) I'll go with a gtx 670 (or radeon 7970 for $40 more), rather than splurge on a 680 that is much more expense for not so much more improvement.

2.) I'll probably try out the current $100 SSD samsung special on NewEgg that was mentioned in another thread - people seem very passionate and divided on the issue, and I think I'll get one just so I have my own empirical evidence and experience for future reference.

3.) After reading a ton of reviews and other literature, I'll probably stick with the Intel build. Huge thanks to Vulpes, but the pieces I could find on the Bulldozer architecture / Zambezi were just not encouraging at all, even taking into account "Intel fanboy-ism". However - I AM curious to hear what people think about this 8 core AMD chip ----> http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103960

4.) even with out overclocking, I've been convinced to get an aftermarket cooler. Quieter and cooler sound like two great things to me.

Thanks much again to all the great helpful posts (and on a side note to some of you - please take the SSD wars and case size wars to a different thread please!). I hope to have time to sit down and do more research and update my build spec tomorrow.

Good night !

[Vulpesveritas]

Shahadet, on 01 August 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hey guys - thank you much for all the great input! I will spend some time digesting all this info and will post an updated build spec for further review.

In the meantime, a couple of other issues that have cropped up in my head about being a first time builder/online game player:

1.) Electrostatic shock hazard - How do I go about avoiding frying my expensive components? Looking at the NewEgg youtube video, the guy just touches the case a couple of times. Is a Wrist Strap a better idea? And if so, where do you attach it? Isn't touching the case a bad idea once you have installed the Mobo with CPU? I've also heard the (myth?) that it's best to install the power supply and plug it in, so that you are taking advantage of the grounded electrical plug? This is one of those things that has me antsy about building my own system.

2.) The other thing that has me down right terrified is Thermal Paste. "Spreading Butter" ? Really? I have so many questions about this....a.) do you always apply the paste after the CPU is on the Mobo? If so, how do you avoid pressing down too hard? Is there such a thing as "too much paste"? Is it better to have a smooth, even, THIN layer of paste, or a thicker layer? When installing your CPU cooler, how do you make sure you have a solid, air-bubble-free contact, without pushing down too hard on the CPU? This one operation alone freaks me out more than all the other computer assembly issues put together.

3.) Playing online games - connection speed. I currently have a Verizon broadband connection, using the verizon supplied modem/router combo (i.e. the El Cheapo box freebie special). Does it make sense to upgrade this to a better modem and/or router? Or does it not make a difference, with the computer wired in directly (avoiding wi-fi issues)? (Side note/stupid question - all Mobos come with an Ethernet connection, right? Or do I need a separate ethernet card to hook up to the Internet?)

4.) The Headset/mic issue - is it REALLY prevalent or necessary to be able to talk to and hear your lance/company mates during the game? Considering the NDA, I'll use the WoW example - is it really necessary to be able to talk to other people using VOIP (?) during a "raid" ? Or is it more of a luxury?

----------

Preliminary thoughts I've had after reading all the material so far:

1.) I'll go with a gtx 670 (or radeon 7970 for $40 more), rather than splurge on a 680 that is much more expense for not so much more improvement.

2.) I'll probably try out the current $100 SSD samsung special on NewEgg that was mentioned in another thread - people seem very passionate and divided on the issue, and I think I'll get one just so I have my own empirical evidence and experience for future reference.

3.) After reading a ton of reviews and other literature, I'll probably stick with the Intel build. Huge thanks to Vulpes, but the pieces I could find on the Bulldozer architecture / Zambezi were just not encouraging at all, even taking into account "Intel fanboy-ism". However - I AM curious to hear what people think about this 8 core AMD chip ----> http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819103960

4.) even with out overclocking, I've been convinced to get an aftermarket cooler. Quieter and cooler sound like two great things to me.

Thanks much again to all the great helpful posts (and on a side note to some of you - please take the SSD wars and case size wars to a different thread please!). I hope to have time to sit down and do more research and update my build spec tomorrow.

Good night !

Sounds good. The FX-8150p is great for HPC work and encoding, as in those tasks it is only somewhat slower than an Intel i7. If gaming is your concern, the FX-4170 and FX-6200 are faster, as would an i5 of the same, or slightly higher price. Price / performance in gaming favors the FX-4170 and a number of AMD quad cores, but with older games will favor an Intel Pentium dual core. Above that if you're looking for pure performance, an i5 is the way to go while saving the $100 where you will see no difference whatsoever in gaming between it and the hyperthreaded versions AKA i7s.